Do you actually have to make the entire journey in full?

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by pmgarvey, 17 Nov 2011.

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  1. pmgarvey

    pmgarvey Member

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    I'm going to be travelling up to Manchester Piccadily from Oxford on an Off-Peak Return, but it'd be a lot more convenient to return from Stockport. Is it against the rules to "start short", and if it is, would a single from Picc to Stockport be fine even if I don't actually make that journey?
     
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  3. jcollins

    jcollins Veteran Member

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    No perfectly acceptable for an Off Peak Return in this instance. An Advance Single is completely different though.
     
  4. cuccir

    cuccir Established Member

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    It depends on the ticket that you have. You can 'break your journey' - which includes starting or ending short - on ALL Anytime tickets and NO Advance tickets.

    For Off-Peak tickets or Super Off-Peak tickets it is usually allowed, but you have to check the validity code. For a Manchester to Oxford Off-Peak return the validity code is 2V. As you'll see, there are no restrictions on break of journey for this ticket so yes, you can can start your return journey in Stockport.
     
  5. Indigo2

    Indigo2 Established Member

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    Just to add that if it's a return journey, which this one seems to be, then you don't need to check the validity code - all off-peak and super off-peak returns always allow break of journey on the return leg. Break of journey on the outward leg may indeed be restricted though as cuccir says.
     
  6. north

    north Member

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    I don't believe that's true - a Super Off Peak return St Albans Abbey - Birmingham has validity code http://nationalrail.co.uk/pdfs/OPR_LK.pdf which appears to not allow BoJ at all.

    Indeed the NR conditions for Off Peak tickets general merely state
     
  7. button_boxer

    button_boxer Established Member

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    Just to add to the above that the outward half of a return ticket is only valid if the return half is completely unused. So with an Oxford to Manchester return it would be valid for me to start my outward journey at (say) Banbury, travel to Manchester and then back to Oxford, but if I then wanted to go from Oxford back to Banbury I'd need a new ticket - I couldn't use the "first bit" of the previous ticket that I didn't use before, as it is no longer valid once the return journey (from Manchester) has started.
     
  8. Indigo2

    Indigo2 Established Member

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    Hmm, I think north may have a point. When this has come up before I think the standard answer was that London Midland have made a mistake in writing the restrictions :)

    The national fares manual has this to say in the section with general conditions for off-peak returns:
    but for super off-peak returns the equivalent section is
    So maybe they can restrict it. I wonder is it different for super off-peak returns that used to be savers, rather than this kind of super off-peak return that is genuinely cheaper than the saver equivalent.

    In any case, if you remove the bit about super off-peak returns, I think my advice still stands that break of journey is always allowed on the return portion of an off-peak return.
     
  9. LexyBoy

    LexyBoy Established Member Fares Advisor

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    London Midland think they can bar BoJ on both legs of an Off Peak Return as well - a LM only London-Birmingham SVR carries restriction SK. As north says, there's nothing on NRE saying that it's always allowed.
     
  10. island

    island Established Member

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    That's not correct I'm afraid.
     
  11. SS4

    SS4 Established Member

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    I still think it's arguable whether LM make it clear enough that BoJ is forbidden to satisfy condition 16 of the NRCoC although for the OP's journey it's fine
     
  12. LexyBoy

    LexyBoy Established Member Fares Advisor

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    It's perfectly clear! The restrictions are clearly written on a pdf on a 5ΒΌ" floppy disk which is kept in a locked broom cupboard behind a sign saying "beware of the leopard"!

    (with apologies)
     
  13. jkdd77

    jkdd77 Member

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    But there is...

    The text posted on the National Rail website, which, according to ATOC, is meant to be "definitive", for Off-Peak and Super Off-Peak tickets states:
    http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/ticketterms/show?ticketTypeCode=SVR
    http://ojp.nationalrail.co.uk/service/ticketterms/show?ticketTypeCode=OPR

    "A break of journey is allowed on the outward portion unless otherwise indicated by a restriction shown against the ticket's validity code and is allowed on the return portion of your ticket."

    Many trainline-based websites carry the same wording.

    I agree with those who have suggested that, in the event of conflicting public information, the interpretation most favourable to the customer must prevail and therefore BoJ must be allowed on the return leg, regardless of restriction code.
     
  14. LexyBoy

    LexyBoy Established Member Fares Advisor

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    Ah, so there is. I actually remembered seeing that wording on NRE before, but since the wording on this page differs, I assumed they had changed it recently.

    There's definitely no question that BoJ is allowed on the return portion in that case, as NRE is "the definitive source of information on rail journeys in the UK".
     
  15. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The consensus from here previously I seem to remember was indeed that LM made an error as restricting BoJ on the return portion of an OPR is actually against NRE information. As there is no compulsion for a passenger wishing to break his/her journey on the return portion of a Super Off-Peak Return, the restriction on BoJ in that direction is unenforceable imo.
     
  16. island

    island Established Member

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    Can you please provide a link to the NRE information that prohibits restriction of BOJ on the return portion of a super off-peak return?
     
  17. LexyBoy

    LexyBoy Established Member Fares Advisor

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    Here - see jkdd77's post above - the links provided are to the pages which a user would find on clicking the fare type when planning a journey.
     
  18. bb21

    bb21 Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    In fact, are there any other TOCs who restrict BoJ on the return portion of a (Super) Off-Peak Return ticket? If it is just LM, then the discussion is kind of moot as they even encourage stopping short on these OPR tickets on their own website.
     
  19. pmgarvey

    pmgarvey Member

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    Thanks for the help :)
     
  20. island

    island Established Member

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    Hmm. It didn't say that on this page which I found. Should I be surprised? :|
     
  21. LexyBoy

    LexyBoy Established Member Fares Advisor

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    That's exactly why I was confused! I just assumed that the wording had changed, whereas there are just two versions up. At the same time.

    I think the page you've linked has been "simplified" without realising that some of those words are there for a reason.
     
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