Do restrictions apply on the use of public transport in Wales? Are leisure journeys allowed or not?

[Bletchleyite]

They'd do better to remove those. If it's busy enough for them to be needed, standing space is more useful.

 

[AdamWW]

They'd do better to remove those. If it's busy enough for them to be needed, standing space is more useful.

Standing on public transport is no longer permitted in Wales except as required to enter and leave a vehicle. (OK - exaggeration - I don't think it's illegal, but operators are told not to permit it).

But I think people have been known to sit on such seats even when there is space, and you can see why that wouldn't be wanted now.

 

[trainophile]

There were three other people in my coach on a 3-coach 178 175 from Newport to Hereford today. Sometimes I wish travel was always like that!

(Edited to correct Class No.)

 

[PHILIPE]

There were three other people in my coach on a 3-coach 178 from Newport to Hereford today. Sometimes I wish travel was always like that!

178 ?

 

[trainophile]

178 ?

Sorry, 175. Always making that mistake .

 

[carlberry]

Standing on public transport is no longer permitted in Wales except as required to enter and leave a vehicle. (OK - exaggeration - I don't think it's illegal, but operators are told not to permit it).

But I think people have been known to sit on such seats even when there is space, and you can see why that wouldn't be wanted now.

The no standing was one of the suggested regulations that TfW listed for transport operators. Whilst they could force TfW Wales to implement it I'm not aware of any bus operators that bothered (or any that are checking to make sure that their passengers avoided running at any point on their journey to the bus stop!).

 

[AdamWW]

The no standing was one of the suggested regulations that TfW listed for transport operators. Whilst they could force TfW Wales to implement it I'm not aware of any bus operators that bothered (or any that are checking to make sure that their passengers avoided running at any point on their journey to the bus stop!).

Yes I rather liked the "no running for buses" rule. And don't forget that all passengers should travel in "relative silence" because raising your voice is dangerous.

It looked very much like the sort of risk assessment you get when someone throws in everything they can think of to show they've made an effort, viewing it as a document to be written, signed off, and then completely ignored.

(I've seen similar in Covid risk assessments, e.g. telling people to disinfect tools before handing them to someone else, which few people are actually going to do and shouldn't need doing anyway so long as they wash their hands before touching their face or eating etc...)

 

[The Prisoner]

Living just under a mile into Wales in Rossett the differences between the Welsh and English lockdowns are very apparent and not a little bizarre.

Most of Wrexham headed to Chester on the beers the weekend pubs reopened and apparently the trains were full and standing well into the night. The Grosvenor Arms in Pulford (literally metres over the border into England) has been rammed most nights with thirsty drinkers from the local Welsh villages.

ArrIva buses are now starting to tweet that they are looking forward to welcoming customers back on board, but the sapphire service from Chester to Wrexham is only running once per hour rather than every 12 minutes and finishes by 6pm rather than running through til 11.30 as usual so is next to useless. Customers questioning the tweet are being told that they can’t go back to a normal service due to funding not being available from welsh government (Pinned tweet @arrivabuswales if you want to see the interaction).

i cant say which approach is right, but on a personal level Drakeford is purposely trying to points score against the english at every opportunity. I‘m sure if he had his way Wales would just be allowed to furlough the whole population and go to sleep til this is a distant memory. The welsh tourist economy is desperate to safely open up to try and save whatever is left - his letting hospitality have the last three weeks of the summer holidays almost smacks of sarcasm.

 

[Cowley]

Living just under a mile into Wales in Rossett the differences between the Welsh and English lockdowns are very apparent and not a little bizarre.

Most of Wrexham headed to Chester on the beers the weekend pubs reopened and apparently the trains were full and standing well into the night. The Grosvenor Arms in Pulford (literally metres over the border into England) has been rammed most nights with thirsty drinkers from the local Welsh villages.

ArrIva buses are now starting to tweet that they are looking forward to welcoming customers back on board, but the sapphire service from Chester to Wrexham is only running once per hour rather than every 12 minutes and finishes by 6pm rather than running through til 11.30 as usual so is next to useless. Customers questioning the tweet are being told that they can’t go back to a normal service due to funding not being available from welsh government (Pinned tweet @arrivabuswales if you want to see the interaction).

i cant say which approach is right, but on a personal level Drakeford is purposely trying to points score against the english at every opportunity. I‘m sure if he had his way Wales would just be allowed to furlough the whole population and go to sleep til this is a distant memory. The welsh tourist economy is desperate to safely open up to try and save whatever is left - his letting hospitality have the last three weeks of the summer holidays almost smacks of sarcasm.

