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Do you think First Class is worth it?

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Bromley boy

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Or some which will quite happily pay the premium to be able to take their time in boarding on a non-stop service, over a probably crowded Piccadilly Line service or a probably crowded Heathrow Connect service which calls at the likes of Ealing.

Yes quite, and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. I've used HEX myself, paid for by my then employer, and it was good.

Although I remember thinking at the time I'd feel pretty short changed if I'd paid the large HEX premium for such a short journey in a train that is only slightly quicker, slightly more comfortable and still prone to being quite crowded at certain times. It can also work our quicker to take the Connect if you've just missed a HEX. Admittedly I haven't used it for a few years so perhaps things have changed.

Horses for courses and of course peoples' perceptions of value vary. I also agree the Piccadilly line is a poor comparator as it's far less comfortable and takes longer.

I wonder if there are stats on how many HEX travellers are pleasure trippers paying for themselves as opposed to business travellers.
 
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I'd have First Class for those paying big money to travel and include the complimentary food and drink but then I'd have a carriage of premium class whereby you pay for the food and drink. If I paid for first I'd expect it to be of a high quality
 

alexl92

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I once got an upgrade on TPE from Manchester Pic to Preston for about £3. To sit in a quiet section on a single seat with space to myself on an otherwise packed train = totally worth it.

If I had the money I’d always go first on TPE. On VTEC I’m not so bothered as I don’t often travel around rush hour and their standard class is pretty nice anyway.
 

AlterEgo

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How many first class airline passengers don't get picked up at the airport anyway and how many none first class airline passengers bother paying first class to get the train from the airport? Genuine question because if you go on airliners.net most premium passengers get picked up or dropped off at their destination by a car paid for with their ticket.

Most business and first class tickets don’t come with a chauffeur. There aren’t many airlines that do that any more.
 

AlterEgo

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EMT: Upgraded onboard a Voyager because Standard combined with a large case just wasn't good (just like any other Voyager). 1st was better though still not a great deal of room for luggage.

EMT don’t have Voyagers. They have Meridians, which are a bit like Voyagers only a bit less rubbish.
 

Mugby

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When I looked inside a Thameslink unit at Bedford station recently, it made me wonder how they dare call it First Class, and more to the point, how they dare charge extra for it!
 

Bletchleyite

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I consider First Class good value if (a) it is 2+1 seating, and (b) it is priced at no more than 1.6 x any given Standard fare I may wish to use (Off Peak/Super Off Peak mainly, but also sometimes Anytime, on which LM overprice it somewhat). So sometimes it works for me, sometimes not.
 

Bletchleyite

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When I looked inside a Thameslink unit at Bedford station recently, it made me wonder how they dare call it First Class, and more to the point, how they dare charge extra for it!

The seats are wider to be fair. Not like GTR Southern "first class", the extent of which is the provision of antimacassars (and more chance of a seat).

That said it's a downgrade from Class 319 1st, which is of InterCity standard.
 

Bromley boy

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I consider First Class good value if (a) it is 2+1 seating, and (b) it is priced at no more than 1.6 x any given Standard fare I may wish to use (Off Peak/Super Off Peak mainly, but also sometimes Anytime, on which LM overprice it somewhat). So sometimes it works for me, sometimes not.

Why 1.6 x as opposed to any other measure, out of interest?
 

All Line Rover

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One of the main benefits I suppose [of 1st] is the normally quieter atmosphere. Once on a VTWC Glasgow-London the entire carriage and I heard a bunch of neds loudly debating whether Fernando Torres was a "prolific" striker... Thankfully, they left at Carlisle, leaving behind a fair quantity of empty cans. I don't think you'd get that in 1st.

Quite possible at the weekend. Less so in the quiet carriage (Coach A). So no, the ambiance in 1st isn't always better than in Std - particularly on VTWC's 9-car Pendolinos.
 

RJ21

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Do we have to play this one every four - six weeks. Depending on route, day & time of day the pros & cons change. Going long distance, ie escaping London for Scotland then yes, every day of the year. Going down to Woking on SWR then probably not.
 

Steveman

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First class is always expensive but is it worth what you pay for?

I think on high speed or long distance trains, they are worth it. It's more luxurious, you get food and refreshments.



Thoughts?

Luxurious ? on ordinary UK trains there is no such thing or even close to luxurious.
 

stut

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If I can pay a little more for 1+2 seating with extra legroom on a longer journey then I will (I'm quite tall). The rest of it I don't really care about.

The "limo service" on first/business class on flights was always something of a gimmick. It was usually a shared service, and they were almost always ridiculously cautious about timing, as well as being pretty limited to a certain radius around the airport (people do travel to Heathrow from places other than London, you know). Being picked up in an overblown taxi 5 hours before your flight to be sent on a grand tour of South London only to arrive at the airport 1h30 before you would if you went yourself... No, not such a great gimmick.

Business class on airlines is about both speeding you through the airport and comfort on board. The best first class experiences have dedicated terminals and airside transfer (e.g. Frankfurt) but in general, you get priority security, lounge access, priority boarding, and comfier seating. The premium isn't always as great as you'd think, and regular flyers get all the priority stuff anyway.

