Do you think that the UK switching to electric vehicles is realistic?

[Ken H]

My daughter has a car. her husband has another. Their daughter and son have cars (both working, no suitable buses). If they all went EV, what would be the load on their home electric? Would the main circuit breaker go bang? When I drive down their road there are quite a few houses with 3-4 cars outside. Could the estate electric supply manage if all those went EV? If not, who pays for the upgrade?

 

[AM9]

If it was the Volvo XC40 then it wasn't 10 years, they give a mileage value for the break-even point which depends on assumptions about the electricity used, for the EU28 average electricity CO2 it was ~52,000 miles to break-even, assuming renewable electricity it was 29,000 miles to break-even.

So someone with a company car driving 15,000+ miles each year on a 100% renewables tariff, break-even is under 2 years. Private motorist doing 6,000 miles per year on a standard tariff, around 8 years to break-even.

But one factor to consider is that electricity is getting steadily greener and cleaner, so the EV gets better over time.

Volvo XC40 report

And the carbon hit of battery manufacturer get's less per kWh every years as development progresses. Then there's the carbon re-cycling of many components including the battery which will allow a far greater proportion of the materials to be re-used. Meanwhile, the IC vehicles will make virtually no progress in carbon terms.
On the subject of private motorist energy carbon, more and more owners will be sourcing much of their own motoring energy from their own solar installations.

 

[MotCO]

I will preface my comments by saying that, although I hope to buy a new car in the next 12 - 18 months, it will not be battery EV. The initial purchase price is too high and the range not sufficient as others have noted.

However, what has not been noted so far is:

• The cost of ICE cars will increase since their sales will reduce, and their development costs will be spread over fewer cars;
• There will probably be fewer new models of ICE cars - why should car manufacturers invest in new ICE models when they will not be able to sell them for much longer?
• Even though there are new changing points being installed, others have commented that some are not working (I like the story about an underground charger only activated by a mobile phone, but there was no phone signal - what a waste!), and I have seen reports of none being available since others have got there first. So even though this might be your 'natural break after 150 miles', you might not be able to charge. And how long do you wait for one to become available?
• Are cables 'locked' onto a car when it is being charged? If not, I can imagine the local low life taking great delight in unplugging your car so that your overnight charge did not take place.
• There are few places in the world where some of the components of EV batteries are found. We have seen the impact of restictions on supply lines, and being held hostage by hostile states. Would we want to be beholden to states who may turn hostile?

 

[GLC]

However, what has not been noted so far is:

• The cost of ICE cars will increase since their sales will reduce, and their development costs will be spread over fewer cars;

Perhaps, although atleast some ICE have already announced that either their ICE development has finished, or is onto the final generation. Many car manufacturers have been standardising into a very small pool of drivetrain components for years anyway e.g. BMW have three gearboxes, and 4 engines, the later of which are modular and so cylinders can be added and subtracted. This powers the entire range of Mini BMW and Rolls Royce.

• There will probably be fewer new models of ICE cars - why should car manufacturers invest in new ICE models when they will not be able to sell them for much longer?

ICE cars can still be sold for another 8 years, which is typically a full generation anyway. Beyond that, they can also still be sold, provided they have “significant” zero emission range. Already many new ICE cars are sold was “mild hybrid”. These hybrid systems will simply be expanded over the coming years

• Even though there are new changing points being installed, others have commented that some are not working (I like the story about an underground charger only activated by a mobile phone, but there was no phone signal - what a waste!), and I have seen reports of none being available since others have got there first. So even though this might be your 'natural break after 150 miles', you might not be able to charge. And how long do you wait for one to become available?

Not enough chargers is a real issue absolutely

• Are cables 'locked' onto a car when it is being charged? If not, I can imagine the local low life taking great delight in unplugging your car so that your overnight charge did not take place.

Cables are certainly locked to the car for my EV, and for every charger I have ever used. Unlocking the car is the only way to release the charging cable

• There are few places in the world where some of the components of EV batteries are found. We have seen the impact of restictions on supply lines, and being held hostage by hostile states. Would we want to be beholden to states who may turn hostile?

The difference here is that the battery is a one time product, versus the stream of petrol/diesel supplies. A country may well hold supplies of vital parts of battery production hostage, but that does not to stop the current supply of batteries happily charging and powering devices. Self sufficiency in electricity production is of course key to that, but that is an issue whether or not EVs exist.

