Do you think there will ever be another single carriage train

[ukrob]

Once the 153s are life expired?

If they were built today, they would need separate cab doors, and a large DDA compliant toilet (assuming any toilet was installed) - eating into available saloon space.

What could replace them? Some form of articulated two carriage unit similar in length to a two car pacer maybe?

 

[driver9000]

Maybe a UK loading gauge version of the railcars Ianroad Eireann use on their lightly used lines?

http://philtpics.fotopic.net/p32304964.html

(not my photo)

 

[me123]

The PPM's on its way and doesn't have all the features you mention. Of course, it's barely a train as we normally know it.

I don't think there'll be another class 153 style train, though. Future "short" trains will more likely be like 150s and 156s. Just look at the 172 coming out soon.

 

[Stonesourscotty]

There are the Parry People Movers. Yes There Will Be And Maybe Some Single Unit Tram Trains?

 

[EE Type 3]

The PPM's on its way and doesn't have all the features you mention. Of course, it's barely a train as we normally know it.

I don't think there'll be another class 153 style train, though. Future "short" trains will more likely be like 150s and 156s. Just look at the 172 coming out soon.

A single car 172 could be possible, the extra length of the car could compensate for the toilet taking up alot of room. Or we could do it like the old days, 31s top and tailing 2 mark 2s anyone?

 

[ukrob]

A single car 172 could be possible, the extra length of the car could compensate for the toilet taking up alot of room. Or we could do it like the old days, 31s top and tailing 2 mark 2s anyone?

The extra length being a whole extra 40cm

 

[EE Type 3]

The extra length being a whole extra 40cm

Thats enough room for a toilet! How big do you want it?

 

[43034 The Black Horse]

How big do you want it?

Oooo er, Young Man!!

 

[EE Type 3]

Oooo er, Young Man!!

!

 

[Proud Salopian]

Will any train ever equal the beautiful beast that is 153362?

Definitely one for preservation come the day! :P

 

[The_Rail_WAy]

Interesting point raised there rob, I certainly can see a lot of 153's going to preserved lines when the time comes, all though should'nt be for a while as the 153's, in my opnion, have plenty of life left in them yet.

I do however, think we could possibly see a larger version of the PPM built in the future- maybe in the style of a 'coach-train.'

 

[TEW]

I don't think there will ever need to be a single carriage train as by the time 153s are due for replacment growth should be sufficient to maintain a two carriage service instead.

 

[D9521]

Interesting point raised there rob, I certainly can see a lot of 153's going to preserved lines when the time comes, all though should'nt be for a while as the 153's, in my opnion, have plenty of life left in them yet.

I do however, think we could possibly see a larger version of the PPM built in the future- maybe in the style of a 'coach-train.'

Plenty of life in the engines maybe but electrical faults etc i can see them being scrapped well before most people's rough guess on their life expectancy

 

[Z12XE]

Plenty of life in the engines maybe but electrical faults etc

More likely the body work/shell etc will see them scrapped, Some of them are in a dreadful state already

 

[960012]

Nothing beats the good old 121!

http://stephen9466.fotopic.net/p37245799.html

I think another 1 coach train would be good!

 

[Mintona]

The beauty of the 1 carriage train is versatility. They can be used on a quiet branch line, or couple a few up and you can use them on a better-used line. Much better than fixed length and formation units.

 

[laseandre]

I think that the PPMs are a good move, but that they should be a bit longer and have corridor connections, like a 153, but with the new traction system and new bodyshells.

 

[90019]

The PPM's on its way and doesn't have all the features you mention. Of course, it's barely a train as we normally know it.

It's more of a splat than a train

 

[Kneedown]

and have corridor connections, like a 153

I'm probably going to slated here but, from a Drivers point of view, i think the rail industry ought to do away with corridor connections. The things are draughty and let floods of water in, not to mention the impaired visibility and claustrophobic feeling the Driver has. Why not just build trains of sufficient length in the first place? Or failing that, if units must be cobbled together then ensure there is a competent member of staff in each.
I think the 153's should all go, and the sooner the better. They couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding, the number two end is so small and draughty the RSPCA would have you if you kept a Jack Russell in it! We're constantly told to look and be professional at work, but how can anyone FEEL professional on one of those things?
JMHO.

 

[P156KWJ]

I'm probably going to slated here but, from a Drivers point of view, i think the rail industry ought to do away with corridor connections. The things are draughty and let floods of water in, not to mention the impaired visibility and claustrophobic feeling the Driver has. Why not just build trains of sufficient length in the first place? Or failing that, if units must be cobbled together then ensure there is a competent member of staff in each.
I think the 153's should all go, and the sooner the better. They couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding, the number two end is so small and draughty the RSPCA would have you if you kept a Jack Russell in it! We're constantly told to look and be professional at work, but how can anyone FEEL professional on one of those things?
JMHO.

saw a 153 at Nottingham where a driver obviously wasn't too happy with his 153 and had changed 'Emergency' on the brake handle to 'oh ****!'

