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DMUs hauling freight/parcels vehicles

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Cowley

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Hello folks. I'm wondering if anyone has any memories or even photographic evidence of DMU mixed trains that they've seen in the 70s or early 80s?
I definitely remember seeing them with a parcels van in tow a couple of times when I was very young. Would they have ever had a milk tanker or other freight vehicle(s) attached does anyone know?
I'm hoping more for West Country memories but interested in anything else too...
Any information much appreciated.
 
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Ash Bridge

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No photos sadly, but I can remember back in the early seventies on weekday evenings sometime between 21:30-22:30 a Gloucester DPU (were they Class 128?) regularly passed by here (Ash Bridge) hauling a couple of CCT or other 4-wheel vans or perhaps a GUV occasionally. In later years if I'm recalling correctly I'm sure Cravens class 105 units also appeared, I was lead to believe that this was a Stockport to Manchester Victoria working? Maybe lasting until the early 80s, never saw anything other than parcels vans behind one though.
 

Cowley

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No photos sadly, but I can remember back in the early seventies on weekday evenings sometime between 21:30-22:30 a Gloucester DPU (were they Class 128?) regularly passed by here (Ash Bridge) hauling a couple of CCT or other 4-wheel vans or perhaps a GUV occasionally. In later years if I'm recalling correctly I'm sure Cravens class 105 units also appeared, I was lead to believe that this was a Stockport to Manchester Victoria working? Maybe lasting until the early 80s, never saw anything other than parcels vans behind one though.

Thanks Mr Bridge. Go on I bet you've got a photo somewhere in that collection of yours... (can't find a smiley face to add)
 

AndrewE

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I never actually saw one, but the working timetable had a timing option of D1(T) for a DMU with tail traffic. You/I/we would have to look in an old Sectional Appendix to see what trailing load would have been allowed.
 

Taunton

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I was reminded only earlier today, passing the scene, of leaving Carlisle southbound in the mid-1970s parallel with a 108 headed for West Cumbria with a long wheelbase 4w van in tow. It was only a power-trailer unit, so only 300hp, which must have been a bit challenging with the extra vehicle.

The WR in early dmu days used to tack a normal passenger coach, generally a GWR Hawksworth SK, on the back of a set for extra capacity, but this was typically on the rear of a 6-car formation which already had four power cars. This is separate to the more permanent adaptation and reliverying of a few of these vehicles to run within a set.

I recall a picture in Train Illustrated (Modern Railways predecessor) of a pair of W55xxx single unit power cars on the Saltash-Plymouth local service, the normal formation on that service at the time, crossing the Saltash bridge with two milk tankers in tow.
 

341o2

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what became classes 128 and 129 were DMU parcel vans, some members of class 114 were converted as well
 

Cowley

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I recall a picture in Train Illustrated (Modern Railways predecessor) of a pair of W55xxx single unit power cars on the Saltash-Plymouth local service, the normal formation on that service at the time, crossing the Saltash bridge with two milk tankers in tow.

This was the scene I was thinking of and thought that I'd seen somewhere. I can't find photos of it anywhere though.

Thanks for all the replies so far. Interesting stuff.
 

Saltleyman

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At Saltley we used to work a Birmingham New street to Reading Dmu (Mon-Fri) which conveyed a parcels van every night (usually a GUV) It left New Street at about 9.00 pm.
 

scarby

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The York-Scarborough "mail train" was a DMU hauling some kind of GUV/bogie van.

Typical timings in the 1970s were dep York 04.25, arr Scarborough 05.29, which included a 10-minute stop at Malton.

It returned from Scarborough 20.00, arr York 20.58.

These were advertised passenger services.

As I recall, the van would be shunted off on arrival at Scarborough and then after DMU had departed again it was deposited in platform 3 where it stood all day until its departure. Some time shortly before 20.00 the outgoing mail was loaded on - whether other mail was loaded at all during the course of the day, I can't remember.

Presumbaly there must have been many other similar workings on other branch lines.

If you do a search on Google such as - DMU hauling GUV - there are several pages and images.
 