 

[The Ham]

My daughter has a car. her husband has another. Their daughter and son have cars (both working, no suitable buses). If they all went EV, what would be the load on their home electric? Would the main circuit breaker go bang? When I drive down their road there are quite a few houses with 3-4 cars outside. Could the estate electric supply manage if all those went EV? If not, who pays for the upgrade?

It depends on a lot of factors, for instance of each of the 4 cars was only doing fairly limited milage and could charge of a 3 pin plug overnight then it's likely that it'll be fine.

Conversely if there was a need for a few of the now rapid home chargers then it would certainly cause issues without a power upgrade.

 

[AM9]

It depends on a lot of factors, for instance of each of the 4 cars was only doing fairly limited milage and could charge of a 3 pin plug overnight then it's likely that it'll be fine.

Conversely if there was a need for a few of the now rapid home chargers then it would certainly cause issues without a power upgrade.

Both of those issues are based on the current situation where the majority of cars start charging when the owner plugs in and initiates the charge. The probablt difference is that smart chargers will make a better job of managing charging co-operatively to preserve supply integrity. Already, new chargers must have randomly applied delays to the actual commencement of charging. This is for the first ten minutes after the cycle is initiated and cannot be switched off, therefore the chances of a mass switch-on creating a surge and possible local overload are virtually eliminated. Then there is the 'priority settings' that they will have. This will give the user the option of when and how the charge is undertaken, mainly to allow the use of lower cost energy if it can be applied when overall demand is lower.
Say a car is connected to its charger at 19:00 hrs and it is needed at 07:00 the following morning. With a 7kW charger, there is a theoretical charge opportunity of 84kWh during that period. Of course few cars will actually need that amount of charge and many wouldn't have an 84kWh battery anyway so for most users a moderate charge of, say 40kWh or less would be more than adequate. By setting a smart charge programme, the energy would be delivered by autonomous negotiation with the supplier when the supply was not under stress. For those that thouight that they needed to charge immediately, a higher tariff would help focus their minds as to whether it was actually needed. It's much the same type of nudge that 'white meters' or 'economy 7' arrangements have been doing for decades, i.e. supply and demand. For extreme cases, a smart charger could be programmed to feed some of its charge back into the grid at a peak demand time, and receive payment for it, to recharge when the energy is available on a low tariff, indeed, on occasions, smart owners could actually get their vehicles charged for zero cost through such a scheme.
This panicking about the power availability when many more vehicles are EVs is unnecessary and the higher volume of vehicles will create a good levelling impact on demand and probably reflect similar average charging demand per evening/night to be 5-10kWh per vehicle per 24hrs, because the average mileage per vehicle in the UK was around 20miles per day in 2019.

 

[DelayRepay]

My daughter has a car. her husband has another. Their daughter and son have cars (both working, no suitable buses). If they all went EV, what would be the load on their home electric? Would the main circuit breaker go bang? When I drive down their road there are quite a few houses with 3-4 cars outside. Could the estate electric supply manage if all those went EV? If not, who pays for the upgrade?

Others have answered about how the charging technology can address this, but the simpler answer is that I think it's unlikely they'd need to charge all four cars every night. If they're just making relatively short journeys to work, then surely they'd take it in turns to use the charger. And if someone needed to make a longer journey they'd make sure they used the charger the night before.

I'm in the position of needing to change my car, and have seriously looked at an EV. The only reason I won't be getting an EV is cost. I am lucky enough to have a drive at home so could charge up here. When I've been making longer journeys I've been looking out for places to charge and generally I've found that my longer journeys already include a stop-off (e.g. for lunch) somewhere that I'd be able to charge up.

For people living in flats, I've lived in two flats both of which had residents parking. It would not surprise me if in the future chargers are installed in these car parks, maintained by the management company in the same way that they already maintain the car park surface, gardening, lighting etc.