 

[ukrob]

I'm probably going to slated here but, from a Drivers point of view, i think the rail industry ought to do away with corridor connections. The things are draughty and let floods of water in, not to mention the impaired visibility and claustrophobic feeling the Driver has. Why not just build trains of sufficient length in the first place? Or failing that, if units must be cobbled together then ensure there is a competent member of staff in each.
I think the 153's should all go, and the sooner the better. They couldn't pull the skin off a rice pudding, the number two end is so small and draughty the RSPCA would have you if you kept a Jack Russell in it! We're constantly told to look and be professional at work, but how can anyone FEEL professional on one of those things?
JMHO.

If things are built properly, they will not let draughts and water in. Is anyone able to comment on newer units with corridor connections such as the Class 350s?

"Building trains of sufficient length in the first place" - reducing flexibility? The 153s ARE sufficient length for many of the services they operate.

Remember that drivers are PAID to be in a cramped cab - passengers PAY to be in a cramped train!

 

[Juniper Driver]

saw a 153 at Nottingham where a driver obviously wasn't too happy with his 153 and had changed 'Emergency' on the brake handle to 'oh ****!'

How many times have I seen that?

 

[Metroland]

I note pacers are one of the cheapest trains

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browse...ndix 2 variable usage charges (passenger).pdf

 

[Kneedown]

If things are built properly, they will not let draughts and water in. Is anyone able to comment on newer units with corridor connections such as the Class 350s?

"Building trains of sufficient length in the first place" - reducing flexibility? The 153s ARE sufficient length for many of the services they operate.

Remember that drivers are PAID to be in a cramped cab - passengers PAY to be in a cramped train!

How can you complain about paying to be in a cramped train when you believe that building trains of sufficient length is "Reducing flexibility"?

I'm not paid to be in a cramped cab. I'm paid to drive people from A to B safely with due regard to all prevailing factors and conditions, and to maintain maximum concentration whilst doing so. Constant fidgetting to try and get comfortable whilst a cold draught is blowing over you with it's howling noise, while a lake is forming on the floor around your feet and bag, soaking its contents, is not conducive to maintaining concentration. And no, i am NOT exaggerating.

With respect.

 

[90019]

With respect.

With respect Prime Minister...
/Sir Humphrey

 

[ukrob]

How can you complain about paying to be in a cramped train when you believe that building trains of sufficient length is "Reducing flexibility"?

I'm not paid to be in a cramped cab. I'm paid to drive people from A to B safely with due regard to all prevailing factors and conditions, and to maintain maximum concentration whilst doing so. Constant fidgetting to try and get comfortable whilst a cold draught is blowing over you with it's howling noise, while a lake is forming on the floor around your feet and bag, soaking its contents, is not conducive to maintaining concentration. And no, i am NOT exaggerating.

With respect.

And just like I previously said:

If things are built properly, they will not let draughts and water in. Is anyone able to comment on newer units with corridor connections such as the Class 350s?

 

[xc170]

I havnt read all the posts in this thread so sorry if ime just repeating something, I personally cant see the point of building a new single car unit, most 153s run around in pairs now, so really theres no need for single car units.

Adam

 

[Kneedown]

And just like I previously said:

The fact is though, that they do let draughts and water in, and always have. The seals are made of rubber which perishes over time when used lightly, but when subjected to the battering it gets when the gangway door is constantly opened and closed it lasts only marginally longer than tissue paper would.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

How many times have I seen that?

I remember one which had a few extra brake positions added with felt tip pen after the Emergency notch which read in sequence:- "Emergency, Oh S**t!, Help!, Yes your Honour, Promoted to Driver Manager"

Some folks have too much time on their hands!

 

[Failed Unit]

I don't think a new single car unit will ever be built. If you look at the downsides of the 153 and new regulations I don't think it would be viable.

1. Drivers cab too small - I don't think they would be allowed to make a cab that small I suspect, look at the size of the cabs on all modern units that is some space taken up for a start.

2. 23m I think is the maximum length trains can be on most of the routes the operate on.

3. Disable toilet and wheelchair width doors will be needed at least at one end, again more space taken, at the moment a wheelchair can't use the toilet on the 153!

4. I am sure that all new trains need bike spaces, more space for seats taken, this will really need to be a dual purpose baggage area. When travelling from Newark North Gate there are many times that a bike has been left behind due to the amount of bags on the train.

I think when all these considerations are taken into account the train will probably only have about 50 - 60 seats in it. Looking at most routes I use them on in Lincolnshire this isn't enough (except for the Lincoln - Doncaster line maybe). If rail use expands we need 2 cars on all routes, it would take very few improvements in Lincolnshire to see the 153's been too small cope, such as robust connections to ECML services.