Never has a username been more apt for a post...

 

[Dai Corner]

Living just under a mile into Wales in Rossett the differences between the Welsh and English lockdowns are very apparent and not a little bizarre.

Most of Wrexham headed to Chester on the beers the weekend pubs reopened and apparently the trains were full and standing well into the night. The Grosvenor Arms in Pulford (literally metres over the border into England) has been rammed most nights with thirsty drinkers from the local Welsh villages.

ArrIva buses are now starting to tweet that they are looking forward to welcoming customers back on board, but the sapphire service from Chester to Wrexham is only running once per hour rather than every 12 minutes and finishes by 6pm rather than running through til 11.30 as usual so is next to useless. Customers questioning the tweet are being told that they can’t go back to a normal service due to funding not being available from welsh government (Pinned tweet @arrivabuswales if you want to see the interaction).

i cant say which approach is right, but on a personal level Drakeford is purposely trying to points score against the english at every opportunity. I‘m sure if he had his way Wales would just be allowed to furlough the whole population and go to sleep til this is a distant memory. The welsh tourist economy is desperate to safely open up to try and save whatever is left - his letting hospitality have the last three weeks of the summer holidays almost smacks of sarcasm.

As far as the bus industry is concerned I think the intention is to starve operators of passengers, revenue and support so they are forced into agreeing to a franchise system where politicians decide what services should be run. Personally, I don't think they'll do a better job than the managers with decades if experience.

 

[AdamWW]

As far as the bus industry is concerned I think the intention is to starve operators of passengers, revenue and support so they are forced into agreeing to a franchise system where politicians decide what services should be run. Personally, I don't think they'll do a better job than the managers with decades if experience.

I've heard few compliants that in London the buses all run to the wrong places, but in any case I presume there would be nothing preventing them from getting some of the said managers to use their experience.

I believe for the TFW Rail franchise the government took the view that they didn't want to be prescriptive because they weren't the experts, so set a very high level set of requirements and left the bidders to see what they came up with.

Meanwhile we're now at the end of the first week of school holidays here and there's still no suggestion that before school starts again there will be any change to the government view that everyone without access to a car should stay at home.

 

[The Prisoner]

The Llangollen Railway reopens on the 1st August for Key Workers and essential journeys between Llangollen and Carrog running non-stop and turning round after 20 minutes and coming straight back.

 

[AdamWW]

On Monday the next step in re-opening Wales takes place - cinemas. museums and beauty salons can open.

But the only announcement on public transport is that it will become mandatory to wear masks.

The next step is apparently opening pubs and restaurants indoors.

I'm not saying that the government thinks the (fairly large) fraction of people in Wales without access to a car don't deserve to go any further than they can walk or cycle, but I haven't seen any reason to think otherwise either.

(Also no mention of when they might think of making it legal to visit friends and family in their homes again.)

 

[nedchester]

The Llangollen Railway reopens on the 1st August for Key Workers and essential journeys between Llangollen and Carrog running non-stop and turning round after 20 minutes and coming straight back.

 

[Dai Corner]

I've heard few compliants that in London the buses all run to the wrong places, but in any case I presume there would be nothing preventing them from getting some of the said managers to use their experience.

I believe for the TFW Rail franchise the government took the view that they didn't want to be prescriptive because they weren't the experts, so set a very high level set of requirements and left the bidders to see what they came up with.

Meanwhile we're now at the end of the first week of school holidays here and there's still no suggestion that before school starts again there will be any change to the government view that everyone without access to a car should stay at home.

The difference is that London buses receive enormous subsidies and serve a densely populated urban area. There is discussion in the Traws Cymru thread about services in the Transport Minister's rural constituency which make no sense to those who know the area and seem to be there for political reasons.


I agree wholeheartedly with you on the 'cruel rule' (to borrow a phrase from the Welsh Tories) that prevents those who can't drive through age or disability or can't afford a car having a day out. I've Tweeted the Labour and opposition MSs in my region about it but the only one who responded was the Brexit one who didn't think there should still be any sort of lockdown.