Where the low-cost airlines have succeeded is in unbundling all the priority stuff. If I want to pay £3 for priority security without paying over the odds for someone else's free booze, then I can. If I want to pay £5 for priority boarding (or get it anyway because of the screaming baby I have with me) then I can. Sometimes I do, because I like turning up to the airport late and taking everything as carry-on luggage. Works for me.
 

SaveECRewards

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How many first class airline passengers don't get picked up at the airport anyway and how many none first class airline passengers bother paying first class to get the train from the airport? Genuine question because if you go on airliners.net most premium passengers get picked up or dropped off at their destination by a car paid for with their ticket.

British Airways is the largest airline at Heathrow, it also runs more services with 1st class (Virgin Atlantic Upper Class is business, not first, BA lounghauls usually have 4 classes on-board) BA does not provide ground transportation to their 1st class passengers. In the end it's just a gimmick anyway, if you're spending £4k+ on a ticket you won't notice the extra for a cab and if you're travelling with points then you're likely to use whichever method to get to the airport you'd usually do.
 

iainbhx

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Most business and first class tickets don’t come with a chauffeur. There aren’t many airlines that do that any more.

I've flown First Class about a dozen times in the last decade, mainly with Lufthansa. The only time I've had a car has been to take me from the plane at a remote stand in Frankfurt to the Terminal (and vice versa). I've usually got to the airport by train or by taxi, I will admit to having used HEX a few times, but never considered First Class.

DB First was very nice from Berlin Hbf to Frankfurt Hbf the other week on a Sparpreis.
 

mrcheek

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I only use First Class when doing an All Line Rover, which I do once a year.
Its certainly worth it, since it isnt all that much extra. And when youre doing 14 consecutive days on the train, its very nice to have extra legroom, and a single seat to yourself. THeres also plenty of trains where you wouldnt likely get a seat in Standard Class at busy times.

Southern and Southeastern are obviously disappointing, but it is nice to be able to sit somewhere thats a bit quieter than standard
 

takno

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I don't normally travel first class, but having done a bunch of journeys over the last couple of weeks:
- VTEC was excellent - comfy seats, quiet, nice food, alright drinks good service north of York. Replaced a crew south of York where one of the First class hosts sat chatting to an off-duty staff member and didn't attempt to work. My impression is that the latter part of the journey is more typical than the former
- Greater Anglia was horrible. The seats may be new, but they are built reclined with no option to sit upright. That makes the tables unusable and by the end my back was murder. It was only a quid and I got a free coffee, but coffee and a pastry is only a quid at Colchester station anyway.
- XC was pretty good. The food was only a chicken wrap and there's no free booze, but there was no expectation of anything else, and the hosts were up and down the train regularly to offer refreshments. The seats on the 125s are fine - I think they're the same ones as on VTEC. On Voyagers they're not so good, but still okay
- VTWC was a massive disappointment. Going from Birmingham to Scotland it was busy all the way on a pendo which empties right out in standard by Preston. A screaming child was provided in first for ambience. Service was attentive, but there was virtually no beer on board. Compared to all the nice pictures of hot food on the website the food was... a wrap (which wasn't even as good as the XC one). The seats were okay, but having someone opposite meant they were not as good as having an accessible seat in standard.
- Didn't get first class on the Southwest Railway train to Salisbury. Regretted it due to standing outside the toilet the whole way, but I can't say as I'm a fan of paying a premium just to get a seat on a weekend train though

Overall, I'd pay 20 quid more on Intercity (except GA) without batting an eyelid, since I usually blow a tenner on food anyway. I might pay 40 more on a long journey with a high risk of standard being full. Any more than that and somebody else would have to be paying.
 

ChiefPlanner

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Consider the Swiss network - where (admittedly a very wealthy country) - the standard and usage of 1st class - even on local/ish and regional trains appears to be high. Too often in the case of say Thameslink , Ist class is a place where miscreants target and lounge in off peak.

Somewhat tired of this - and especially removing their debris off tables off peak - there were 9 lager cans and other things on the 20xx off St Pancras the other night. Little attempt at marketing off peak 1st class on such routes.
 

takno

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Consider the Swiss network - where (admittedly a very wealthy country) - the standard and usage of 1st class - even on local/ish and regional trains appears to be high. Too often in the case of say Thameslink , Ist class is a place where miscreants target and lounge in off peak.

Somewhat tired of this - and especially removing their debris off tables off peak - there were 9 lager cans and other things on the 20xx off St Pancras the other night. Little attempt at marketing off peak 1st class on such routes.
I'm not really comfortable with the notion that people drinking lager on trains are automatically miscreants, and particularly not if the implication is that they didn't have a first class ticket. The number of cheap advance tickets kicking around now mean that first class often has a pretty similar mix of people in it to standard, and that shouldn't be considered a bad thing.

