Do any Heritage Railways ever get fare evaders?

[swt class 450]

Just curious if fare evasion ever happens on Heritage Railways? Is anyone aware of this happening on any of them?

There are some Heritage Railways that use the very old compartment stock without corridors (where there is no way to walk between compartments without alighting from the train and boarding at another door) which would certainly make fare evasion very easy and simple.

Are there any enthusiasts that try to get a free ride or refuse to pay? Or are there even any ordinary non enthusiasts using it as public transport that fare evade?

I would be interested to hear anyone's experiences and views about this and if you have ever seen it happen. We always hear about fare evasion on National Rail so it would be interesting to know if Heritage Railways ever have this problem as well.

 

[Journeyman]

Just curious if fare evasion ever happens on Heritage Railways? Is anyone aware of this happening on any of them?

There are some Heritage Railways that use the very old compartment stock without corridors (where there is no way to walk between compartments without alighting from the train and boarding at another door) which would certainly make fare evasion very easy and simple.

Are there any enthusiasts that try to get a free ride or refuse to pay? Or are there even any ordinary non enthusiasts using it as public transport that fare evade?

I would be interested to hear anyone's experiences and views about this and if you have ever seen it happen. We always hear about fare evasion on National Rail so it would be interesting to know if Heritage Railways ever have this problem as well.

I've often wondered about this, but I've never seen it happen - I think there's a range of reasons why it doesn't.

• Passengers are usually all enthusiasts, tourists, families etc. A lot of fare evasion is mixed up with antisocial behaviour and people trying to get free rides to work. Very few heritage railways are actually much use as a mode of public transport.
• A lot of fare evasion happens in the evenings, when most heritage railways don't operate.
• Although a number of heritage railways operate non-corridor stock, it's not used all that often on most of them, with the Mark 1 being a staple, and there's usually a guard patrolling the vehicles.
• Stations on a lot of heritage railways still have manned ticket checking booths.

Even if people did get away with it, is it actually "fare evasion" on a heritage railway? Do these still come under the same forms of regulation?

 

[JohnR]

When I was a guard on my local heritage railway, I did encounter someone who, could be classed as a fare evader (though he did eventually cough up).

I was going through the train, checking tickets, when one passenger said he didnt need one, as he had paid his council tax! When I questioned him, he said that as the railway was funded by the Council, he had already contributed, and he assumed tickets were just for holidaymakers! It seems he had seen a notice about a grant the council had given us for some fencing, and assumed the whole railway was funded by them! How he then got to the idea that it meant council tax payers didnt need a ticket I never got a satisfactory explanation for.....

 

[kje7812]

I've personally not encountered anyone trying it but have heard from a colleague about someone trying to have a free ride by doing short trips. Extra care with ticket checks help avoid this.
By far, the closest thing I've encountered is people sitting in first class saying they didn't realise it was first class (or they didn't think we did it), despite there being usually at least 2 notices in compartment (traditional style and more modern) stating it is first.
Then again you get some people who automatically assume that compartments are first class and then you had to point that some are but the rest aren't.

 

[Shrewbly]

I only travel on heritage lines a couple of times a year with the family but, although I have never seen any out and out fare evasion, a couple of years ago we heard a large group openly discussing their borrowing, swapping and general passing around of annual passes. Those passes have now been much increased in price (and I believe also need a photo on them), so I suspect the railway was aware of the problem and has nipped it in the bud.

 

[kje7812]

I only travel on heritage lines a couple of times a year with the family but, although I have never seen any out and out fare evasion, a couple of years ago we heard a large group openly discussing their borrowing, swapping and general passing around of annual passes. Those passes have now been much increased in price (and I believe also need a photo on them), so I suspect the railway was aware of the problem and has nipped it in the bud.

Indeed they were! (I'd half forgotten this)
And the same will be occurring with shareholder passes soon as well.

 

[Journeyman]

By far, the closest thing I've encountered is people sitting in first class saying they didn't realise it was first class (or they didn't think we did it), despite there being usually at least 2 notices in compartment (traditional style and more modern) stating it is first.
Then again you get some people who automatically assume that compartments are first class and then you had to point that some are but the rest aren't.

It's not surprising that this causes a bit of confusion, as the policy on first class does vary a lot - some railways charge extra for it, some don't, and if you're not familiar with rail travel generally, I can see there's scope for not knowing what the arrangements are.

 

[steevp]

Attempted fare evasion was mentioned on the TV series last year about the NYMR - not rife, but certainly not unknown

 

[BanburyBlue]

Out of interest, and potentially a stupid question, how would fare evasion be dealt with on a heritage railway? Do the railways regulations and laws still apply? Or would it be a purely civil matter? Or fraud/theft etc?

