DLR - PSA. How often are PSA called on to drive or control the train?

Discussion in 'Other Public Transport' started by mrg9999, 19 Dec 2018.

  1. mrg9999

    mrg9999 New Member

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    I don't travel much on the DLR anymore, about twice a month off peak. I usually try and sit at the front. Almost Every time in the last 6 months I have been asked to move by the PSA so he can control the train.

    Are there any publicly available stats about how often PSA take control per day / week? The helpful chap I spoke to said it was several times a day (for him), especially during the summer when the signalling was on the blink.
     
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  3. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    Operating the doors from the front (for which you'll be asked to move) is very common.

    Driving the train, much less so.
     
  4. Busaholic

    Busaholic Established Member

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    My travels on the DLR are much less than yours, even, but always offpeak and, over the years, I've come across them being driven several times, but not usually by necessity.
     
  5. theking

    theking Member

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    Sit on the right hand side to avoid being moved
     
  6. Mojo

    Mojo Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    Are you sure they are driving the train as opposed to just operating the doors?

    Driving the trains manually is at very slow speed and consequently it would probably be noticed by customers as the speed of the train would be much lower than normal.
     
  7. philthetube

    philthetube Established Member

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    As I understand it they only drive in the case of signal failure, or possibly train defect and then run line of sight with special rules for switches/points. Normally what you see will be, as Mojo said, them operating the doors from the front.
     
  8. pdeaves

    pdeaves Established Member

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    It seems from my experience of not being in East London very often that actual driving happens quite frequently on the Beckton branch. I expect it's rostered in for the crew to keep competencies up to date.
     
  9. Ianno87

    Ianno87 Established Member

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    Done during station closures too; one day some while ago Blackwall station was closed. Driver manually took over on approach to 'override' the station stop, then gave back control afterwards.
     
  10. JoeGJ1984

    JoeGJ1984 Member

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    Can the trains operate without the PSAs doing anything? (I think they always have to be on board though). Do they always have to do the doors?
     
  11. MarkyT

    MarkyT Established Member

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    I think a PSA must be aboard to operate doors whenever a train is in passenger service although there is a method to dispatch an empty train to and from a reversing or stabling siding without someone aboard.
     
  12. bramling

    bramling Established Member

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    There’s two manual driving modes. One which allows normal speed and is fully protected by the signalling system. And a second mode where speed is severely limited and is unprotected - designed for use during failures.

    The first mode would be used if there’s any reason ATO can’t be used, or occasionally for train captains to keep their hand in. I’m not sure if DLR require this for when staff are working on the track.

    The second mode would be used during failures, so any time the system can’t issue a limit of movement authority to the vehicle. So basically when signalling apparatus has failed. Movement authority would come from the signalman verbally, on a point to point basis.

    That’s the basis of it - my knowledge of the system is more skewed to its application on LU where procedures are naturally different but the basic equipment and technical setup is similar. Someone familiar with DLR rules would have to comment on their operating procedures, though I do have an operating manual gathering dust somewhere!
     
  13. VT 390

    VT 390 Member

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    If you sit on the right side you will not have to move.
     
  14. TBSchenker

    TBSchenker Member

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    I was sat at the front once when the staff member came to manually drive it . He explained there was cranes working close to the Railway and it was a safety requirement to make sure the line was safe . It was only between two stations and then it was back into auto .
     
  15. Taunton

    Taunton Established Member

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    Doing the doors from the front position on this, my local line, is more common in the winter - described as "it's much warmer up here". Often described as "driving", even by staff, but is actually not, just pressing door closed. Rest as normal.

    Unfortunately doing so led to this serious passenger accident

    https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/dangerous-train-door-incident-at-bank-station

    where the passenger was trapped at the frontmost door, right next to where the operator was seated. Afterwards doing the doors from the front was banned at Bank. But not elsewhere.

    The operator will also come to the front panel if there are reports of issues on the line, engineering works alongside, etc. They also do so on empty trains nonstop through intermediate stations, to blow the horn at each on approach.

    If the ATO fails (not often) the train can be manually driven, but this is now a tedious process involving lengthy radio messages to control, and going no faster than a walking pace, with flashing lights at the ends of the car. This was introduced after the second collision during manual driving.
     
  16. philthetube

    philthetube Established Member

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    It was not operating the doors from the front which led to this incident, it was incorrectly an aligned mirror which did not have the front doors in its view, operating from the front does give anyone falling tonto the track a better chance.
     
  17. Taunton

    Taunton Established Member

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    Not so. There was no reason for the operator to be working from the front seat instead of their normal position at the doors. And people "falling on the track" has never been identified as a DLR issue in all the years it has operated, and indeed operating from that position at Bank has now been banned. If the CCTV did not show the front doors, what was to stop the operator turning round to look; they are only a couple of feet away from where they were sat.

    I did comment more at the time of the RAIB report
    Dangerous train door incident at Bank station Feb. 2017
     
    Last edited: 24 Dec 2018
  18. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    There is, conversely, no reason for the operator to be working from the door position instead of from the front seat. It was the platform setup at Bank that caused the problem, not the practise of front seat operation which was nothing more than a coincidental factor.
     
  19. Taunton

    Taunton Established Member

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    Why did the DLR immediately ban this practice at Bank then?

    Paragraph 87 in the Accident Report. Which also states that if they had not done so, the RAIB would have instructed them to do it.
     
    Last edited: 24 Dec 2018
  20. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    At Bank, not at any other station. If the problem was with operation from the front, it would have been banned at all stations.

    The problem is not with operation from the front, therefore it was banned only at Bank.
     
  21. Taunton

    Taunton Established Member

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    The accident report just shows a sloppy approach developed all round. Which, as I said in comments to the previous, linked post, had become increasingly apparent since the present operating franchisee, chosen of course on the basis of being bottom bidder, had taken over.

    How on earth all the supposedly professional, highly trained, well paid operators, let alone their management, can not have noticed that the front doors of the train were not covered by the CCTV just astounds me. It was the very first thing I noticed about the photograph in the Accident Report, and I'm just a DLR passenger. The mid-car destination display is quite apparently right at the front of the image, demonstrating that half the car is cut off. Of course, the majority of operators would not have noticed the shortfall in view from the front seat, as they would have been correctly operating from the doors. But the CCTV screen is visible to all.

    I've been on the DLR this morning, on the open section. There has been a heavy dew overnight and the mirrors provided at my station for operation from the front were completely unusable as a result.
     
  22. rebmcr

    rebmcr Established Member

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    Agreed.

    Do you mean "correctly" in general, or in context of the aforementioned fault?
     
  23. philthetube

    philthetube Established Member

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    If you look at the image specifically checking the doors you notice the doors, if you are, as you should be, concentrating on the lady with a push chair and 2 kids you dont go, 1 2 3 4 etc, ah yes, this train has the correct number of doors, you trust that the equipment is set up correctly and do your job accordingly.
     

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