Bevan Price

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Back in the 1960s, I was on a train between Didcot & Reading when we overtook a bubblecar towing a few wagons (engineering spoil, I think.)

Also in the 1960s, the last Liverpool Lime St. - Wigan NW local each weekday used to haul one parcels van (cannot remember if it was a bogie van or a 4 / 6 wheel van. This service had been one of the last steam-worked passenger trains on that line - several years after most of the other trains became dmu.
 

randyrippley

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I've got a vague memory of seeing a 4-wheel van behind a bubble car at Maiden Newton with milk churns, on the Bridport branch. Would have been early 1960's. My guess is it would have been towed to Pen Mill when the bubble went off to Westbury for stabling, and then shunted to the creamery at Bunford - which had a siding on the Yeovil-Taunton line. It never seemed to be towed by the Bristol-Weymouth cross-country sets, though they DID tow GW non-corridor coaches - maximum I can remember is two behind a six car cross country formation.
At that time milk was still collected at other local stations in churns
 

theblackwatch

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what became classes 128 and 129 were DMU parcel vans, some members of class 114 were converted as well

Sadly the 128s were contaminated with asbestos and all went for scrap in the early 90s. One of the converted 114s has been preserved at Butterley, but has been repainted into BR blue - see http://preserved.railcar.co.uk/Images/114/50015-2014-03-02-Zoe-Hunter.jpg . I think in parcels service they carried Red Star parcels (blue with a red stripe) and Royal Mail (red/yellow) liveries.
 

30907

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I've got a vague memory of seeing a 4-wheel van behind a bubble car at Maiden Newton with milk churns, on the Bridport branch. Would have been early 1960's. My guess is it would have been towed to Pen Mill when the bubble went off to Westbury for stabling, and then shunted to the creamery at Bunford - which had a siding on the Yeovil-Taunton line. It never seemed to be towed by the Bristol-Weymouth cross-country sets, though they DID tow GW non-corridor coaches - maximum I can remember is two behind a six car cross country formation.
At that time milk was still collected at other local stations in churns

Thanks, it's an examlle I didnt know of. As late as 1963 the branch was still operated from Weymouth. The first train went down as goods and back as mixed and IIRC was still hauled. There was also still freight and parcels on the main line, so my guess (and it's only that!) is that the van would be tail load on the branch and then attached to a parcels or freight.

The one I was aware of is the Barnstaple line, into the mid 70s, which is referenced in the linked article.
 

30907

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Additional unpowered luggage vans were sometimes sandwiched between the MLV and passenger accommodation on South Eastern boat trains.
And indeed MLVs sometimes ran solo a tail load as parcels trains. Generally EMUs (and DEMUs) couldn't do so, being EP-braked.
 

High Dyke

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I remember seeing the early morning DMU from Boston arrive at Grantham with a van attached during the late 70's. A van was always shunted to the bay in an evening for attachment.

I can't post the link, but i have seen a picture of a unit shunting a van in the yard at Stamford station. Try a search for it.
 

yorksrob

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And indeed MLVs sometimes ran solo a tail load as parcels trains. Generally EMUs (and DEMUs) couldn't do so, being EP-braked.

Ah yes, and come to think of it, I remember seeing a picture of a couple of them hauling some tankers full of water from a BR owned well during one of those never-ending hosepipe bans in the 1990's. It was in the Railway Magazine.
 

Cowley

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Ah yes, and come to think of it, I remember seeing a picture of a couple of them hauling some tankers full of water from a BR owned well during one of those never-ending hosepipe bans in the 1990's. It was in the Railway Magazine.

And they say water and electric don't mix...
 

RichmondCommu

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Apologies for not having seen this earlier. I have a picture taken on the 27.4.73 at Southall which shows W50862 and W50915 coupled to two parcels vans. One van is sandwiched between the two driving cars and appears to be a standard BR bogie GUV vehicle. The other van appears to be a Southern Railway four wheeled van. I hope this is of interest!
 

Shimbleshanks

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I seem to remember reading a report about container wagons being tacked on to the end of Northern Ireland Railways DeMUs back in the early 1970s.
 