(I drove to spend the day with my Mum in her house in England the other day and used the loo while I was there. I'm not sure whether I broke any Welsh Government rules).

 

[AdamWW]

I agree wholeheartedly with you on the 'cruel rule' (to borrow a phrase from the Welsh Tories) that prevents those who can't drive through age or disability or can't afford a car having a day out.

Or indeed those who were stupid enough to think that because the government were strongly in favour of reducing car usage, they would feel some responsibility towards people who chose not to learn to drive and get a car.

I've Tweeted the Labour and opposition MSs in my region about it but the only one who responded was the Brexit one who didn't think there should still be any sort of lockdown.

Interesting.

(I drove to spend the day with my Mum in her house in England the other day and used the loo while I was there. I'm not sure whether I broke any Welsh Government rules).

I suspect the only reason there isn't much fuss being made about it still being illegal to visit people in their homes in Wales is that not many people are aware of it - and even fewer care.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

(I've seen similar in Covid risk assessments, e.g. telling people to disinfect tools before handing them to someone else, which few people are actually going to do and shouldn't need doing anyway so long as they wash their hands before touching their face or eating etc...)

Tesco (in Wales at least) seem to have relaxed their disinfection regime.
Instead of Tesco staff doing the trolley cleaning and inviting you to take one from a prepared set, it's now self-service (disinfectant provided) so at your risk.
The one-way systems in store seem to have gone too, also distancing advice is not specific any more.
Hopefully the railway will follow.
Definitely more face coverings worn in store today (including me), anticipating the Welsh rule change on Monday.
The new hazard is my glasses misting up all the time...

 

[trainophile]

Looking at taking advantage of the Travelodge "extra night free" offer (as mentioned on the Special Offers thread)...

Travelodge | Great value hotels throughout the UK & Ireland

Travelodge

www.travelodge.co.uk

...but unsure whether to book any in Wales due to this ongoing situation. Looking at week commencing 3rd August, also w/com 24th August, plus various dates beyond then. Travel is available up to end of November but the offer has to be booked by midnight tonight. Do I chance it (as I did to Weymouth and back via Newport this week, with no problems encountered) or is it likely to be tightened up rather than relaxed? I know that's a question to which no answer other than a guess is currently possible!

 

[carlberry]

The Llangollen Railway reopens on the 1st August for Key Workers and essential journeys between Llangollen and Carrog running non-stop and turning round after 20 minutes and coming straight back.

They wont be selling one-way tickets either. I assume anybody cavalier enough to actually get off at Carrog and make a run for it will be identified to the Police and returned to Llangollen after being informed how important it is to ensure transport isn't available to people who havent got cars.

 

[AdamWW]

Looking at taking advantage of the Travelodge "extra night free" offer (as mentioned on the Special Offers thread)...

Travelodge | Great value hotels throughout the UK & Ireland

Travelodge

www.travelodge.co.uk

...but unsure whether to book any in Wales due to this ongoing situation. Looking at week commencing 3rd August, also w/com 24th August, plus various dates beyond then. Travel is available up to end of November but the offer has to be booked by midnight tonight. Do I chance it (as I did to Weymouth and back via Newport this week, with no problems encountered) or is it likely to be tightened up rather than relaxed? I know that's a question to which no answer other than a guess is currently possible!

As you say, hard to know.

I hope there are plans to drop the "essential journeys only" message on public transport but I've seen nothing to indicate what criteria - if any - there are for relaxing this. I've seen nothing suggseting that the compulsory use of masks on public transport will then enable the 2 m spacing requirement to be reduced.
The Welsh approach is to relax things slowly, generally on a weekly basis, and see what happens.
If opening up public transport is on the list, then it's so far down that it's not even being mentioned.

But it's not against the law to use a train for whatever purposes you want, and unless things get a lot worse I doubt that's going to change - though I don't think anyone can rule out some scheme to prevent trains from becoming 'overcrowded', preventing particular services from being used.

 

[AdamWW]

They wont be selling one-way tickets either. I assume anybody cavalier enough to actually get off at Carrog and make a run for it will be identified to the Police and returned to Llangollen after being informed how important it is to ensure transport isn't available to people who havent got cars.

Absolutely!

Time they knew their place...

It is a little sad that unless you have a heritage line on your doorstep, the only "legitimate" way to get to one is to drive. (Or cycle, I suppose).