Quite a few years ago, I lived in a Victorian terraced house and parking was always a problem. Parking will still be a problem but I don't see why the street couldn't have charging points installed, just like some streets used to have rows of parking meters (before everything moved to apps and permits). But even in this scenario, you need to remember that there's no need to charge every night and charging elsewhere, e.g. at work, at the supermarket, at the cinema etc will be adequate for most people. There's also scope for innovation, e.g. businesses allowing local residents to park there overnight to charge.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Others have answered about how the charging technology can address this, but the simpler answer is that I think it's unlikely they'd need to charge all four cars every night. If they're just making relatively short journeys to work, then surely they'd take it in turns to use the charger. And if someone needed to make a longer journey they'd make sure they used the charger the night before.

Exactly. Consider how often you fill up with petrol/diesel. For most smaller cars once things get more established (MG already have 250 mile range on their small estate), you'll need to charge roughly twice that often. For most people that won't be every day - it'll be more like one to two times a week or even less often. With four cars in a family and one charger that'll work just fine.

I'm in the position of needing to change my car, and have seriously looked at an EV. The only reason I won't be getting an EV is cost. I am lucky enough to have a drive at home so could charge up here. When I've been making longer journeys I've been looking out for places to charge and generally I've found that my longer journeys already include a stop-off (e.g. for lunch) somewhere that I'd be able to charge up.

For people living in flats, I've lived in two flats both of which had residents parking. It would not surprise me if in the future chargers are installed in these car parks, maintained by the management company in the same way that they already maintain the car park surface, gardening, lighting etc.

Yes, I would expect this to become the norm, initially in new developments (as a big selling point) but then retrospectively.

Quite a few years ago, I lived in a Victorian terraced house and parking was always a problem. Parking will still be a problem but I don't see why the street couldn't have charging points installed, just like some streets used to have rows of parking meters (before everything moved to apps and permits). But even in this scenario, you need to remember that there's no need to charge every night and charging elsewhere, e.g. at work, at the supermarket, at the cinema etc will be adequate for most people. There's also scope for innovation, e.g. businesses allowing local residents to park there overnight to charge.

Yep. I think with such streets it'll need to be changed to parking bays each with a charger (which can also be used to deal with the pavement parking issue by making such streets progressively into controlled parking zones and marking said bays properly). People get so possessive about spaces in such streets that it'll have to be "all or none" - they won't be shared nicely. But providing say 13A charger bollards to a number of bays lower than the number of houses is hardly going to be a difficult electrical supply problem. In terms of charging for them (!) it'd just be an uplift on the price of a permit, I guess, using a model based on an assumption of how often an average person will take a full charge.

 

[py_megapixel]

Yep. I think with such streets it'll need to be changed to parking bays each with a charger (which can also be used to deal with the pavement parking issue by making such streets progressively into controlled parking zones and marking said bays properly). People get so possessive about spaces in such streets that it'll have to be "all or none" - they won't be shared nicely. But providing say 13A charger bollards to a number of bays lower than the number of houses is hardly going to be a difficult electrical supply problem.

I'd probably favour charging sockets in lamp posts over installing new bollards.

In terms of charging for them (!) it'd just be an uplift on the price of a permit, I guess, using a model based on an assumption of how often an average person will take a full charge.

I'm not sure that's a good idea, as it effectively makes people with smaller (and thus generally safer in an urban environment) and more efficient vehicles subsidise people with large inefficient ones.

By all means charge for electricity on the same bill as the parking permit, but it should be metered and charged based on the actual amount of electricity consumed.

 

[DelayRepay]

By all means charge for electricity on the same bill as the parking permit, but it should be metered and charged based on the actual amount of electricity consumed.

I agree - charge based on usage. This is exactly the same as it works today (I don't subsidise my neighbour's petrol), and is the same way it will work for people who have driveways and home chargers (you pay for the installation of the charger then pay for what you use via your domestic electricity bill).

A question for those who have EVs - is it possible to charge one EV from another? In the same way that if I get a flat battery, I can get someone to jump start me, could a fellow EV driver transfer enough charge to my car to get me going and allow me to drive to a charging point? Or is it a case of calling for a tow-truck?

 

[Bletchleyite]

I'd probably favour charging sockets in lamp posts over installing new bollards.

Trouble with that is that you can't provide one in every space, and then you end up with the typical urban problems of wheelie bins, planks, cones etc being put out to reserve them. The UK doesn't have enough police to catch and take action against everyone who does this sort of thing (unlike other European countries) so that won't change soon, so it's necessary to make it passively undesirable to do this. (It's not as easy as simple parking enforcement as you have to find out who did it and prove that beyond reasonable doubt).

