Do workplace parking charges increase rail usage?

[thenorthern]

At the moment there is a petition going around calling for NHS staff to get free workplace parking and I have been asked many times to sign it.

Personally I haven't signed it partially because I don't like signing petitions but also because I am unsure if giving workers free parking is a good idea. The reason for this being part of me thinks that free parking is an incentive to drive rather than using public transport or walking.

I was wondering though if there has been any research into if introducing workplace parking charges increases rail travel and if so by how much?

I know Nottingham has had a controversial Workplace parking levy since 2012 which means companies are taxed at £424 per car parking space per year which the city council claims is then spent on improving public transport. Both rail usage and tram usage in Nottingham has increased since 2012 although I don't know if that is down to the workplace parking levy.

 

[Alfonso]

Where there is a practical alternative, yes. Where there isn't, no.

 

[JonathanH]

Personally I haven't signed it partially because I don't like signing petitions but also because I am unsure if giving workers free parking is a good idea. The reason for this being part of me thinks that free parking is an incentive to drive rather than using public transport or walking.

One of the problems appears to be shift workers where the public transport may not be ideal.

Free parking for office workers and those who work 9-5 would appear to be fair game for taxation because they have public transport timetables written around their needs. Free parking for shift workers is another matter (and is possibly what the concern about NHS workers is all about).

Free parking clearly is something people take into account when deciding how to get to work - but equally ease of using public transport will also feature - a person can't get a train or bus if the service doesn't meet their needs.

 

[thenorthern]

One thing I have noticed is some hospitals do offer free parking to staff. My local one does which makes sense as it's 2 miles from the station in a semi rural area and the services from the station aren't brilliant and neither are the busses. In Central London however given the myriad of public transport and given shortage of space it makes sense to charge workers.

I don't know why I am awkward with motoring related policy for example I think it's stupid that electric cars and low emissions cars are exempt from the congestion charge.

 

[farci]

One of the problems appears to be shift workers where the public transport may not be ideal.

Free parking for office workers and those who work 9-5 would appear to be fair game for taxation because they have public transport timetables written around their needs. Free parking for shift workers is another matter (and is possibly what the concern about NHS workers is all about).

Free parking clearly is something people take into account when deciding how to get to work - but equally ease of using public transport will also feature - a person can't get a train or bus if the service doesn't meet their needs.

Shift work seems to be behind the Scottish Govt's programme to extend free parking for NHS workers in PPI-owned hosptal car parks after September. It's already free in Scottish NHS owned buildings. As reported in The Scotsman:
' (Health Minsister) Jeane Freeman said that discussions were ongoing, but the current agreement for the Scottish Government to cover the costs of staff parking at Edinburgh and Glasgow’s Royal Infirmaries and Dundee’s Ninewells Hospital was due to end in two months. She said she hoped the car park operators would do “what is right” rather than just focus on profits'
https://www.scotsman.com/health/cor...anent-free-hospital-parking-nhs-staff-2907633

 

[Taunton]

One of the main reasons why major business offices continue to move out of traditional urban centres to business parks etc is to escape parking difficulties for the considerable majority of their staff (and not only staff, visitors, deliveries, etc) who come by car. Tax the spaces and you will just drive them out more rapidly.

Of course local authorities have got form for this, having put parking controls all round urban and suburban shopping centres, and then wondering why all their traditional shops go bust while the customers move on to the nice out-of-town free parking development.

A real classic was Newham council, East London, who built their new central office in the middle of nowhere in the old docks, claimed it was public transport/bicycle friendly when it is nothing of the sort, and have all their staff parking on unsuitable roads making themselves a right nuisance. The offices do have significant parking, but guess what - it was reserved for councillors and the highest level officers. I understand that although they are an inner borough, the bulk of their professional staff do not live in the borough but further out, many into Essex, from where although road journeys are direct and quick, public transport provision for this sort of journey is non-existent.

 

[Camden]

Whether it does or doesn't is I think secondary to the punitive and somewhat mean mechanism.

