Do Underground barriers retain Zone U12 tickets?

Brucey · 19 Feb 2016

Quick question: I've just bought a ticket to Zone U12 and will be travelling to South Kensington.

Do LUL barriers retain tickets on exit, like the National Rail gatelines?

(I need the ticket for expenses. And before someone says "get a receipt", my employer prefers the actual ticket for some reason.)

RailUK Forums

najaB · 19 Feb 2016

Brucey said:
Do LUL barriers retain tickets on exit, like the National Rail gatelines?

I can't remember my ticket ever being retained, but it's ages since I've had a paper ticket to a London Zone.

bb21 · 19 Feb 2016

AIUI LU gatelines do not retain any National Rail-issued tickets, but to be sure, use the manual gates.

amateur · 21 Feb 2016

can you buy zone U12 TICKETS? i thought they were abolished? Similarly, I thought if you buy a day travelcard, you could only purchase zone 1-6. If i buy a day travelcard (from Birmingham to London), can I buy zone U12 inclusive.

Brucey · 21 Feb 2016

amateur said:
can you buy zone U12 TICKETS? i thought they were abolished? Similarly, I thought if you buy a day travelcard, you could only purchase zone 1-6. If i buy a day travelcard (from Birmingham to London), can I buy zone U12 inclusive.

Zone U12 is available, Zone U1 is not. This is not a Travelcard, just a single/return on the LUL/DLR services.

amateur · 21 Feb 2016

Brucey said:
Zone U12 is available, Zone U1 is not. This is not a Travelcard, just a single/return on the LUL/DLR services.

I've never seen it on the TVM. So it's one journey outbound, and another journey return bound? I presume that's why the OP was asking if ticket barriers retain them?

How much do they cost? Do you just ask for a zone U12 day return (or single)? Do peak and off peak apply?

Brucey · 21 Feb 2016

amateur said:
I've never seen it on the TVM. So it's one journey outbound, and another journey return bound? I presume that's why the OP was asking if ticket barriers retain them?

How much do they cost? Do you just ask for a zone U12 day return (or single)? Do peak and off peak apply?

I don't think all TVMs retail them. Just asked for Zone U12, e.g. http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=CBG&dest=0790

It comes as two coupons, just like a normal two-part return. Origin is the NR station and destination is ZONE U12* LONDN.

Basically a single or return to somewhere on NR in the London Fare Zones on the ticket, plus a single/return on the underground or DLR to any station in Zone 1 or 2.

amateur · 21 Feb 2016

Brucey said:
I don't think all TVMs retail them. Just asked for Zone U12, e.g. http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=CBG&dest=0790

It comes as two coupons, just like a normal two-part return. Origin is the NR station and destination is ZONE U12* LONDN.

Basically a single or return to somewhere on NR in the London Fare Zones on the ticket, plus a single/return on the underground or DLR to any station in Zone 1 or 2.

The link you gave. I thought they were abolished and the only option if you include travel underground was Zone1-zone6. (otherwise oyster)

This is what I get:

http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=CBG&dest=1072

Brucey · 21 Feb 2016

amateur said:
The link you gave. I thought they were abolished and the only option if you include travel underground was Zone1-zone6. (otherwise oyster)

This is what I get:

http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=CBG&dest=1072

For a Travelcard, only Zone 1-6 is available. But for Zone U fares, 1-2 is available.

You can buy them online at most sites. Put Zone U12 in as your destination.

amateur · 21 Feb 2016

yes. I just checked online one a TOCs website.

why did I have it in my head that they were scrapped? I thought they were rid of about 5 or possibly 6 years ago!

bb21 · 21 Feb 2016

Zone U1 is most certainly still available, but priced at the same level as a Zone U12 add-on.

U-zone fares are just add-ons. No peak/off-peak difference.

For a same-day return, it is usually cheaper with an outboundary Travelcard. Last I knew of, Zone U1/U12 is an add-on of £3 each way, £6 return. Railcard discount as per normal arrangement.