The only workable way, to me, is that you mark out bays (ideally herringbone with a one way road on one side) and you rent out specific bays to specific individuals at the going rate for renting land in that area. So effectively some houses can have a rented driveway. Some spaces would be kept for car clubs. Others would only be able to enter the area for a short time for pickup/dropoff, enforced by ANPR cameras on entry.

I'm not sure that's a good idea, as it effectively makes people with smaller (and thus generally safer in an urban environment) and more efficient vehicles subsidise people with large inefficient ones.

By all means charge for electricity on the same bill as the parking permit, but it should be metered and charged based on the actual amount of electricity consumed.

But then that makes the billing infrastructure complex and expensive in comparison to just providing open sockets and enforcement being based on the parking. Some Councils already charge differential rates for different sizes/classes of vehicle for residential Permits, it's not outwith the realms of sense to just do that.

 

[py_megapixel]

The only workable way, to me, is that you mark out bays (ideally herringbone with a one way road on one side) and you rent out specific bays to specific individuals at the going rate for renting land in that area. So effectively some houses can have a rented driveway. Some spaces would be kept for car clubs. Others would only be able to enter the area for a short time for pickup/dropoff, enforced by ANPR cameras on entry.

That makes perfect sense to me, as long as the one way street doesn't pose any issues for traffic elsewhere. IMO the bays should be angled with the opening facing against the flow of traffic, and drivers should be required to reverse into the bays and drive out forwards. If you're a pedestrian or cyclist it's terrifying having a driver reversing out as you don't know if they've seen you or not.

Highway Code guidance is that one should reverse into and drive out of parking spaces wherever possible, but that guidance is rarely followed.

But then that makes the billing infrastructure complex and expensive in comparison to just providing open sockets and enforcement being based on the parking. Some Councils already charge differential rates for different sizes/classes of vehicle for residential Permits, it's not outwith the realms of sense to just do that.

You could do that, but now you have the effect of making public transport basically impossible to justify for most car owners, because car journeys will effectively be free. Loading most of the price of motoring onto the marginal cost is the only way it will work, unless public transport operators are going to incredibly radically change their pricing model (and it's not clear how they could).

I suppose if a road pricing scheme is introduced, the electricity cost could be covered by that, but I assume that wouldn't go to the local council. Just charging for the electricity on a metered basis - as has been done in the home for a long time - is the obvious solution.

 

[Falcon1200]

I'd probably favour charging sockets in lamp posts over installing new bollards.

Dogs (except K9) would have to be careful......

 

[GLC]

Dogs (except K9) would have to be careful......

I wouldn’t worry. The Renault Zoe was tested against almost exactly this scenario (swap dog for human…)

 

[JohnMcL7]

I noticed this article about changing electric car batteries I thought would be of interest after some discussions of it here:

Will swapping out electric car batteries catch on?

One Chinese carmaker has plans for thousands of stations in Europe where you can switch batteries.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[plugwash]

My daughter has a car. her husband has another. Their daughter and son have cars (both working, no suitable buses). If they all went EV, what would be the load on their home electric? Would the main circuit breaker go bang?

If you tried to run four 7KW dumb chargers off a normal domestic supply then yes you are likely to take out the main fuse.

Options include.

1. Take turns, unless everyone is doing hundreds of miles everyday you probablly don't need to charge every car every day.
2. Get smart chargers that can work as a group to limit load.
3. Use slower chargers.

A question for those who have EVs - is it possible to charge one EV from another? In the same way that if I get a flat battery, I can get someone to jump start me, could a fellow EV driver transfer enough charge to my car to get me going and allow me to drive to a charging point?

No. there has been some talk of vehicle to grid charging but I've never seen anyone suggest vehicle to vehicle.[

Or is it a case of calling for a tow-truck?

it seems the AA have an experlimental battery-based mobile EV charging soloutoin, but I haven't found any evidence of widespread deployment, with towing listed on their website as the means of resoloution for EV out of battery incidents.

RAC on the other hand seem to have deployed a generator-based mobile EV charging soloution.

 

[trebor79]

I noticed this article about changing electric car batteries I thought would be of interest after some discussions of it here:

Will swapping out electric car batteries catch on?