It's a very negative way of approaching something like this, making something more unaffordable rather than making an alternative more affordable. Especially when there will be many who have no choice in the matter.

Certainly for hospitals, the whole notion of charging anyone for parking I find mean spirited.

 

[adamskiodp]

I work in an NHS hospital that has had parking issues for many years. Mostly due to selling off land that could have been used for parking. As a shift worker who has to be on call 24 hrs a day it is very difficult without parking. Also when on call we have to be within a certain travel time of the hospital which is impossible using public transport. The local bus service only goes to and from the town centre and stops after 9pm.

The hospital is on the edge of town and many colleagues who live nearby, feel unsafe walking, especially after dark. A lot of colleagues have to work across multiple sites up to 25 miles away as well. The hospital used to have an agreement with the local bus company to give NHS staff free travel between sites but that ended a few years ago.

The cycle storage areas are away from public areas and have no CCTV. Many bikes have been stolen as they are often left unattended for long periods as most clinical staff work 12 hr shifts.

Public transport is often a good alternative when in big cities but not so good in the sticks.

 

[squizzler]

Far better to demand NHS and other critical staff are paid properly in the first place. They can then choose to spend their wages on parking if they wish, or on other things if they don’t.

 

[edwin_m]

It would be better if employers asked their staff whether they wanted a space, and if they agreed not to then they would get paid the extra £400 a year or so it takes to provide and maintain one. Possible exceptions for shiftworkers and those who need a vehicle to do their jobs.

 

[thenorthern]

According to quite a few news articles the workplace parking levy has increased public transport usage in Nottingham. Public transport in the East Midlands is relatively poor so I suppose that makes it even better in the long term.

One thing I have noticed seems to work quite well is the "Centro Managed Free Car Park" stations in the West Midlands as it encourages people to take the train into Birmingham even if they have to drive part of the way. This means less congestion within the city. One thing I never understand though is why they still advertise it as "Centro Managed Free Park" on maps given that Centro hasn't existed as a brand for 15 years.

Certainly for hospitals, the whole notion of charging anyone for parking I find mean spirited.

I think one reason is to stop unauthorised people (people not visiting the hospital) using the car parks for free parking.

 

[geoffk]

I worked at County Hall in Worcester for several years. It's on the edge of the city with just one bus route (minibuses at that time) and a couple of others half a mile away. Most staff used to drive and would probably have done so even if parking charges had been imposed, as the alternatives were just not attractive and access from the M5 and other major roads quite good.

 

[Hadders]

Why should free parking be offered to NHS staff? What about other key workers, many of whom will earn less than workers in the NHS.

 

[JonathanH]

Why should free parking be offered to NHS staff? What about other key workers, many of whom will earn less than workers in the NHS.

I'm not sure that is the point. I think the point is why should people who work in hospitals not be offered free workplace parking when other similar employers in similar locations (for example an adjacent office) give their workers free parking.

 

[urbophile]

This is really connected to the 'incentives to travel by train' thread, in that the sort of car use we are discussing has few reasonable alternatives in many/most cases. NHS staff have enough to put up with already, without being forced to wait for (rare) buses on wet and windy nights in often unfriendly neighbourhoods. Yes of course people should be encouraged to use public transport when it is feasible, but many if not most hospitals are sited out-of-town, in locations that might be ideal for the catchment areas they serve, but not best placed for convenient rail and bus connections. Parking charges for outpatients and visitors are eye-watering enough, but it is scandalous that overworked and underpaid staff should be penalised just for coming to work.

The same factors apply to other workers, but the blame belongs to planners and developers who turned their backs on city centres to build in out-of-the way fields on the edge of towns.

 

[squizzler]

Parking charges for outpatients and visitors are eye-watering enough, but it is scandalous that overworked and underpaid staff should be penalised just for coming to work.

Never mind just providing free parking, why not provide free accommodation in spare wards, free food in the canteen, etc. Then we won’t have to pay them in money, saving a fortune to the taxpayer. And our NHS heroes, bless em, don’t have to trouble their heads choosing the pay-offs of various types of personal expenditure.

