Do you regret the choice you made in the EU Referendum?

[Domh245]

I'm guessing she doesn't know the meaning of democracy? 62% of Scots voted to remain, but this wasn't a Scotland only vote and unfortunately she doesn't seem to grasp this. Also as well she keeps on blaming England for pulling Scotland out of the EU, does she also forget that Wales also voted leave?

But that's shown the Scotland is the most Pro-remain area of the UK (and has the largest mandate of any area), and as the First Minister of Scotland, she has a duty to fight Scotland's cause (which in this case is to remain in the EU).

 

[GaryMcEwan]

But that's shown the Scotland is the most Pro-remain area of the UK (and has the largest mandate of any area), and as the First Minister of Scotland, she has a duty to fight Scotland's cause (which in this case is to remain in the EU).

Not on my behalf and the other 1 million Scots she doesn't. Anyway Scotland isn't a member state of the EU, the United Kingdom is. Does she know how politics works?

I voted to leave but because Scotland voted remain she has no interest in those that voted to leave. All I've heard from her over the last few days is how Scotland can remain in the EU, not even asking the question why so many Scots wanted to leave in the first place, not once has she asked that question. I've got one word that suitably sums her up but isn't suitable at all for here...

 

[me123]

Oh but you've got the likes of wee Nicola refusing to accept the vote.

She has accepted the vote, and acknowledged that she respects the result even though she disagrees with it. She also acknowledged that the feeling in the country she governs is different.

She has now lost two referendums and spat the dummy out like a spoilt brat.

No she hasn't spat the dummy out. She's First Minister of Scotland, and she is absolutely right to work out the best deal for Scotland and its people, whatever that may be. Scottish people want to remain in the EU, and she is right to consider options to keep Scotland within the EU. She has a democratic mandate to do so, although I argue that whatever answer she comes up with has to be put to the Scottish people in another referendum.

She is the FM of Scotland, nowhere else. It is her job to pursue the interests of the Scottish people. And the Scottish people (62% of them) want to stay in the EU. So it is absolutely correct that she pursues this aim.

I'm guessing she doesn't know the meaning of democracy? 62% of Scots voted to remain, but this wasn't a Scotland only vote and unfortunately she doesn't seem to grasp this.

I'm guessing you don't really understand the meaning of democracy? In a country, 62% of people voted for one outcome and will have another thrust upon them. That is not democracy. Our constitutional setup, the one we voted for less than two years ago, has been radically altered against the will of our people. It is only democratically right IMO that we have the option to explore the will of the Scottish people - we should have a referendum on continued EU membership regardless of what that takes - and I suspect that it will be independence from rUK. It may be that Scotland in that vote prefers to remain tied to the UK and to separate from the EU as well - but I think we have the right to make that choice.

Also as well she keeps on blaming England for pulling Scotland out of the EU, does she also forget that Wales also voted leave?

I've seen quite a few interviews and statements in which she specifically states "England and Wales". Although I'm not entirely sure what your point is there.

What's done is done, and she needs to forget about IndyRef2 for the foreseeable as this country is already divided enough and her starting this nonsense about another referendum just adds fuel to the fire.

I disagree. Scotland is moving further away from rUK, and simply allowing Scotland to be pulled out of the EU would be democratically unacceptable. If Scotland is to remain a member of the EU, it is preferable that we have that option sooner rather than later. The reality is that the UK is dividing politically, and trying to heal some divisions may not be in our best interests. I would argue that Scottish Independence will lead to a better relationship between Scotland and rUK - rather than trying to heal this insurmountable fracture, it may be better to accept that we're going in different directions and continue as two separate countries, each respecting the other's decision.
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Does she know how politics works?

She seems to have a better idea than a lot of people in Westminster at the moment. Scotland has a stable, functioning government. Westminster has imploded.

 

[backontrack]

On a similar note, there is a 14 year old who claims to have voted to remain...

*glares at DarloRich*

 

[me123]

I voted to leave but because Scotland voted remain she has no interest in those that voted to leave.