One Chinese carmaker has plans for thousands of stations in Europe where you can switch batteries.

www.bbc.co.uk

Daft. Very costly. Now instead of 1 battery per car, you need several. Huge drain on resources which have already increased in price by multiples. That cost has to be borne somewhere, and ultimyit falls on the motorist.
Also the battery swap infrastructure is big, costly and lots of mechanical things to go wrong.
And then you still have to charge the flat batteries.
Easier, simpler and cheaper to just throw some rapid chargers in.

No. there has been some talk of vehicle to grid charging but I've never seen anyone suggest vehicle to vehicle.

That's already possible with any vehicle that support V2L.

 

[The Ham]

Ultimately EV's will be realistic for the vast majority of people for the vast majority of travel that they do.

Yes there's going to be edge cases, such as those long trips where it'll take a bit more time. For those houses with lots of cars where they all do high milage. As well as a few others.

However things like not having a drive or flats will be resolved, either through on street charging points or through an improved charging network. It should also be noted those properties are also likely to be those with the highest rates of not having a car.

Much is made of the time taken to charge, well for most day to day travel for the majority of houses with off street parking it's going to add (at most) 1 minute a day to plug in and then unplug. With the car then charging whilst you're at home. For many unable to do that charging at work is likely to become more common.

Filling a car with fuel, even if you don't divert from a journey, can easily add 5 minutes each time they you do it (unless the petrol station is quiet enough that you don't wait to start filling or pay). However, over time the ability not to divert is likely to get harder for more and more people as the numbers of EV's increase and the number of petrol stations reduce.

However people value their time in different ways at different times. No body questions the value of their time when it comes to stopping to get something they feel that they need.

For example, me making my lunch takes me less time than walking to the shop to buy it in my lunch break. It's just that some value their at home time as higher than their during their lunch break, as they may feel that they are not doing anything else during the latter.

It's likely to be the same, adding a bit of time to the parking up/leading routine is likely to be of lower value than when heading off for a day out and having to fill up with fuel.

Ultimately, yes there's going to be a need for more charging points, for changes in how we do some things (which may be better, like being forced to take suitable brakes in long journeys), and so on. However in 20 years time is likely that we'll look back on fears raised at this time and wonder what the fuss was about.

As a comparison, 30 years ago (1992) almost no one had mobile phones, 25 years ago (1997) they were still fairly expensive and fairly basic, 15 years ago (2007) the first iPhone was launched with noisy people having mobile phones 10 years ago and most having smart phones now.

Now yes phones get replaced more quickly than cars, so it's likely that the timeline is likely to be stretched a little, however the numbers who will be holding out based on EV's not being suitable (i.e. any other reason other than not being able to afford one) is likely to shrink the further into the future we go.

There'll be a vocal and possibly even fairly large group who make a lot of noise just before the ban on new ICE cars, but ultimately they'll be many who will be able to say "that reason you've just given, well I do that and it's not an issue." and it'll slowly reduce in size and volume.

In part because those who are stuck in their ways will be replaced by those who are younger and willing to do things differently.

Potentially even by those who don't own a car for day to day use (rather walking, cycling or using public transport) and just hire it as they need it (especially in urban areas). In doing so they may use trains to travel long distances and then hire a car at the other end. However that's another debate.

 

[DelayRepay]

it seems the AA have an experlimental battery-based mobile EV charging soloutoin, but I haven't found any evidence of widespread deployment, with towing listed on their website as the means of resoloution for EV out of battery incidents.

RAC on the other hand seem to have deployed a generator-based mobile EV charging soloution.

I think making these facilities widely available, and publicising their availability, would help. I think the biggest 'fear' associated with EVs is not being able to find a charger and running out of power. In practice most drivers can avoid this scenario, but knowing that there's an 'insurance policy' in terms of getting a charge from the AA/RAC etc would bring piece of mind.

I still like the idea of vehicle to vehicle charging though. When I was young and stupid, I once managed to run out of petrol. It was resolved by ringing my dad who filled up his jerrycan at the petrol station and brought it to me. It would be good to have a similar option in the EV world rather than relying on the AA.

There'll be a vocal and possibly even fairly large group who make a lot of noise just before the ban on new ICE cars, but ultimately they'll be many who will be able to say "that reason you've just given, well I do that and it's not an issue." and it'll slowly reduce in size and volume.

