DLR mudchute

[JeffMersey]

So every time i start my journey at Mudchute I always look at the siding and wonder if it is every used ? I see there is also a siding in the middle of the tracks in between Mudchute and Crossharbour. I wondered if anyone knew if they are ever used and what for ?

 

[bramling]

So every time i start my journey at Mudchute I always look at the siding and wonder if it is every used ? I see there is also a siding in the middle of the tracks in between Mudchute and Crossharbour. I wondered if anyone knew if they are ever used and what for ?

The Crossharbour siding was regularly used at one point, at certain times it was the regular terminus for the Stratford service. My memory is a little hazy, however at one point I think I’m right in saying it wasn’t possible for double-vehicle trains to reverse at Island Gardens due to the short platforms of the original viaduct terminus; at some point one of the platforms was extended but the second platform remained short until the end - the Crossharbour siding would have been essential at times for reversing double-vehicle trains.

I’m not really sure why the Mudchute siding was provided. There’s already a siding at Crossharbour for reversing. I seem to remember Mudchute siding went from a siding to a bay platform as part of the three-vehicle project. Again why this was done isn’t fully clear as it’s been seldom used.

It’s surprising just how many changes have been made to the DLR’s track layout over the years.

 

[JeffMersey]

Ah interesting . I am actually staying near mudchute due to the lockdown and I thought that i might have seen it used due to the reduced service of the DLR to make space at the depots but still it is always empty.
Thanks for the reply

 

[Smod]

I imagine it's mostly used to recover from disruptions. I recall seeing a Woolwich Arsenal to Mudchute train on such an occasion.

 

[popeter45]

2 years ago ended up on a train that terminated at mudchutes bay platform

 

[JeffMersey]

Ah ok , so it seems like it is just on random occasions that it is needed to be used

 

[bramling]

Ah ok , so it seems like it is just on random occasions that it is needed to be used

Seems to be the case. I’m not sure if there is anything booked to use it, but certainly usage is rare.

 

[Ianno87]

The Crossharbour siding was regularly used at one point, at certain times it was the regular terminus for the Stratford service. My memory is a little hazy, however at one point I think I’m right in saying it wasn’t possible for double-vehicle trains to reverse at Island Gardens due to the short platforms of the original viaduct terminus; at some point one of the platforms was extended but the second platform remained short until the end - the Crossharbour siding would have been essential at times for reversing double-vehicle trains.

I’m not really sure why the Mudchute siding was provided. There’s already a siding at Crossharbour for reversing. I seem to remember Mudchute siding went from a siding to a bay platform as part of the three-vehicle project. Again why this was done isn’t fully clear as it’s been seldom used.

It’s surprising just how many changes have been made to the DLR’s track layout over the years.

Seems to be the case. I’m not sure if there is anything booked to use it, but certainly usage is rare.

Presumably it and Crossharbour together provide an ability to maintain a decent service in the event of a problem within the tunnel - a single turnback alone would struggle.

ISTR around 2009 or so there was a regular Crossharbour-Stratford service before it was general cut to Canary Wharf-Stratford only off-peak.

 

[MikeWh]

Crossharbour was also the terminus when Mudchute/Island Gardens closed for the Lewisham extension to be built. Around that time I also recall that there was an entertainment venue (was it the London Arena) next to it. Not sure what happened to it, but maybe that was the reason for the turnback facility there.

 

[Taunton]

Mudchute was indeed initially a siding, but was rebuilt to a platform line when TfL concerns about tipping out terminating trains using sidings were at their height, which made the Crossharbour middle siding in a high frequency service with unstaffed platforms impractical. These sidings don't get used very much, but when they do, such as in disruption, the train can be in them for an extended period.

If you want overprovision of emergency arrangements on the DLR, look at the Beckton line. There a siding at Royal Victoria, a trailing crossover beyond there, a full scissors crossover beyond Custom House, and a facing crossover beyond Prince Regent, all in about a mile of line. Each of these was installed subsequent to the line being built, and each separately needed a full holiday weekend closure, such as over Easter, to introduce. There have been different combinations of using them for extra services to Excel, but now the pattern is to run any enhanced service right through to Beckton.

 

[MotCO]

I think the DLR was opened in bits. Was Mudshute ever an original terminus, pending an extension?

 

[MikeWh]

I think the DLR was opened in bits. Was Mudshute ever an original terminus, pending an extension?

No. It was the last but one station before the original southern terminus at Island Gardens. I think the original station may have been rebuilt when the line went underground because it was closed along with Island Gardens.

 

[edwin_m]

No. It was the last but one station before the original southern terminus at Island Gardens. I think the original station may have been rebuilt when the line went underground because it was closed along with Island Gardens.

Indeed it was. It's now on the ramp down to the tunnel portal but was originally elevated.

The surrounding area was and still is known as Millwall. I believe the football club was originally based there but the station was given a different name to avoid confusion by visitors and because the locals didn't want any part of the Millwall fans' reputation.

 

[bramling]

The surrounding area was and still is known as Millwall. I believe the football club was originally based there but the station was given a different name to avoid confusion by visitors and because the locals didn't want any part of the Millwall fans' reputation.

Interesting about the naming - indeed I always wondered where the Island Gardens name came from, as it's quite obscure. Of course, the original station on the approximate site was known as North Greenwich, just to confuse things a little more!

 

[Taunton]

The original DLR station names had one set in the proposal (you can find maps of the project somewhere) and then they determined to use names which the locals used, done by going round and asking.