You could just as easily argue that the politicians in Westminster have no interest in the 48% of the country that voted to remain, because they're going to plough ahead with the divorce anyway. It's a ludicrous statement.

In a binary decision, a simple 50%+1 vote majority is all that is required. That is, essentially, the will of the people. Not everyone will agree, but a majority of people do. The net will of the Scottish people was to remain in the EU, as demonstrated on Thursday.

To turn your criticism back at you, do you have any idea how politics works?

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Of course she has spat the dummy, she has lost two referendums in less than two years and she just can't accept it.

So because I voted No in 2014 and Leave on Thursday she just puts voters like me to the curb and focuses on the ones that either support Independence or voted Remain and to hell with the rest of us because it doesn't fit in with the SNP norm.

I have already decided that if somehow she manages to get IndyRef 2 and this time gets it, I'll be leaving Scotland for pastures new, because there is no way in hell she is forcing another referendum on me that I do not want.
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You could just as easily argue that the politicians in Westminster have no interest in the 48% of the country that voted to remain, because they're going to plough ahead with the divorce anyway. It's a ludicrous statement.

In a binary decision, a simple 50%+1 vote majority is all that is required. That is, essentially, the will of the people. Not everyone will agree, but a majority of people do. The net will of the Scottish people was to remain in the EU, as demonstrated on Thursday.

To turn your criticism back at you, do you have any idea how politics works?

It wasn't a Scotland only vote....It was a 'United Kingdom' vote. I know the SNP refuse to accept this, but to them I say tough!

 

[backontrack]

Of course she has spat the dummy, she has lost two referendums in less than two years and she just can't accept it.

How can she have lost the EU referendum if her country voted for Remain? It's not her job to convince people in England, Wales and Northern Ireland to vote leave. She is just trying to pursue what her country voted for, and it's not like she's not giving them the chance to vote on it anyway.
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It wasn't a Scotland only vote....It was a 'United Kingdom' vote. I know the SNP refuse to accept this, but to them I say tough!

So countries can be denied what they've voted for by other countries? How, what's the word...democratic.

 

[me123]

It was a UK vote, surely you can see that the opinion in Scotland as a whole was very different to the opinion in rUK?

You do appear to recall the 2014 referendum. You will probably recall the promise made by the "No" campaigners then. They told us that the only way to secure Scotland's place in the EU was to vote "No" to independence. That has not turned out to be the case.

Voting "No" to independence was more than just rejecting one idea, it was signing up to another idea. It was signing up to the vision of Scotland as a member of the UK as a member of the EU. That has changed.

62% of Scottish people want to stay in the EU, and it is entirely democratically correct that our First Minister should seek to represent the majority of people in her country - I'm sorry that you are not in the majority on this occasion, but you are not. I think it is therefore entirely reasonable that should seek to represent the majority of people. And offering us an option to remain part of the EU, be it as an independent country or whatever comes out of these negotiations, is democratically correct.
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I have already decided that if somehow she manages to get IndyRef 2 and this time gets it, I'll be leaving Scotland for pastures new, because there is no way in hell she is forcing another referendum on me that I do not want.

Bye bye.

"Forcing other referendum" on you?!? It's democracy. It's a vote. She has not made a unilateral declaration of independence - that would be unacceptable to any sane person. When you voted "no" to independence, you voted "yes" to a country which was a member of the UK and a member of the EU. That has now changed. There is also a demonstration that the majority of people in the country want to take a different path. It is therefore entirely democratically correct that Scotland is offered a choice on which path it wants to take.

What is it about democracy that you disagree with?

 

[GaryMcEwan]

It was a UK vote, surely you can see that the opinion in Scotland as a whole was very different to the opinion in rUK?

You do appear to recall the 2014 referendum. You will probably recall the promise made by the "No" campaigners then. They told us that the only way to secure Scotland's place in the EU was to vote "No" to independence. That has not turned out to be the case.

Voting "No" to independence was more than just rejecting one idea, it was signing up to another idea. It was signing up to the vision of Scotland as a member of the UK as a member of the EU. That has changed.