RichmondCommu

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Having had a further search through my collection of photos / reference books this evening I've unearthed some more information on the class 116 vehicles W50872 and W50915. From what I've been able to ascertain two class 116 units were converted in 1967 with their centre trailers removed and replaced with a GUV. The two set numbers were L341 and L342 and they were transferred from Cardiff when they were converted. I can only assume that they were then either based at Southall or Reading. Another picture taken on the 2.7.75 shows the two 116 vehicles with a BR CCT and an ex LMS BG in tow. W50872 and W50915 appear to have lost their seats and the words Parcels Service are applied to the centre of each powered vehicle.
 

Taunton

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Having had a further search through my collection of photos / reference books this evening I've unearthed some more information on the class 116 vehicles W50872 and W50915. From what I've been able to ascertain two class 116 units were converted in 1967 with their centre trailers removed and replaced with a GUV.
This was featured in magazines of the era. The two power cars were stripped internally, and two GUVs with through wiring inserted between them. It seems to have lasted as such for a while.

I seem to remember reading a report about container wagons being tacked on to the end of Northern Ireland Railways DEMUs back in the early 1970s.
This was what was probably the most significant use of multiple units for freight service. NIR (in fact back when it was UTA) built a fleet of units themselves, the MPDs, converted from carriages, with substantial 275hp engines and automatic transmissions. Like other Ulster units they were regarded as loose stock with variable formations of power cars and trailers, in fact hardly two sets were marshalled the same, and one task was to remarshall two power cars together each evening and use them effectively as locomotives on the overnight Belfast to Londonderry freight service, hauling freight wagons. There wasn't much freight service left on the system by this time, so they sufficed. They were re-engined after some years, it was said that this arduous overnight operation of them had badly affected both engines and gearboxes of the cars. Being automatics, slight differences in the settings of the gear controls could lead to them climbing gradients with different cars in different gears.
 

PeterC

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I seem to remember reading a report about container wagons being tacked on to the end of Northern Ireland Railways DeMUs back in the early 1970s.
I hadn't kept my railway magazines from that period but I have a recollection of a photo of that as well as one of a wagon attached to a DMU in Scotland.
 

Cowley

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Great stuff folks. The one that really made me sit up was the pair of Bubble Cars hauling milk tankers across the Tamar Bridge, though I can't seem to find any photos of those trains online unfortunately.
It seems like there were quite a few areas in the country where it wasn't uncommon to find DMUs pulling parcels vans or even the odd freight wagon.
 

Shimbleshanks

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This was featured in magazines of the era. The two power cars were stripped internally, and two GUVs with through wiring inserted between them. It seems to have lasted as such for a while.


This was what was probably the most significant use of multiple units for freight service. NIR (in fact back when it was UTA) built a fleet of units themselves, the MPDs, converted from carriages, with substantial 275hp engines and automatic transmissions. Like other Ulster units they were regarded as loose stock with variable formations of power cars and trailers, in fact hardly two sets were marshalled the same, and one task was to remarshall two power cars together each evening and use them effectively as locomotives on the overnight Belfast to Londonderry freight service, hauling freight wagons. There wasn't much freight service left on the system by this time, so they sufficed. They were re-engined after some years, it was said that this arduous overnight operation of them had badly affected both engines and gearboxes of the cars. Being automatics, slight differences in the settings of the gear controls could lead to them climbing gradients with different cars in different gears.

I guess there is a long tradition of using railcars (if not multiple units) for freight service in Ireland. I also recall reading that the County Donegal Railways had special lightweight freight wagons that were hauled by its railcar fleet.
I suppose units like the MPDs are really a cross between a railcar and a locomotive.
 

delt1c

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Apologies for not having seen this earlier. I have a picture taken on the 27.4.73 at Southall which shows W50862 and W50915 coupled to two parcels vans. One van is sandwiched between the two driving cars and appears to be a standard BR bogie GUV vehicle. The other van appears to be a Southern Railway four wheeled van. I hope this is of interest!
There were a couple of GUVS adapted by the WR with Blue square MU wiring to work with DMU's.
Also in the 70's it was common to see a Fish van coupled to the rear of the 120's on the Inverness Aberdeen services
 
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