Peter Mugridge · 22 Feb 2016

last time I used one, it was returned at the end of my Underground transit, but if in doubt ask at the barrier to be let through.

swt_passenger · 22 Feb 2016

amateur said:
yes. I just checked online one a TOCs website.

why did I have it in my head that they were scrapped? I thought they were rid of about 5 or possibly 6 years ago!

There was a change around ten years ago, but only to a minor detail of the way the validity was shown.

Travelcards used an R prefix before the applicable zone numbers, e.g. "R1256 Zones" but at some stage they changed to printing out a fuller text, such as "London Zones 1-6".

Point to point tickets to LU zonal destinations use a U prefix before the zone numbers.

I've found online discussions about the difference between R and U zones back in 2008, but I haven't found a definitive date for the change to the current format.

Someone needs to remind me what the previous scheme was though, and why they changed... :cry:

Compared to an out-boundary day travelcard tickets to "U" destinations can seem a bit superfluous, but of course they may be more useful to some people if using a period return, which cannot have an inclusive travlecard.

Tetchytyke · 22 Feb 2016

swt_passenger said:
Compared to an out-boundary day travelcard tickets to "U" destinations can seem a bit superfluous, but of course they may be more useful to some people if using a period return, which cannot have an inclusive travlecard.

They're useful if you are using Advance tickets from or to further afield, though, as you gain extra protection if there's an issue on the Underground and you miss your booked train. We use U12 tickets for business travel into London, as it's cheaper than an inboundary Travelcard and less hassle than sorting out Oyster.

bnm · 22 Feb 2016

They are also handy if you are making a period return involving travel across London and wishing to split ticket at London. No need to bother with Oyster if you don't have one, and you have the extra protection if delayed on the Underground.

amateur · 22 Feb 2016

why aren't they "obvious" on the TVMs. Or am I just thick/slow? Do I have to Type "Zone ...." manually to find it?

Whenever I type "London . . ." it just comes up with With London Terminals, and the option for Travel Card. Or would I have to go to a booking Office clerk, and explicitly state " Zone1Zone2DLR"

button_boxer · 22 Feb 2016

amateur said:
why aren't they "obvious" on the TVMs. Or am I just thick/slow? Do I have to Type "Zone ...." manually to find it?

Whenever I type "London . . ." it just comes up with With London Terminals, and the option for Travel Card. Or would I have to go to a booking Office clerk, and explicitly state " Zone1Zone2DLR"

They're in the system as "Zone U12* Londn" (with only one letter o), which is presumably why they don't come up searching for "London" (with two).

Brucey · 22 Feb 2016

swt_passenger said:
Compared to an out-boundary day travelcard tickets to "U" destinations can seem a bit superfluous, but of course they may be more useful to some people if using a period return, which cannot have an inclusive travlecard.

That's why I'm using one. Cambridge to London period return. Claiming as a business expense, so submitting one ticket/receipt is simpler than printing an Oyster/contactless history then having to highlight which journeys I want to claim.

amateur · 24 Feb 2016

Brucey said:
That's why I'm using one. Cambridge to London period return. Claiming as a business expense, so submitting one ticket/receipt is simpler than printing an Oyster/contactless history then having to highlight which journeys I want to claim.

I presume with a CBG to Zone U12 - you CAN'T join the UG at Tottenham Hale on the Liverpool Street line; But you CAN join the UG at Finsbury Park on the Kings Cross service?

Mojo · 24 Feb 2016

amateur said:
I presume with a CBG to Zone U12 - you CAN'T join the UG at Tottenham Hale on the Liverpool Street line; But you CAN join the UG at Finsbury Park on the Kings Cross service?

In the example you have given, you can board at Tottenham Hale, but this is a special case as there is joint availability ("interavailability") with tickets valid between Tottenham Hale and zone 1.

More information in section 7.3.3. of the RailUK fares & ticketing guide: http://www.railforums.co.uk/showpost.php?p=1315636

amateur · 24 Feb 2016

despite Tott Hale being in Zone 3?

Could you go Tott Hale to KGX on the Victoria Line for e.g?

Mojo · 24 Feb 2016

amateur said:
despite Tott Hale being in Zone 3?