Mudchute (our local park) is so named because it was formed on marshy ground out of all the mud dug out of Millwall Dock nearby when it was excavated, the mud being pumped along (novel at the time), and then tipped down a chute and spread. There used to be photographs of this operation in the Tower Hamlets library in Canary Wharf shopping centre. Island Gardens is the pleasant little green small park around the entrance to the foot tunnel, over the road from the original DLR terminus.

At the time, the locals were still very much old dockers or their descendants, all now moved on to another world. The names Millwall, and adjacent Cubit Town, have now fallen out of use locally.

There was an early 1980s TV drama series "Prospects" all set around Mudchute etc, which you can find on Youtube, which has some shots from when the initial DLR system was being built

 

[mark-h]

Around that time I also recall that there was an entertainment venue (was it the London Arena) next to it. Not sure what happened to it, but maybe that was the reason for the turnback facility there.

The London Arena, closed in 2005 due to lack of bookings/profits, the under construction O2 Arena would have prevented its owners investing in it further. The site is now residential.

 

[Taunton]

Crossharbour DLR was badged as Crossharbour and London Arena for a long time. The site is now occupied by, inevitably, Arena Tower, the huge 45-storey circular (sort-of) building on the inside of the DLR curve between South Quay and Crossharbour, alongside Millwall Dock, whose excavation led to the mud chute. Which is where we came in.

 

[Chris M]

Going back to the original question, Mudchute bay platform is currently only used during disruption, for extended layovers and to move failed units out of the way. It's also my local station and so I've caught trains to or from it a few times, but there isn't a regularly scheduled service. Part of this might be because the signalling doesn't allow a northbound train to enter the through platform while a train is entering or exiting the bay which causes a short delay. I don't remember ever seeing a train enter or exit the siding with a train fully bertherd in platform 2, but I don't know that this can't happen.
One of the options being considered for when the new trains are introduced is for the Stratford service to be extended to Mudchute until there are enough units to run to Lewisham all day.

The last time I saw Crossharbour siding in use was a couple of years ago when there was a rail grinder (or something like that) stabled there, presumably between overnight jobs.

 

[Ianno87]

Crossharbour DLR was badged as Crossharbour and London Arena for a long time. The site is now occupied by, inevitably, Arena Tower, the huge 45-storey circular (sort-of) building on the inside of the DLR curve between South Quay and Crossharbour, alongside Millwall Dock, whose excavation led to the mud chute. Which is where we came in.

The "...and London Arena" suffix survived for much longer than the Arena itself did!

 

[John Webb]

.....Only at Woolwich, no trolleybuses either side at Greenwich. London apparently never cracked trolleybus or tram wires over the dock lifting bridges on the Isle of Dogs and elsewhere.

There was one moving bridge trams used over Deptford Creek - but they were on the conduit system by then, which may have been easier to use than overhead wiring. Trolleybuses from North Woolwich went via the 1930s Silvertown Way which avoided the lifting bridges over the dock entrances.

 

[TheManWho]

The "headshunt" just outside of Crossharbour was used when the evening Stratford trains used to run through to Crossharbour. Service patterns were different 10 years ago, between the peaks, there was a 10 minute Bank to Lewisham service supplemented with a 10 minute Bank to Crossharbour service. It was also used to store a train during events at the London Arena before that was demolished.

The siding at Mudchute was used for service recovery or a somewhere to stick a failed train. During the 3-car upgrade works, the old Mudchute siding was converted into a Platform (Platform 3) and is used pretty regularly during disruptions on the Lewisham route.

There are other sidings around the DLR network located at:
- Tower Gateway
- Stratford (lower level)
- Royal Victoria
- Canning Town

 

[TheManWho]

The "...and London Arena" suffix survived for much longer than the Arena itself did!

There was one unit, up until recently, that still announced it at Crossharbour and London Arena.

 

[JeffMersey]

Oh very interesting. Thanks for the history . And is it the same for the other sidings you mentioned ? Only used for disruptions etc

 

[TheManWho]

Oh very interesting. Thanks for the history . And is it the same for the other sidings you mentioned ? Only used for disruptions etc

It really depends on the location, the siding at Crossharbour would be used mainly during disruptions, as it can be accessed from both tracks. The sidings at Tower Gateway and Royal Victoria would generally be used to store failed trains- the one at Royal Victoria also has an area to store engineering vehicles and still allow it to be used by normal trains.

 

[rebmcr]

The "headshunt" just outside of Crossharbour was used when the evening Stratford trains used to run through to Crossharbour. Service patterns were different 10 years ago, between the peaks, there was a 10 minute Bank to Lewisham service supplemented with a 10 minute Bank to Crossharbour service. It was also used to store a train during events at the London Arena before that was demolished.

The siding at Mudchute was used for service recovery or a somewhere to stick a failed train. During the 3-car upgrade works, the old Mudchute siding was converted into a Platform (Platform 3) and is used pretty regularly during disruptions on the Lewisham route.

There are other sidings around the DLR network located at:
- Tower Gateway
- Stratford (lower level)
- Royal Victoria
- Canning Town

Where's the one at Canning Town?

 

[TheManWho]

Where's the one at Canning Town?

As the train leaves Canning Town upper level towards Woolwich Arsenal, just after the points that lead to the viaduct that heads off towards Beckton, there is another set of points. Can be accessed from the northern end end from the tracks heading towards Woolwich, and from the southern end from the tracks coming down from West Silvertown. Officially classified on the network as a siding.

 

[rebmcr]

As the train leaves Canning Town upper level towards Woolwich Arsenal, just after the points that lead to the viaduct that heads off towards Beckton, there is another set of points. Can be accessed from the northern end end from the tracks heading towards Woolwich, and from the southern end from the tracks coming down from West Silvertown. Officially classified on the network as a siding.

Ah, sneaky!

Thanks