You're right - there are people who don't like the thought of change and will come up with all sorts of reasons (some valid, others not) why things should stay as they are. On this very forum we see similar objections about the move towards E-ticketing, for example.

I don't own an EV, and a few years ago I though they were a bit of a 'fad' that probably not catch on. Now, I am seeing more and more EVs on the road, more and more charging points, and I am convinced that my car-after-next will be an EV. Maybe even my next car, cost is putting me off at the moment but I might keep my existing car for a couple more years.

My main concerns were range (i.e. miles, not variety of models!) and availability of chargers. So I've been monitoring the journeys I make in my petrol car. None of these journeys would have caused me a problem; on every occasion they were either within the range of a standard electric car, or the journey already involved stopping off somewhere that I could charge up. In the future it will be easier, e.g. if I am visiting a friend, they are likely to have their own charger that I can borrow while I'm there. So having given it a lot of thought, the only reason I am not buying an EV today is the cost.

The one journey that might have been problematic was a trip to Norfolk (via A-roads) staying in an Air B&B. Even there, I could have charged up at the local Tesco while stocking up on supplies, but in the future I expect there will be on-street chargers near the Air B&B and chargers at the kind of places holidaymakers go during the day.

I have to say the big revelation for me was the realisation that you don't need to be constantly charging.

 

[AM9]

The one journey that might have been problematic was a trip to Norfolk (via A-roads) staying in an Air B&B. Even there, I could have charged up at the local Tesco while stocking up on supplies, but in the future I expect there will be on-street chargers near the Air B&B and chargers at the kind of places holidaymakers go during the day.

This more than anything is what some fail to accept: If hotels, apartment owners etc., want to have a business, they will have to provide what their potential customers want/need.

 

[PeterC]

I think making these facilities widely available, and publicising their availability, would help. I think the biggest 'fear' associated with EVs is not being able to find a charger and running out of power. In practice most drivers can avoid this scenario, but knowing that there's an 'insurance policy' in terms of getting a charge from the AA/RAC etc would bring piece of mind.

I still like the idea of vehicle to vehicle charging though. When I was young and stupid, I once managed to run out of petrol. It was resolved by ringing my dad who filled up his jerrycan at the petrol station and brought it to me. It would be good to have a similar option in the EV world rather than relying on the AA.



You're right - there are people who don't like the thought of change and will come up with all sorts of reasons (some valid, others not) why things should stay as they are. On this very forum we see similar objections about the move towards E-ticketing, for example.

I don't own an EV, and a few years ago I though they were a bit of a 'fad' that probably not catch on. Now, I am seeing more and more EVs on the road, more and more charging points, and I am convinced that my car-after-next will be an EV. Maybe even my next car, cost is putting me off at the moment but I might keep my existing car for a couple more years.

The one journey that might have been problematic was a trip to Norfolk (via A-roads) staying in an Air B&B. Even there, I could have charged up at the local Tesco while stocking up on supplies, but in the future I expect there will be on-street chargers near the Air B&B and chargers at the kind of places holidaymakers go during the day.

Day trip destinations are a big hole in the network at the moment. Some resorts and attractions will lose out if punters find that a trip that could be done without an extended rest stop now requires being stuck in a roadside Starbucks or KFC for half an hour.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Day trip destinations are a big hole in the network at the moment. Some resorts and attractions will lose out if punters find that a trip that could be done without an extended rest stop now requires being stuck in a roadside Starbucks or KFC for half an hour.

With a 200 mile range (I know some are shorter, but that seems to be the sweet spot likely to be the norm in future) if you aren't taking a proper break during your journey of that length then you should be. Forcing this is good for road safety.

London to Manchester is bob-on 200 miles by road and about 4 and a bit hours. Nobody should be driving that without one decent break or two shorter ones.

If it's under 200 miles you'll likely be able to charge at your destination. Like the way providing mains sockets or USBs for charging phones on public transport is the norm now, providing car charging sockets (even trickle-charge ones) at venues and car parks will become the norm.

 

[Ken H]

This more than anything is what some fail to accept: If hotels, apartment owners etc., want to have a business, they will have to provide what their potential customers want/need.

may hotels dont have parking. How will they cope?

