Do Eurostar trains run at 186mph?

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Uk125

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Hi

Just curious do Eurostar train run at 186mph between St Pancras and Ashford international?

Went on the Javelin train yesterday to Ashford. 140mph is the fastest I've been on now. I wonder about the Eurostar train. Thanks
 
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Ianno87

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They are 186mph / 300kph only East of Ebbsfleet (that's where the line speed increases above 140mph, plus the time taken to accelerate - through the gradient down to the Medway viaduct helps with this)
 

Uk125

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Thanks, is it possible to take the ride/ticket between St Pancras and Ashford to experiencing it once Eurostar fully resumed?
 

Ianno87

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Thanks, is it possible to take the ride/ticket between St Pancras and Ashford to experiencing it once Eurostar fully resumed?

No, Eurostars cannot be used for domestic travel at all. You would have to travel to at least Calais (and for the price of that ticket/low service frequency at Calais, you may as well make it a trip to Brussels/Amsterdam/Paris)
 

DanNCL

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No, Eurostars cannot be used for domestic travel at all. You would have to travel to at least Calais (and for the price of that ticket/low service frequency at Calais, you may as well make it a trip to Brussels/Amsterdam/Paris)
Not possible on the UK side of the Channel but there are a few domestic/Schengen area journeys they can be used for on the EU side of the Channel. If I recall correctly, you can join Brussels and Amsterdam bound services in Calais and Lille, but only in that direction, you can’t board in Amsterdam or Brussels to get off in Lille or Calais. I think the Marseille services, when they ran, had a similar setup.
 

colchesterken

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I read somewhere that that Javelins are time tabled for 125 running and that 140 is only for recovery--True or False??
 

eastwestdivide

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I read somewhere that that Javelins are time tabled for 125 running and that 140 is only for recovery--True or False??
Definitely false. I've been on plenty that were on time (i.e. not trying to recover), and GPS'd the speed consistently in the high 130s, even between Stratford-Ebbsfleet across Rainham Marshes.
 

Starmill

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Not possible on the UK side of the Channel but there are a few domestic/Schengen area journeys they can be used for on the EU side of the Channel. If I recall correctly, you can join Brussels and Amsterdam bound services in Calais and Lille, but only in that direction, you can’t board in Amsterdam or Brussels to get off in Lille or Calais. I think the Marseille services, when they ran, had a similar setup.
You can travel from Calais or Lille to Brussels, or could when there were relevant trains running, and you can travel from Brussels to Lille in a separate coach that's sealed off from the rest of the train. You can also travel from Amsterdam or Rotterdam to Brussels and vice versa. Marseille services ran from the UK to set down in Lyon and Marseille only. These are all international journeys of course, not domestic ones.
 

route101

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No, Eurostars cannot be used for domestic travel at all. You would have to travel to at least Calais (and for the price of that ticket/low service frequency at Calais, you may as well make it a trip to Brussels/Amsterdam/Paris)
I always thought it could be cool to have frequent services to Calais. Make a daytrip so much easier.
 

Ianno87

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I read somewhere that that Javelins are time tabled for 125 running and that 140 is only for recovery--True or False??

No, I had the GPS speed meter . Travelled at 140mph most of the time

False. I've clocked Javelins at 140mph using GPS.

This urban myth again...

Trains are timed with 5% recovery, as per standard practice on high speed lines. So the running time is calculated based 140mph running, then inflated by 5% (thus corresponding to ~125mph).

But trains routinely will run at 140mph, either to catch up minor late running, or will just arrive stations slightly early.
 

AverageTD

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As much as I'd love to be able to ride E* domestically in the UK, it makes perfect sense to not allow it given the amount of trains that do the Ashford/Ebbsfleet to St Pancras run. Compare this to Lille to Amsterdam, where the E* service is the only direct train between the 2 cities and is easily the fastest way to do it.
 

southern442

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It's done in a similar vein to not advertising Clapham Junction stops on fast southbound SWR trains, or Stratford stops on Northbound GA intercity trains. It would be nice if you could though, but I believe it would require the UK to join the Schengen zone, and whilst I would certainly be up for it I don't think that will happen for a while yet...
 

