Do restrictions apply on the use of public transport in Wales? Are leisure journeys allowed or not?

AdamWW

Member
Joined
6 Nov 2012
Messages
760
So many complaints on Twitter about overcrowding on the Barry Island trains, but don't people realise that they themselves are the cause of that? It's coming across as if they (the complainers) should be allowed to travel, but everyone else should be stopped.
I did see a "key worker" complaining about overcrowding on their train, saying how unpleasant commuting used to be and hoping that it would never be allowed to go back to that.

I don't know what their plan was - I hope it wasn't that we will introduce capacity controls on peak hour trains with some kind of priority scheme based on what job you do...

The truth is they are using this all as an excuse as the trains are dreadfully inadequate! They have not got enough trains and they KNOW that people flock to the Island on hot days! They will not put the timetable back to normal either at least until the 769s are available.
I don't see the 769's as making a huge difference. How many are they?

They should at least do as National Express do and inside seat only except for people living together. They would have half a chance then!
Not just National Express. Also bus companies in Wales.
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

anthony263

Established Member
Joined
19 Aug 2008
Messages
5,578
Location
South Wales
might explain why a lot of the buses have been busy between Cardiff and Barry lately. Good news for the bus operators but tfw shooting themselves
 

AdamWW

Member
Joined
6 Nov 2012
Messages
760
might explain why a lot of the buses have been busy between Cardiff and Barry lately. Good news for the bus operators but tfw shooting themselves
Not just a capacity issue on buses - they have also stopped telling people not to use them.
 

Markdvdman

Member
Joined
14 Aug 2011
Messages
194
Location
Merthyr Tydfil / Gorslas
AdamWW up to 9 sets of 769s - but that is for another day! I agree I cannot see it making a lot of difference as it will only be for the Rhymney line too! They need to work on STRAIGHTENING the Valleys lines to take better trains but they cannot even run a decent service on time anyway, as the cancellations yesterday in the day were horrendous!
 

Bletchleyite

Veteran Member
Joined
20 Oct 2014
Messages
54,470
Location
Up and down the south WCML (mostly)
The truth is they are using this all as an excuse as the trains are dreadfully inadequate! They have not got enough trains and they KNOW that people flock to the Island on hot days! They will not put the timetable back to normal either at least until the 769s are available. People will not listen to them telling them not to travel. They should at least do as National Express do and inside seat only except for people living together. They would have half a chance then!
This is I think why they've persisted with the "essential" message for longer - they are quite unlike any other TOC in their level of shortage of rolling stock. They don't even have enough units to run all the pre-COVID diagrams, let alone to double anything up. This causes them a rather unique problem.

In practice, until the 197s arrive plus a decision not to get rid of all the 175s (as I believe their plans don't actually increase capacity at present) they are firmly stuck.
 

AdamWW

Member
Joined
6 Nov 2012
Messages
760
This is I think why they've persisted with the "essential" message for longer - they are quite unlike any other TOC in their level of shortage of rolling stock. They don't even have enough units to run all the pre-COVID diagrams, let alone to double anything up. This causes them a rather unique problem.

In practice, until the 197s arrive plus a decision not to get rid of all the 175s (as I believe their plans don't actually increase capacity at present) they are firmly stuck.
Possibly.

But their justification is always that the Government wants all public transport in Wales to be reserved for key workers and essential journeys only.
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
11,691
Location
Caerphilly
This is I think why they've persisted with the "essential" message for longer - they are quite unlike any other TOC in their level of shortage of rolling stock. They don't even have enough units to run all the pre-COVID diagrams, let alone to double anything up. This causes them a rather unique problem.

In practice, until the 197s arrive plus a decision not to get rid of all the 175s (as I believe their plans don't actually increase capacity at present) they are firmly stuck.

TFW have got enough units and are doubling up on many Valley services. If, for a hypothetical example, they have 50 diagrams to cover and have an allocation with a few above this number to cover Maintenance requirements they have got enough. This will bite though if they are expected to find more due to passengers having to spread out for social distancing..
 

Markdvdman

Member
Joined
14 Aug 2011
Messages
194
Location
Merthyr Tydfil / Gorslas
TFW have NOT got enough units to meet demand in normal circumstances! I have tried to get on trains from Cadoxton last summer holidays to get to Merthyr and could not get on! They are Arriva mark 2 and all this Metro stuff I will believe it when I see it!
 