 

[JohnMcL7]

Personally the charging/range doesn't bother me that much and something I'd put up with if the car was bringing other benefits but for my use there's few benefits and many other larger downsides. The much bigger issues for me are the high price and lack of choice so it doesn't make much sense at the moment to pay a lot more money for a type of car I don't want and also have the additional issues of dealing with charging in range.

However the car after next I'm sure the choice will be better and prices will be lower so an electric car at that point may be a viable choice and I'm sure that's the case for plenty others as well so there will be more of a transition to electric vehicles.

 

[AM9]

Day trip destinations are a big hole in the network at the moment. Some resorts and attractions will lose out if punters find that a trip that could be done without an extended rest stop now requires being stuck in a roadside Starbucks or KFC for half an hour.

I don't think that the commercial viability of a few day trip destinations is an excuse to slow down the essential programme to decoarbonise private transport.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Personally the charging/range doesn't bother me that much and something I'd put up with if the car was bringing other benefits but for my use there's few benefits and many other larger downsides. The much bigger issues for me are the high price and lack of choice so it doesn't make much sense at the moment to pay a lot more money for a type of car I don't want and also have the additional issues of dealing with charging in range.

Yep, that's my situation - not enough choice of vehicles I want, and too high a price to buy new. I did think my next car would be an EV, but I now reckon one more petrol for maybe 5 years and the market will probably be ready for me.

I don't think that the commercial viability of a few day trip destinations is an excuse to slow down the essential programme to decoarbonise private transport.

Only non-viable for people who think driving 3-4 hours without a break is acceptable practice. And to be fair even if an adult thinks that, their kids in the back wanting to go to the loo will mean they end up stopping anyway.

 

[DelayRepay]

I don't think that the commercial viability of a few day trip destinations is an excuse to slow down the essential programme to decoarbonise private transport.

I completely agree, but in any case the destinations will recognise the issue and adapt. It won't necessarily cost them anything - visitors who use the chargers will pay to use them. Some attractions will even benefit, e.g. people stopping off to use the charger and spending money in their cafe or whatever while they're there.

Yep, that's my situation - not enough choice of vehicles I want, and too high a price to buy new. I did think my next car would be an EV, but I now reckon one more petrol for maybe 5 years and the market will probably be ready for me.

And me. I'd be willing to pay a bit more for an EV than the equivalent petrol model, given the savings during the life of the vehicle. But at the moment the differential is a bit too high.

Having said that, it's not a great time to buy a new (or second hand) car at the moment, of any type.

 

[AM9]

Yep, that's my situation - not enough choice of vehicles I want, and too high a price to buy new. I did think my next car would be an EV, but I now reckon one more petrol for maybe 5 years and the market will probably be ready for me.



Only non-viable for people who think driving 3-4 hours without a break is acceptable practice. And to be fair even if an adult thinks that, their kids in the back wanting to go to the loo will mean they end up stopping anyway.

That activity will be reined in as every EV driver will be creating an audit trail of their charging locations, energy purchased and times. In the event of a moving traffic offence or their involvement in a traffic incident, verifiable evidence of their driving hours will likely be accessed by the authorities.

 

[GLC]

I completely agree, but in any case the destinations will recognise the issue and adapt. It won't necessarily cost them anything - visitors who use the chargers will pay to use them. Some attractions will even benefit, e.g. people stopping off to use the charger and spending money in their cafe or whatever while they're there.

As someone with an EV who can’t charge at home, this is exactly how me and my partner now approach our day trips/holidays. When we search for accommodation, EV charging (whether paid or free), is a perk we prioritise, and likewise for attractions. It’s not a requirement, but it’s a strong perk for us. There are supermarkets that we now go to, that while a mile or two further away, the EV charging they offer means we choose to shop there over a closer supermarket

 

[JohnMcL7]

I seriously doubt people complaining about range is because they want to drive 400 miles+ in one go but the more range you have, the more flexible. My current car does around 400 miles on a tank vs 600-700 miles of the previous one and while I certainly don't drive anywhere near the range of one tank I do still find the shorter 400 mile range irritating at times especially when there's a long diversion or unexpected trip, I have to make sure I'm topped up with petrol in case I can't later. There's a number of trips I've done recently where I could drive and back without needing more petrol but an electric car would need topped up so I'd have to stop somewhere else just to charge (I wouldn't be charging at friend's houses, the puppy breeder etc.) rather than just being able to drive out and back.