Or just treat NHS staff as adults who can budget the outgoings required to live and pay them properly. Car parking is a discretionary outgoing, and even amongst motorists is a choice vs, say, parking in nearby streets for free and walking a bit.

 

[edwin_m]

Or just treat NHS staff as adults who can budget the outgoings required to live and pay them properly. Car parking is a discretionary outgoing, and even amongst motorists is a choice vs, say, parking in nearby streets for free and walking a bit.

That's a related problem. Streets around hospitals that charge for parking tend to need residents permit schemes. However there's sometimes also the problem that with free parking the car park gets crowded out with staff and even people working nearby but not on the site. This may mean that people with a genuine need can't find a space, and may miss appointments which costs the NHS money. So there needs to be a staff permit scheme, which costs money too.

The hospitals in Nottingham use parking revenue to fund free buses from nearby P&R sites, which use the internal roads so most hospital departments are closer to a P&R bus stop than to a car park. Of the two main ones, City has frequent bus routes at both entrances, Queens has the same at the front as well as the UK's only tram stop within a hospital boundary.

 

[Hadders]

I'm not sure that is the point. I think the point is why should people who work in hospitals not be offered free workplace parking when other similar employers in similar locations (for example an adjacent office) give their workers free parking.

I can understand why we might want to give NHS workers free parking. But what about other key workers. For example a city centre supermarket worker is highly unlikely to get free parking even though they are a key worker (and probably earn far less than many NHS workers). Should they not get free parking as well.

 

[JonathanH]

I can understand why we might want to give NHS workers free parking. But what about other key workers. For example a city centre supermarket worker is highly unlikely to get free parking even though they are a key worker (and probably earn far less than many NHS workers). Should they not get free parking as well.

A city centre supermarket worker has the option to be an out-of-town supermarket worker - ie the market for their skills is more fluid than the market for the skills of an NHS worker who has to work wherever the hospital is.

Only a few hospitals are specifically sited near stations so the number of hospital workers commuting by train is probably limited (other than perhaps in London).

 

[flitwickbeds]

I think one reason is to stop unauthorised people (people not visiting the hospital) using the car parks for free parking.

As a few other people have suggested, this won't work in practice.

Take my home town of Kettering as an example. The hospital is a 20-30 minute walk from the train station. Both car parks charge (hospital £15 for 8 or more hours, station £11.50 a day).

If the hospital car park was free, by 10am all the spaces would be taken by people willing to walk and save £60 a week (£240 a month, £3000 a year). Unlike hospital visitors coming and going, those cars would be there until at least 6pm. What do you do if you have an appointment at the hospital or are coming to visit someone, when there are no spaces available?

 

[urbophile]

As a few other people have suggested, this won't work in practice.

Take my home town of Kettering as an example. The hospital is a 20-30 minute walk from the train station. Both car parks charge (hospital £15 for 8 or more hours, station £11.50 a day).

If the hospital car park was free, by 10am all the spaces would be taken by people willing to walk and save £60 a week (£240 a month, £3000 a year). Unlike hospital visitors coming and going, those cars would be there until at least 6pm. What do you do if you have an appointment at the hospital or are coming to visit someone, when there are no spaces available?

Shouldn't it be quite easy to require staff and patients to provide evidence of their right to park (staff ID or appointment letter) while charging (maybe at a deterrent rate) everyone else?

 

[squizzler]

I felt that hospitals of all places ought to set a positive to the wider community in terms of active travel. Why would other employers be expected to adopt enlightened best practice in travel planning and healthy travel choices if the NHS is very publicly doing the opposite, and trumpeting it as a benefit to their staff?

 

[flitwickbeds]

Shouldn't it be quite easy to require staff and patients to provide evidence of their right to park (staff ID or appointment letter) while charging (maybe at a deterrent rate) everyone else?

So you'd charge visitors at the new deterrent rate too?

 

[yorkie]

Why should free parking be offered to NHS staff? What about other key workers, many of whom will earn less than workers in the NHS.