62% of Scottish people want to stay in the EU, and it is entirely democratically correct that our First Minister should seek to represent the majority of people in her country - I'm sorry that you are not in the majority on this occasion, but you are not. I think it is therefore entirely reasonable that should seek to represent the majority of people. And offering us an option to remain part of the EU, be it as an independent country or whatever comes out of these negotiations, is democratically correct.

Well by reading various reports today then, the SNP do not represent 1 million people and they will most likely get another referendum forced on them.

Hmmm independent, but ruled by Brussels. Because that's independence. They'll force you to take the Euro, accept the Schengen Agreement and that'll just be the start of it...

 

[me123]

Well by reading various reports today then, the SNP do not represent 1 million people and they will most likely get another referendum forced on them.

The Conservative party don't represent the circa 19 million people who didn't vote for them. Should we all just pack up and leave too?

 

[DynamicSpirit]

It wasn't a Scotland only vote....It was a 'United Kingdom' vote. I know the SNP refuse to accept this, but to them I say tough!

It wasn't precisely a 'United Kingdom' vote. It was a vote by certain people who were deemed eligible by the Government. It involved oddities whereby Commonwealth citizens in the UK were allowed to vote, but EU citizens (who would arguably be affected far more dramatically) were not allowed to vote, even if they had been living here for decades, were on the electoral register, and had clearly made the UK their permanent home. 16 and 17 year olds were excluded despite some calls to include them.

Curiously, British citizens who had lived abroad for > 15 years were also excluded (despite that the ones who lived in Europe had a very clear interest in the referendum).

Incidentally, it's noteworthy that all the groups who were excluded from voting, but for whom you could put a good case that they should have been allowed to vote were groups likely to vote overwhelmingly to remain.

 

[me123]

Hmmm independent, but ruled by Brussels. Because that's independence. They'll force you to take the Euro, accept the Schengen Agreement and that'll just be the start of it...

Currently sounds preferable to staying in the UK in my opinion. The UK is an absolute shambles at the moment.

 

[backontrack]

Currently sounds preferable to staying in the UK in my opinion. The UK is an absolute shambles at the moment.

As one Scottish spin doctor would have it, it's an 'omnishambles'.

 

[GaryMcEwan]

Currently sounds preferable to staying in the UK in my opinion. The UK is an absolute shambles at the moment.

Sounds like my idea of hell, the sooner Westminster invoke Article 50 the better...

 

[Xenophon PCDGS]

I still maintain that my vote to remain was based upon a careful consideration and deep research of the matters involved and upon those two choices offered on the ballot paper whereas it appears from listening to a number of people being interviewed who made their decisions on matters extraneous to what the referendum was actually about.

 

[St Rollox]

Absolutely not, and if there was afnother referendum I would vote to leave again.

I'd never have guessed you were a Leaver, Gary.
Never in a month of Sunday's.

 

[cf111]

I voted remain and would vote remain again. I still don't know what the "leave" side was actually offering in terms of a settlement with the EU and by the tone of the last few days it seems neither do they.

 

[Trog]

Interesting if it is un democratic for Scotland to be removed from the EU by a UK wide vote that its population did not agree with. What would the feeling be if the out vote in England and Wales had been a bit lower but still out, and the in vote in Scotland had been enough to tip the whole UK vote to in. Would that be reason enough for England and Wales to have a referendum on if Scotland should be ejected from the UK?

 

[Shaw S Hunter]

Interesting if it is un democratic for Scotland to be removed from the EU by a UK wide vote that its population did not agree with. What would the feeling be if the out vote in England and Wales had been a bit lower but still out, and the in vote in Scotland had been enough to tip the whole UK vote to in. Would that be reason enough for England and Wales to have a referendum on if Scotland should be ejected from the UK?

I daresay that post is partly in jest. However as part of a wider long-term settlement it might be pragmatic for England and Wales to be ejected leaving a United Kingdom of Scotland and Northern Ireland still in the EU. But could Holyrood provide the same guarantees about self-determination for Northern Ireland as are currently provided by Westminster?