 

[Cowley]

Out of interest, and potentially a stupid question, how would fare evasion be dealt with on a heritage railway? Do the railways regulations and laws still apply? Or would it be a purely civil matter? Or fraud/theft etc?

Hopefully some kind of heritage justice solution...
A burly policeman steps onboard and marches them by the ear into the back of a Morris Minor panda car.

 

[Bertie the bus]

It definitely happens on preserved railways. A few years ago for a diesel gala at a heritage railway they decided to issue stickers you put on your jacket as well as tickets so the ticket inspector could immediately see who had a ticket. It wasn’t repeated the next year and when I asked why I was told it was curious how in some groups an equal number of people had lost either their ticket or sticker.

 

[leezer3]

Absolutely, no question about it.

Come to any gala, and you'll get a good proportion of chancers.
A decent amount of them will have been drinking too.

Not a lot you can really do about it, but there's usually a copper or two coming through every once in a while for any major event, who the RO will nab if things get really nasty.

Trespassers are also depressingly common lineside / on neighbouring land at galas.
Again, not a lot you can really do about them unless they're being seriously unsafe, which might get a couple of staff coming out from the nearest station or the service stopping for the crew to have a word, but even then the attitude of most of these isn't clever.

It's just the way things are, unfortunately some people are fools

 

[cav1975]

Out of interest, and potentially a stupid question, how would fare evasion be dealt with on a heritage railway? Do the railways regulations and laws still apply? Or would it be a purely civil matter? Or fraud/theft etc?

Not at all a silly question. The law is the same as used by the national railway - the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 applies and can be supplemented by the railway's own byelaws.

As far as we know we don't get many fare evaders on the Isle of Wight despite using 100% non corridor stock. Comprehensive ticket checks are made at Havenstreet, with supplementary checks for first class compartments when appropriate, to ensure this. What does still happen is customers leaving the railway part way through the day may pass their all day tickets to others in the car park but there is little we can do about that.

Perhaps fortunately we don't do many galas..........

 

[Belperpete]

So far, I have not yet come across a case where someone without a ticket has not coughed up when confronted. Most of the cases are not usually outright deliberate evasion, but more often unintentional, e.g. where someone thinks that their TOC rover is valid, or are unaware that there is a supplement for first class. The most difficult cases usually involve members, e.g. where a member joins the train without obtaining their free ticket, meaning that a member of the public who has bought a ticket can't get on, or where a member travels on a service that has been clearly advertised as one where free travel is restricted. I am afraid I have little sympathy for people who claim to be supporters behaving in this way.

 

[underbank]

It's something that crossed my mind on a Boxing Day mince pie special when I got my ticket inspected both directions. Got me thinking - I don't think I've ever not been ticket-inspected on a heritage line - it's become a habit that I keep my ticket in an outside pocket as I'm expecting it to be looked at. That's something I never do on a proper railway as ticket inspections are rare here in Northern land, so I usually leave it in my wallet. I certainly think they're a lot keener, but then again, fare income is vitally important to heritage lines.

 

[kje7812]

It's something that crossed my mind on a Boxing Day mince pie special when I got my ticket inspected both directions. Got me thinking - I don't think I've ever not been ticket-inspected on a heritage line - it's become a habit that I keep my ticket in an outside pocket as I'm expecting it to be looked at. That's something I never do on a proper railway as ticket inspections are rare here in Northern land, so I usually leave it in my wallet. I certainly think they're a lot keener, but then again, fare income is vitally important to heritage lines.

Also on most lines (though I think not all), Ticket Inspectors and Guards are separate so unlike the mainline where you often only have one on-train crew who has to do the roles of both, heritage railways will have 2 people if not more. Of course, being mainly run by volunteers helps to provide the numbers.

 

[pdeaves]

Of course, being mainly run by volunteers helps to provide the numbers.

and most of the volunteers are there for the fun of riding the train and meeting the public. I suppose not primarily there to check tickets but be a 'public face' and provide the 'journey experience', of which ticket checks are just a part.

 

[mushroomchow]

It definitely happens on preserved railways. A few years ago for a diesel gala at a heritage railway they decided to issue stickers you put on your jacket as well as tickets so the ticket inspector could immediately see who had a ticket. It wasn’t repeated the next year and when I asked why I was told it was curious how in some groups an equal number of people had lost either their ticket or sticker.

Can't say I'm surprised - diesel bashers certainly have a rep as the worst faredodging offenders from my experience.

That said, it would have easily been dealt with using a stamp on the hand instead of a sticker.