As to leaving the rubbish lying around, I try not to do it in first or standard, but it's not always obvious where there is a bin, and if your hands are full then frankly picking up waste and carrying it off the train onto a station where there may very well be no bins isn't my top priority. Alcohol containers are even more likely to be left because of the preponderance of places with public drinking by-laws which I don't want to be accused of breaching.
 

All Line Rover

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Thameslink doesn't offer Advance tickets, and the bins in the 1st compartments are clearly visible.
 

PaxmanValenta

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First class is always expensive but is it worth what you pay for?

I think on high speed or long distance trains, they are worth it. It's more luxurious, you get food and refreshments, Grand Central has excellent first class for example.

Whereas on commuter or regional trains the first class is just a different section with perhaps some more armrests and tables. Not to mention, depending on the area, you'll get a load of yobs sitting in it anyway.
Thameslink probably has the worst first class, with just tables added.

Thoughts?

I think there should be 3 classes on reserved seats on long distance trains. First, Standard and No-frills. The latter could apply on Voyagers and Class 800s where you pay less if the seat has no window view. I think a seat not lining up with a window if reserved for a journey exceeding say 3 hours should be offered at a 50% reduction of the standard class fare and 25% reduction for journeys exceeding 1.5 hrs.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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GWR HST/180, VTEC 225/HST, VT 390/221 always worth it for me, and I’m a massive picky snob!! I can’t not do first on the above trains, even the weekend service is satisfactory to me.

I’d probably fork out to upgrade on HT, TPEX, GC and EMT too.

SW, SN, SE, SR, TL perhaps not.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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I think there should be 3 classes on reserved seats on long distance trains. First, Standard and No-frills. The latter could apply on Voyagers and Class 800s where you pay less if the seat has no window view. I think a seat not lining up with a window if reserved for a journey exceeding say 3 hours should be offered at a 50% reduction of the standard class fare and 25% reduction for journeys exceeding 1.5 hrs.

I agree about the class thing but 50% reduction for a journey less than 1.5 hours is not at all realistic.
 

AFC440

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For the price, Grand Central offer an excellent First Class service. Not so many freebies as Virgin, but the staff make more of an effort to keep the carriages clean for customers due to board after others have left.

SWR is a mixed bag. The super off peak walk up fares are good but the quality on the 444's is poor and just looks bland. By contrast, the class 159's might be older trains but the carriages just feel a lot closer to what you'd expect in First Class.
 

TT-ONR-NRN

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Ha if you dislike the first class on 444s you should see the awful state of first on the 450s!
 

Parallel

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For me, really it all depends on the £££.

I'm not especially well paid, but I do enjoy peace and quiet on trains. Most trains I travel on don't have first class, but if I am doing a longer distance journey and there is a decent first class fare going, then why not.

The only first class I have used have been on GWR HSTs, GWR 180s, GWR 166s, SWT 158/9s and Arriva Trains Wales 'Premier' service. I was considering using the Business Zone on Chiltern's silver mainline sets but the seats in standard were really comfortable anyway.

GWR HSTs win it for me. Not on a walk up fare but for decent advance fares - The seats are super comfortable and the lighting is dimmed, and also for the snacks and drinks. Earlier this year, some cheap advance fares were available at a lower cost than standard, between Newquay and Exeter so we made use of these. My friends had never used first class with GWR before but were really impressed.

GWR 180s are also good with seats that recline quite far back. The refreshment offering is reduced slightly and the other niggly thing is that first class isn't in an end carriage, so you get quite a lot of people walking down the aisle. Other than that, pretty good.

SWT was not bad for what I paid on their 159. For an advance single first class, it cost me £12 odd between Trowbridge and London Waterloo which is crazy. Standard class was £9. I find the first class seats really comfortable on the 159s, but there isn't much in the way of a service.

ATW's was possibly the best. Old fashioned super comfy seats and a complimentary meal that was absolutely delicious, and the alcohol sold was at a very reasonable price. The problem is, there are two trains a day on the whole of the ATW network that offer this, meaning it is usually not an option.

The 165s/166s, the less said about those the better.

With Chiltern, an standard class advance single from Marylebone to Moor St only cost me £3.65!! Crazy. I couldn't really justify the extra for the business zone when that was all I paid in the first place!
 
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Wombat

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I only really care about the legroom - I'm tall, most of which is my legs, and I also have a dodgy back. I recently had to go from Paddington to Cardiff on GWR (I think) and travelled first class. It was quite pleasant. A couple of months later I did the same trip and couldn't justify the cost of an upgrade, so resigned myself to standard. To my surprise, that was also quite pleasant with perfectly acceptable legroom even for a freak like me. That's the first time I've gone cross-country in standard in quite a few years and it was far better than I expected.

The coach was full of terrible people, which isn't the TOC's fault. I might go for first in future to get away from them.
 

whhistle

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It's a shame there aren't First Class standards.

I find it strange that East Midlands Trains don't offer breakfast on all morning trains, and from what I read, nothing that great during the day. Yet Virgin West Coast have a good offering in the morning and throughout the day.
 
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