I'm not sure that is the point. I think the point is why should people who work in hospitals not be offered free workplace parking when other similar employers in similar locations (for example an adjacent office) give their workers free parking.

I think @Hadders has a point; not all key workers get free parking. If you compare (say) education with the NHS (I've worked for both), the pay & conditions are so much better at the NHS it would vastly outweigh any benefits of free parking. Not that free parking would be of any benefit to me, as a proud non-car owner!

 

[edwin_m]

So you'd charge visitors at the new deterrent rate too?

To me the ideal system would be to charge people in general but to offer generous discounts for those who are too infirm to use public transport and are frequent visitors for their own medical needs or to visit relatives. This would entail some admin to confirm who was eligible and manage the system via ANPR or similar, which would be among the things covered by the parking charges. Likewise staff might get a discount if they worked shifts or lived in areas where public transport access wasn't practical.

 

[mmh]

As a few other people have suggested, this won't work in practice.

Take my home town of Kettering as an example. The hospital is a 20-30 minute walk from the train station. Both car parks charge (hospital £15 for 8 or more hours, station £11.50 a day).

If the hospital car park was free, by 10am all the spaces would be taken by people willing to walk and save £60 a week (£240 a month, £3000 a year). Unlike hospital visitors coming and going, those cars would be there until at least 6pm. What do you do if you have an appointment at the hospital or are coming to visit someone, when there are no spaces available?

I don't know Kettering, but it's difficult to imagine that anybody willing to walk an hour a day as part of their journey which already includes driving and a train hasn't already found somewhere to park away from the station. The number of people who would consider it must be tiny.

Your figures for savings are out incidentally - if you park there every day you're not going to be paying the daily rate so will be spending considerably less than you've stated.

 

[mmh]

To me the ideal system would be to charge people in general but to offer generous discounts for those who are too infirm to use public transport and are frequent visitors for their own medical needs or to visit relatives. This would entail some admin to confirm who was eligible and manage the system via ANPR or similar, which would be among the things covered by the parking charges. Likewise staff might get a discount if they worked shifts or lived in areas where public transport access wasn't practical.

Making benefits discretionary is expensive and deters people from accessing them.

 

[edwin_m]

Making benefits discretionary is expensive and deters people from accessing them.

Making them universal costs even more, especially when they run counter to travel and health policies.

 

[mmh]

Making them universal costs even more, especially when they run counter to travel and health policies.

That's not always a given. Parking revenue is a drop in the ocean of NHS funding. It's not far fetched to picture a system of applications, permits and enforcement costing more.

It's a manifesto pledge to make parking free in England for some groups and overnight staff. They have a problem that they scrapped parking charges for staff in Coronapanic, and now reversing that will not get good reaction in the press. As for policies, it's policy to make all hospital parking free in Scotland, it already is in Wales.

 

[Tetchytyke]

I felt that hospitals of all places ought to set a positive to the wider community in terms of active travel. Why would other employers be expected to adopt enlightened best practice in travel planning and healthy travel choices if the NHS is very publicly doing the opposite, and trumpeting it as a benefit to their staff?

My wife was an NHS staff member and it was a mandatory condition of her job that she drove. This was because she did home visits. The NHS trust still charged her eighty quid a month for the car park. It is nothing short of a disgrace.

To me the ideal system would be to charge people in general but to offer generous discounts for those who are too infirm to use public transport and are frequent visitors for their own medical needs or to visit relatives.

The problem, of course, is that many NHS treatments are not delivered locally. For anything complicated there has been a move to regional centres of excellence which specialise in certain treatments, rather than having local hospitals do a little bit of everything.

Recent example: my 10yo headbutted a goalpost when she was playing football in the school playground in the Lake District, and lost her two front teeth. Treatment took place at the nearest specialist dental hospital- 95 miles away in Newcastle. Given her village has one bus a week- summer Saturdays only- "take public transport" doesn't really work. This is not an uncommon situation.

It also assumes the hospital is conveniently situated for public transport. Some hospitals are. But many are not, even in big cities.