 

[Spartacus]

Can't say I'm surprised - diesel bashers certainly have a rep as the worst faredodging offenders from my experience.

That said, it would have easily been dealt with using a stamp on the hand instead of a sticker.

Until you wash your hands... 'I spilt beer all over so I needed a good wash, here's my beer soaked ticket to prove it'.... Frankly I dislike stamps anyway so would be inclined to wash it off.

I can't say I've ever encountered genuine fare evaders, more chancers who will pay if asked but purposefully do gala afternoons when there's usually far less chance of being gripped. All of those probably contribute far more than the fare behind the buffet counter anway!

I've great sympathy with those who end up in 1st class when a supplement is payable but not realising it, I've done it myself, it was the first time I'd ever encountered that for anything other than a saloon or pullman, and I've been on lines where a supplement isn't payable to travel in those too.

 

[underbank]

I've great sympathy with those who end up in 1st class when a supplement is payable but not realising it, I've done it myself, it was the first time I'd ever encountered that for anything other than a saloon or pullman, and I've been on lines where a supplement isn't payable to travel in those too.

Yes, I wish the heritage railways would properly publicise their first class position - some are secretive to say the least with no mention on their ticket price webpage.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Indeed they were! (I'd half forgotten this)
And the same will be occurring with shareholder passes soon as well.

That's interesting, I shall have to check that.

 

[STEVIEBOY1]

Hopefully some kind of heritage justice solution...
A burly policeman steps onboard and marches them by the ear into the back of a Morris Minor panda car.

I like that suggestion.

It is surprising what some people will try to get away with, I was volunteering on Christmas Day at a lunch for the senior citizens who would otherwise be alone, they get a free meal with wine, tea & coffee, guaranteed tombola prize, Christmas Present and a goody bag, yet one 94 year old man, nicked a box of chocolates from the tombola table.!

 

[duffield]

Until you wash your hands... 'I spilt beer all over so I needed a good wash, here's my beer soaked ticket to prove it'.... Frankly I dislike stamps anyway so would be inclined to wash it off.

Wristband, as per music festivals. If they're done right (tight enough to need cutting/breaking to remove, not too tight so they restrict the circulation) it's fairly difficult to abuse them. You can't really claim to have lost it!

 

[Ianno87]

On the 'big' railway, I'm sure I've noticed people who try and get a free 'bash' by hopping on the return leg of a charter at one of its dropping-off points, hoping for a ride to the next drop-off.

 

[dgl]

Wristband, as per music festivals. If they're done right (tight enough to need cutting/breaking to remove, not too tight so they restrict the circulation) it's fairly difficult to abuse them. You can't really claim to have lost it!

That's how it's done on the Seaton Tramway, you need to show both the ticket and wristband to the driver to be allowed to board.

 

[reddragon]

Normal days seem OK and everyone pays up. Ticket only Galas / special events are a problem with chancers trying to get in for free or to use tickets valid on normal days only.

The biggest issued I'd say is people becoming 'volunteers', to get a free travel pass & then not volunteering. They soon loose their passes, some have even been banned from the railway so bad was the fair dodge!

 

[HaggisBotherer]

Looking at it from the opposite end... not so long ago I paid a considerable sum for a first class, all day rover on the Bluebell. Despite stopping for a while between trains at each station, which also included going out of the stations at Kingscote, Horsted Keynes and Sheffield Park - at all of which there were staff at the exits - not once did anyone ask to see my ticket.

Perhaps I just have an honest face? But what if I wasn't? It did strike me that if the staff did what they were there for - rather than joshing around in uniform with their railway chums - then nobody would be able to cop a freebie.

 

[43096]

It did strike me that if the staff did what they were there for - rather than joshing around in uniform with their railway chums - then nobody would be able to cop a freebie.

Much like the “big railway” then!

 

[theageofthetra]

Looking at it from the opposite end... not so long ago I paid a considerable sum for a first class, all day rover on the Bluebell. Despite stopping for a while between trains at each station, which also included going out of the stations at Kingscote, Horsted Keynes and Sheffield Park - at all of which there were staff at the exits - not once did anyone ask to see my ticket.

Perhaps I just have an honest face? But what if I wasn't? It did strike me that if the staff did what they were there for - rather than joshing around in uniform with their railway chums - then nobody would be able to cop a freebie.

As has been suggested before there really should be some sort of wristband for galas and it properly enforced

 

[HaggisBotherer]

Much like the “big railway” then!

As has been suggested before there really should be some sort of wristband for galas and it properly enforced

But it wasn't a gala. It was a normal running day.