Could you go Tott Hale to KGX on the Victoria Line for e.g?

In the example you have given, it does not matter what zone Tottenham Hale is in, as for NR tickets valid between [beyond] Tottenham Hale and Zone 1, you can travel on LU services because it is an interavailable route. However, ordinarily, you are right in that the ticket must include all zones through which you wish to travel on LU services, so if this agreement did not exist it would not be valid.

CyrusWuff · 24 Feb 2016

button_boxer said:
They're in the system as "Zone U12* Londn" (with only one letter o), which is presumably why they don't come up searching for "London" (with two).

It also depends on how the machine is programmed...Last I checked, if it was a Shere FAST machine, you had to enter "London Underground Zone <whatever>" to get the desired destination.

amateur · 29 Feb 2016

Brucey said:
I don't think all TVMs retail them. Just asked for Zone U12, e.g. http://www.brfares.com/#!fares?orig=CBG&dest=0790

It comes as two coupons, just like a normal two-part return. Origin is the NR station and destination is ZONE U12* LONDN.

Basically a single or return to somewhere on NR in the London Fare Zones on the ticket, plus a single/return on the underground or DLR to any station in Zone 1 or 2.

On a Saturday, with a NSE a Super Off Peak Day return costs £10.90.
A Day TravelCard costs £15.00.

Why can't I find the option for Zone U12 on a Saturday Super-off Peak Day Return. If it is available, how much would it cost on with a NSE from CBG?

Hadders · 29 Feb 2016

It's not available as a super off peak ticket. The add on would normally be £3 for each leg so the travelcard is better value, even when you take the railcard discount into account.

bb21 · 29 Feb 2016

There is no restriction on the fare type the add-on can be applied to AIUI, so this should have been available. The add-on with Railcard discount is £2 each way, making the U-zone fare very marginally cheaper, but of course for the sake of 10p, I am sure most people would opt for a little more flexibility.

Whether one can get any TIS to issue it is however an entirely different question.

amateur · 1 Mar 2016

Hadders said:
It's not available as a super off peak ticket. The add on would normally be £3 for each leg so the travelcard is better value, even when you take the railcard discount into account.

If the super - off peak day travelcard available after 12pm on weekdays for £15.00 (with a NSE). Or are they strictly weekend only?

causton · 1 Mar 2016

bb21 said:
There is no restriction on the fare type the add-on can be applied to AIUI, so this should have been available. The add-on with Railcard discount is £2 each way, making the U-zone fare very marginally cheaper, but of course for the sake of 10p, I am sure most people would opt for a little more flexibility.

Whether one can get any TIS to issue it is however an entirely different question.

I have never heard of this flat add-on supplement before...! I just thought it was just the price for London Terminals is X and the price for U12* is set differently etc. Although the return from WFJ - U12* is only £5.90 higher

bb21 · 1 Mar 2016

causton said:
I have never heard of this flat add-on supplement before...! I just thought it was just the price for London Terminals is X and the price for U12* is set differently etc. Although the return from WFJ - U12* is only £5.90 higher

OK then, "add-on".

It started out as an add-on I believe, and still is effectively listed as such in staff manuals with the rates listed separately, but getting a TIS to issue it can be a bit of a pain.

Brucey · 3 Apr 2016

Mojo said:
In the example you have given, it does not matter what zone Tottenham Hale is in, as for NR tickets valid between [beyond] Tottenham Hale and Zone 1, you can travel on LU services because it is an interavailable route. However, ordinarily, you are right in that the ticket must include all zones through which you wish to travel on LU services, so if this agreement did not exist it would not be valid.

The journey I posted the OP about is (finally) next week. I originally envisaged travelling down to King's Cross, however I need to make a quick stop en-route at Harlow Town (just to run to a shop to collect an order). Therefore I will be travelling on the Liverpool Street route and joining LUL at Tottenham Hale. Does anyone know if the barriers are likely to accept my ticket, or will I be needing to argue about the interavailablity?

Do Underground barriers retain Zone U12 tickets?

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