AdamWW

Member
Joined
6 Nov 2012
Messages
760
TFW have NOT got enough units to meet demand in normal circumstances! I have tried to get on trains from Cadoxton last summer holidays to get to Merthyr and could not get on! They are Arriva mark 2 and all this Metro stuff I will believe it when I see it!
Well I hope something is going to happen about the Metro because if not a lot of money is being wasted building a new depot in Taffs Wells and in shutting down the lines north of Radyr every evening for a long time. (Rail replacement buses will be provided but only for key workers and essential travel).
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
11,691
Location
Caerphilly
On the reduced timetable. The full one they were repeatedly having to can the Conwy Valley (before it flooded) to free up a unit so they didn't have to do random cancellations. That says it all.
They have enough to cover the diagrams but not enough to cater for the number of passengers.
 

PHILIPE

Veteran Member
Joined
14 Nov 2011
Messages
11,691
Location
Caerphilly
1V90 1020 Holyhead to Cardiff Central announcement

TFW Twitter
Announcing on the Bangor to Caerdydd train that “we won’t be getting extra carriages and therefore, social distancing will likely be impossible”
 

AdamWW

Member
Joined
6 Nov 2012
Messages
760
The TFW Rail line on Twitter now seems to be: " Please only travel for essential journeys or if it’s your only option "
And they link to the TFW (not Rail) FAQ which says the same.

But...both the TFW Rail web site and the TFW (not Rail) home page give a different message - they say " Stay safe - in Wales only travel if it’s essential, to help those with no other option, and don’t travel if you’re feeling unwell" and "Stay safe - only travel if it’s essential to help those with no other option and don’t travel if you’re feeling unwell." (not quite the same, because the change in punctuation seems to change the meaning). And I'm not really sure what either actually means.
 

AdamWW

Member
Joined
6 Nov 2012
Messages
760
A friend of mine travelled on TfW the other day for leisure and had no issues.
The consensus here seems to be that generally passengers are not going to be challenged on their reason for travel, barring perhaps families travelling to Barry for the day.

However the messaging is extremely off-putting, in particular the threat that having gone somewhere for the day, someone may be refused travel home if the trains back are too busy.
 

anthony263

Established Member
Joined
19 Aug 2008
Messages
5,578
Location
South Wales
I been observing the rail replacement bus services between Pontypridd and Cardiff today and sll the buses have been busy noticed one of the standby buses st Pontypridd got called out at least once because of demand.
 

Dai Corner

Established Member
Joined
20 Jul 2015
Messages
2,556
I been observing the rail replacement bus services between Pontypridd and Cardiff today and sll the buses have been busy noticed one of the standby buses st Pontypridd got called out at least once because of demand.
I guess lots of key workers with no alternative were making essential journeys to Cardiff Bay or Barry Island?
 

AdamWW

Member
Joined
6 Nov 2012
Messages
760
They have enough to cover the diagrams but not enough to cater for the number of passengers.
By now they should have had enough vehicles to retire the Pacers.

OK they don't have the 769's (but they got some 153s to keep them going, I think).

But if they have all the 170s they were going to get and whatever else, then by keeping Pacers they should have extra stock, shouldn't they?

I would have thought that under the cirumstances, running a Pacer with a PRM'd 150 (as they seem to be) is a not unreasonable compromise.

(Edited to remove tongue-in-cheek comment about bringing back 37's as it may have violated the forum rules regarding speculation and suggestions)
 
Last edited:

ValleyLines142

Established Member
Joined
25 Jul 2011
Messages
6,177
Location
Cardiff/Bristol
On Thursday and Friday there was a queue at the back of the station for Barry Island passengers. Queue was two hours long!

On Friday I travelled from Fairwater to Eastbrook and required changing from platform 6 to platform 8 at Cardiff Central. A young security guard was stood in front of the stairs and he asked me what train I was getting. I told him I wanted a Barry service and he told me I had to join the queue. I said I only want to go to Eastbrook and he went 'oh actually, don't worry mate'. Thankfully!!

What really irritated me was how busy the Barry services were, which isn't TfW's fault, but more so at BTP who had a heavy presence there but made seemingly no attempt to prevent travel, encourage youngsters to wear face coverings or social distance. In fact, one youngster was smoking on the platform and not a single thing was said.