AverageTD

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It's done in a similar vein to not advertising Clapham Junction stops on fast southbound SWR trains, or Stratford stops on Northbound GA intercity trains. It would be nice if you could though, but I believe it would require the UK to join the Schengen zone, and whilst I would certainly be up for it I don't think that will happen for a while yet...
You can do it without having to join the Schengen zone the same way as posted up thread, by sealing off certain portions of the train and ensuring every domestic passenger stays in this section. It's just not worth the faff for the UK market.
 

southern442

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You can do it without having to join the Schengen zone the same way as posted up thread, by sealing off certain portions of the train and ensuring every domestic passenger stays in this section. It's just not worth the faff for the UK market.
Very true, at that point you might as well just have a different train, and well ... we do.
 

Ianno87

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I wonder if it's come about because the ECML and WCML were both supposed to become 140mph railways and never did?

I seem to recall the "timed at 125mph" statement in one of the various magazines back when the Javelins were first introduced...and it seems to have stuck from that.
 

43066

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That's very much one of those rumours that appears to strongly believe in never saying die :lol:

I wonder if it's come about because the ECML and WCML were both supposed to become 140mph railways and never did?

Yep, I’d love to know where that one comes from. It has been doing the rounds for years.

Is the line speed limited to 125mph between St Pancras and Stratford? If so the high profile Olympic “javelin” services when the 395s launched might have been the cause of it.
 

dk1

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Another point is that Javelin trains are limited to a maximum speed of 140mph.
I read somewhere at the time they where introduced stating that acceleration from Ashford, Ebbsfleet & Stratford was far more beneficial for Javelins than being able to get above 140mph.
 

Ianno87

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I read somewhere at the time they where introduced stating that acceleration from Ashford, Ebbsfleet & Stratford was far more beneficial for Javelins than being able to get above 140mph.

At top speed, It's basically the difference between 20ish seconds per mile at 186mph and and 25 seconds at 140mph.

Given that 186mph can only be attained Ebbsfleet to Ashford. That's about 30 miles, so the advantage would only be about 2-2.5 minutes tops.
 

route101

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A Eurostar calling at Ebbsfleet or Ashford, they would only get up to 186mph before slowing down surely? What is the line speed from St Pancras to Stratford?
 

STINT47

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I seem to recall the "timed at 125mph" statement in one of the various magazines back when the Javelins were first introduced...and it seems to have stuck from that.

Rail magazine reported that Southeastern high speed services were timed for 125mph and would only go to 140mph when running late. There was then an article from Barry Doo complaining that the service has a supplement when he didn't have to pay one to travel at 125mph on other msinlines.

This belief appears to have come from this with some Southeastern staff telling me that 125mph is the norm.

Actual travel with GPS shows that the speed hovers arround 135mph with this going up to 140mph or dropping back dependent on the gradients.
 

43066

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A Eurostar calling at Ebbsfleet or Ashford, they would only get up to 186mph before slowing down surely? What is the line speed from St Pancras to Stratford?

I’ve had 190mph indicated on a GPS on a London bound Eurostar in Kent. Didn’t remain at the speed for long, but didn’t need to given the relatively short distance covered.

This belief appears to have come from this with some Southeastern staff telling me that 125mph is the norm.

How embarrassing. I hope to goodness they weren’t drivers!
 

Railperf

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Yep, I’d love to know where that one comes from. It has been doing the rounds for years.

Is the line speed limited to 125mph between St Pancras and Stratford? If so the high profile Olympic “javelin” services when the 395s launched might have been the cause of it.
No, it is 230kph (143mph)..but leaving St Pancras around 170kph (105mph) is the maximum speed achieved before braking for the Stratford stop.
 

AverageTD

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No, it is 230kph (143mph)..but leaving St Pancras around 170kph (105mph) is the maximum speed achieved before braking for the Stratford stop.
I thought it was 225kph to stay consistent with the 140mph conversion. Is the line speed 230 while TVM only displays 225? Not that the 5kph would make much of a difference but can trains get away with running at a few kph over 225 in service?
 
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