Do not travel! [Kings Cross weekend closures Jan/Feb 2020]

johnnychips

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This is a bit of a stern warning at Doncaster tonight!

(The image is of the station concourse info screen saying: Special Notice. No trains to London on Sat 25th and Sun 26th Jan 2020. DO NOT TRAVEL)

So no RRBs (Rail Replacement Buses), no chance of going by Sheffield or Lincoln? What if I’ve bought a non-advance ticket that I’d like to use on those dates? What if I’m going to an intermediate station like Grantham? Any comments?221238F3-6A17-4F88-8563-CE9F8E592859.jpeg
 
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Darandio

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It's not severe unexpected disruption, it's been publicised for quite some time. Trains are still running south from there as far as Peterborough.
 

DarloRich

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This is a bit of a stern warning at Doncaster tonight!

(The image is of the station concourse info screen saying: Special Notice. No trains to London on Sat 25th and Sun 26th Jan 2020. DO NOT TRAVEL)

So no RRBs (Rail Replacement Buses), no chance of going by Sheffield or Lincoln? What if I’ve bought a non-advance ticket that I’d like to use on those dates? What if I’m going to an intermediate station like Grantham? Any comments?View attachment 72207
That is amazing if its not due to a severe unexpected disruption.
It is almost as if kings cross is closed for track rebuilding works. Imagine if it had been publicised for months.

It is sensible advice to try and reduce the impact on busy alternative services
 

sheff1

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If you are going to Grantham you will be fine as services are running as far as Peterborough.

Travel to London is perfectly feasible via Sheffield.

By all means tell people journey times will be extended, trains may be very busy and suggest they travel on other days if possible, but to state DO NOT TRAVEL when options are available beggars belief. Not the first time LNER have done this though and probably not the last.
 

johnnychips

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So are there any RRBs from Peterborough? Could I travel via Sheffield (not sure if it’s a valid route, but if not is there ticket acceptance on EMR). However, I will give LNER the benefit of the doubt and I go on their website and all is explained. I haven’t had the chance yet.
 

Glenn1969

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Travel to London via EMR is also feasible from Retford (via Sheffield), Newark and Grantham (both via Nottingham)

Will LNER and EMR have ticket acceptance deal in place?
 

3270

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If you are going to Grantham you will be fine as services are running as far as Peterborough.

Travel to London is perfectly feasible via Sheffield.

By all means tell people journey times will be extended, trains may be very busy and suggest they travel on other days if possible, but to state DO NOT TRAVEL when options are available beggars belief. Not the first time LNER have done this though and probably not the last.
The 'Do Not Travel' message is probably designed to put off casual travellers who might have been thinking about popping up to London for the day. The alternative travel arrangements (buses Peterborough to Bedford) then work better for those who have to travel.
 

JonathanH

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Will LNER and EMR have ticket acceptance deal in place?
LNER won't have sold any 'LNER only' tickets for this date so not sure of the relevance of this question.

I suspect that people travelling to London will need to buy EMR's tickets if they don't buy Any Permitted tickets.
 

johnnychips

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It is almost as if kings cross is closed for track rebuilding works. Imagine if it had been publicised for months.

It is sensible advice to try and reduce the impact on busy alternative services
I’m evidently interested in railways and I didn’t know, so I don’t think the ‘ordinary’ passenger would, necessarily. Of course a message like, ‘we have to do some essential work this weekend, but if you really have to travel we suggest you do x, y or z and it will take longer’ is what I expected. It was its abruptness that surprised me and it also hints there would be no trains on the London line. Apparently there are to Peterborough.
 

johnnychips

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LNER won't have sold any 'LNER only' tickets for this date so not sure of the relevance of this question.

I suspect that people travelling to London will need to buy EMR's tickets if they don't buy Any Permitted tickets.
I think the question is: is ‘Any permitted’ ticket from Doncaster and further north valid via Sheffield, and some of the answers above imply it is.
 

The Planner

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By all means tell people journey times will be extended, trains may be very busy and suggest they travel on other days if possible, but to state DO NOT TRAVEL when options are available beggars belief. Not the first time LNER have done this though and probably not the last.
Not sure it does, if other TOCs are unable to strengthen (likely not) then the actual likelihood is that they have all previously agreed that to avoid crush loading and leaving people behind that this is the best message. Softer messages don't always work.
 

DarloRich

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I’m evidently interested in railways and I didn’t know, so I don’t think the ‘ordinary’ passenger would, necessarily. Of course a message like, ‘we have to do some essential work this weekend, but if you really have to travel we suggest you do x, y or z and it will take longer’ is what I expected. It was its abruptness that surprised me and it also hints there would be no trains on the London line. Apparently there are to Peterborough.
It has been advertised at kings cross for months and on social media and on posters. It has been advertised at most of the ecml stations I have used recently including Doncaster.