Controversially, I strongly believe that there should be no Barry Island services when the weather is as hot as it was last week. I believe that services should call at Cadoxton, run empty to Barry station and then form a service back to Cardiff from there, or if it's a Bridgend via Rhoose service then that should run as normal. I'm not usually one for segregation however my friend is a nurse at UHW and she had to wait 45 minutes to get home after a 12 hour shift because of the extra revellers.

The Twitter team for TfW are a lovely bunch, and I do feel sorry for them having to bear the brunt of everyone's rants but I do wish they'd start letting themselves go a little bit. However, I was not impressed by their lack of care at how overcrowded Barry services were, and how BTP didn't do anything to stop it.
 

Bikeman78

Member
Joined
26 Apr 2018
Messages
1,135
On the reduced timetable. The full one they were repeatedly having to can the Conwy Valley (before it flooded) to free up a unit so they didn't have to do random cancellations. That says it all.
The situation improved massively in December when the 170s and the extra 153s turned up. Last November you were lucky to see a four car. By February, most of the peak trains that I saw were four cars. I'm inclined to think that nothing should be withdrawn until all Valley trains are four cars, apart from Radyr to Coryton and Cardiff Bay.
 

Drsatan

Established Member
Joined
24 Aug 2009
Messages
1,825
Location
Land of the Sprinters
Evening,

In September, I am planning on visiting Wales for leisure travel. I am aware that the official message stated by Transport for Wales and the Welsh Government is that TfW services (and presumably by extension, services operated by other TOCs that enter Wales) are for essential travel only.

However, the TfW website indicates that rovers vaid on TfW services are still available. I can't find anything that indicates rover tickets are no longer being sold, or that travel with rover tickets (such as the Valley Lines Day Ranger) is explicitly banned.

Does this mean that I am likely to be refused travel on services in Wales if I produce a rover ticket?
 

Dai Corner

Established Member
Joined
20 Jul 2015
Messages
2,556
I think this is the first time TfW (not TfW Rail Services) have explicitly said on social media that you can use the trains for leisure purposes.


In answer to a question asking if the train could be used 'for a day out'
Transport for Wales said:
Hi there. Yes, you can, but only if you have no other option. We’re currently running reduced rail services and there is very limited capacity on trains due to social distancing measures being in place, so please bear this in mind when planning your journey. You can find more information here: https://trc.cymru/essential-travel/faqs ^Bryn
 

AdamWW

Member
Joined
6 Nov 2012
Messages
760
I think this is the first time TfW (not TfW Rail Services) have explicitly said on social media that you can use the trains for leisure purposes.


In answer to a question asking if the train could be used 'for a day out'
They've been saying the "or only other option" thing on Twitter for a few days, but maybe not as explicitly as that.

But that's not their message elsewhere.
 

AdamWW

Member
Joined
6 Nov 2012
Messages
760
Evening,

In September, I am planning on visiting Wales for leisure travel. I am aware that the official message stated by Transport for Wales and the Welsh Government is that TfW services (and presumably by extension, services operated by other TOCs that enter Wales) are for essential travel only.

However, the TfW website indicates that rovers vaid on TfW services are still available. I can't find anything that indicates rover tickets are no longer being sold, or that travel with rover tickets (such as the Valley Lines Day Ranger) is explicitly banned.

Does this mean that I am likely to be refused travel on services in Wales if I produce a rover ticket?
If you look on Twitter you'll see that they are conceding that leisure travel is permitted if you have no other option.

Elsewhere their message is essential travel only.

In practise being refused travel seems to be extremely rare or non-existent, though I've seen stories of long queues for trains coming back from the beach on a hot day.
 

Huntergreed

Established Member
Joined
16 Jan 2016
Messages
1,162
Location
Dumfries
Legally, you are just as entitled to travel in Wales as you are in England or Scotland.

TfW don’t want you to travel, but they have no legal power over this so feel free to use any of their services :)
 

AdamWW

Member
Joined
6 Nov 2012
Messages
760
Legally, you are just as entitled to travel in Wales as you are in England or Scotland.

TfW don’t want you to travel, but they have no legal power over this so feel free to use any of their services :)
It is not clear to me that they have to sell all tickets to all comers (there was a claim on Twitter that they had refused to sell a ticket to someone because their travel was not essential and there was a garbled message on their web site a while ago about refusing to sell return tickets to Barry Island).

If it's possible to buy the Rover outside Wales that would avoid any chance of trouble (which I suspect is small to near non-existant).
 

Top