 

[Richard Scott]

Tesco (in Wales at least) seem to have relaxed their disinfection regime.
Instead of Tesco staff doing the trolley cleaning and inviting you to take one from a prepared set, it's now self-service (disinfectant provided) so at your risk.
The one-way systems in store seem to have gone too, also distancing advice is not specific any more.
Hopefully the railway will follow.
Definitely more face coverings worn in store today (including me), anticipating the Welsh rule change on Monday.
The new hazard is my glasses misting up all the time...

Thought the rule on Monday was public transport not in shops? Thought Wales hadn't yet announced anything about facemasks in shops? I'm prepared to be corrected on that one.

 

[AdamWW]

Thought the rule on Monday was public transport not in shops? Thought Wales hadn't yet announced anything about facemasks in shops? I'm prepared to be corrected on that one.

I believe you're right.

I'm not sure what the reasoning is for making masks compulsory on public transport - unfortunately it doesn't appear be so that the 2 m rule can be relaxed.

 

[RomeoCharlie71]

I'm not sure what the reasoning is for making masks compulsory on public transport - unfortunately it doesn't appear be so that the 2 m rule can be relaxed.

Did Drakeford not say it was to be consistent with the other nations of the UK?

I believe that Stagecoach and a few other Welsh bus operators are increasing capacity from Monday however.

 

[AdamWW]

Did Drakeford not say it was to be consistent with the other nations of the UK?

Possibly.

Shame we can't be consistent with the actually being allowed to use a train thing.

It seems a bit over the top to mandate masks and insist that everyone is seated 2 m apart at all times.

 

[Dai Corner]

Did Drakeford not say it was to be consistent with the other nations of the UK?

Simplicity and consistency with England, bearing in mind that many buses and trains cross the border

 

[AdamWW]

Simplicity and consistency with England, bearing in mind that many buses and trains cross the border

Actually, I'm not sure I follow that.

If Wales wasn't recommending face coverings, or was recommending against them, I'd see a problem.

But given that everyone is asked to wear them in both Wales and England, I don't see that it's too big a deal if it's only an actual criminal offence for part of the journey. The only people who can enforce it are the police, and if the police can cope with a completely different legal system on the two sides of the English/Scottish border, I would have thought this would be something they could manage.

 

[Dai Corner]

Actually, I'm not sure I follow that.

If Wales wasn't recommending face coverings, or was recommending against them, I'd see a problem.

But given that everyone is asked to wear them in both Wales and England, I don't see that it's too big a deal if it's only an actual criminal offence for part of the journey. The only people who can enforce it are the police, and if the police can cope with a completely different legal system on the two sides of the English/Scottish border, I would have thought this would be something they could manage.

Drakeford's words, not mine.

Stagecoach are changing their rules from Monday. In particular, capacity will increase from less than 25% to nearly 50% of seats.

Social distancing on the bus:

• Only one person can sit in a double seat, unless you’re with a member of your household or social bubble.
• You must sit diagonal to the person in the row in front and behind. You should leave the seat behind and next to them empty.
• Please leave the seat behind the driver free and any seats facing each other
• You will also notice posters on the bus with guidance on how to social distance while on the bus. See here for another on bus example poster.
• If you’re physically able to use the top deck of the bus please do as this keeps seats free on the lower deck for people who are unable to use the stairs.
• Don't stand on the bus.
• No newspapers
• Don't leave litter, take it with you and dispose of it responsibly
• Don't touch litter or lost property on the bus
• Don't consume food or drink (except on medical grounds)
• Once you’re on the bus open a window, if you can, to help with ventilation.
• Travel in relative silence, no singing or talking on mobile phones
• When leaving the bus stay seated, ring the bell and take everything with you.
• Let us know if you think your bus is too busy to allow for social distancing.
• See Welsh Government guidance on how to travel safely on public transport

Bus Seating Plan

 

[ForTheLoveOf]

Drakeford's words, not mine.

Stagecoach are changing their rules from Monday. In particular, capacity will increase from less than 25% to nearly 50% of seats.

Oh dear, they seem to have capitulated to Cloud Cuckoo Land's guidance...

 

[carlberry]

Stagecoach are changing their rules from Monday. In particular, capacity will increase from less than 25% to nearly 50% of seats.

I see they've gone for the Welsh full list! No newspapers, singing, talking. And, worst of all, no touching litter!