As I said it is messaging designed to reduce the burden on already busy alternative services

As for ordinary passengers not knowing! My gf has changed work plans becuase of this work and my mum asked me if I knew about it when making travel plans. They are 2 of the least train people you could meet!
 

sheff1

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Not sure it does, if other TOCs are unable to strengthen (likely not) then the actual likelihood is that they have all previously agreed that to avoid crush loading and leaving people behind that this is the best message. Softer messages don't always work.
Well if all TOCs have conspired to imply that travel is not possible rather than explain the alternatives available, whilst advising against them and suggesting journeys are replanned if possible, then that is a telling indictment of rail travel in the UK in 2020.
 

johnnychips

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It has been advertised at kings cross for months and on social media and on posters. It has been advertised at most of the ecml stations I have used recently including Doncaster.

As I said it is messaging designed to reduce the burden on already busy alternative services

As for ordinary passengers not knowing! My gf has changed work plans becuase of this work and my mum asked me if I knew about it when making travel plans. They are 2 of the least train people you could meet!
You sure they didn’t ask you before :) ?
I take your point, and no doubt if I’d been actually thinking of travelling that weekend, I would have checked. However, I do think it should have said that you could get to stations to Peterborough (look at the original photo, there is room), and I still haven’t checked the LNER website. If I were doing it, I would have put a page in saying ‘if you still really have to travel, here’s what you can do’. No doubt I will find such a page when I look it up later.

Happy New Year Rich, May your doors on the 230s open rapidly in the next decade. Best wishes John.
 

Randomer

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LNER won't have sold any 'LNER only' tickets for this date so not sure of the relevance of this question.

I suspect that people travelling to London will need to buy EMR's tickets if they don't buy Any Permitted tickets.
I understand LNER can block the sale of advance fares by not allocating any to be available. Does anyone know if a TOC only fare can actually be temporarily withdrawn from sale for an eventuality like this?

A ticket like this for example: http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=DON&dest=1072&rte=27&tkt=BFS

I know that a TOC can introduce and change price on a fare on a temporary basis (see the TPE, LNER and XC price war between York and Newcastle) but does the national ticketing database and the various retail front ends have the granularity to allow withdrawals for engineering works or other line blockages?
 

Mag_seven

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The problem with these works is not only are they closing Kings Cross but they are also closing the rest of the ECML south of Peterborough. Whatever happened to turning trains round at Finsbury Park?
 

Andyh82

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This is the same messaging that was used for the closure over the August Bank Holiday, in extensive publicity by both LNER and Network Rail.
 

ashkeba

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The problem with these works is not only are they closing Kings Cross but they are also closing the rest of the ECML south of Peterborough. Whatever happened to turning trains round at Finsbury Park?
Maybe prevented by works at Stevenage or Huntingdon. I don't remember where to find what work is on which dates.
 

yorksrob

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Seems a defeatist message, and I'm not convinced it gives the correct impression to taxpayers.

"Try and avoid these dates if you can, and expect delays and replacement buses if you travel" would be a more appropriate warning to my mind.
 

3270

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Maybe prevented by works at Stevenage or Huntingdon. I don't remember where to find what work is on which dates.
They're taking the opportunity to do lots of other work as well. Network Rail's Engineering Access Statement document says there's work south of Hitchin to Woolmer Green Jn and north of Hitchin to Holme Jn. It mentions Drainage work, Tamping, Vegetation clearance, Rerail / Resleeper (High Output), Structures work, Overhead line work, Track maintenance and Structures Examination.
 

Andyh82

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Seems a defeatist message, and I'm not convinced it gives the correct impression to taxpayers.

"Try and avoid these dates if you can, and expect delays and replacement buses if you travel" would be a more appropriate warning to my mind.
I’m not sure a whishy washy message that people miss and then 1000s of people turn up expecting to travel via Sheffield, or on a limited replacement bus would be a good scenario. Unless you want more ‘railways in crisis’ stories in the media.
 

InOban

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The problem with these works is not only are they closing Kings Cross but they are also closing the rest of the ECML south of Peterborough. Whatever happened to turning trains round at Finsbury Park?
Because they're also working at Stevenage (new platform 5), and transferring a lot of signalling to York. A whole series of worksites to make the best use of the closure. BTW the same will happen 5 weekends later, and on the other weekends half of KX will be closed.
I agree that arrangements should be made for anyone who needs to get to London to travel via Sheffield.
 

hwl

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Travel to London via EMR is also feasible from Retford (via Sheffield), Newark and Grantham (both via Nottingham)

Will LNER and EMR have ticket acceptance deal in place?
No - they didn't last August BH, the same as last time applies for the early 2020 closures.
 

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