Dodgers

[mikeg]

I witnessed a chav get on at Northallerton heading for Thirsk (often the guards don't have time to check tickets between these two stations so a lot of people chance it). Guard approaches him and asks for ticket. Does the pocket dance and then claims "I've just got out of prison, could you let me off for this one?"

Problem is, YOI Northallerton prison had already been closed for over two months at that point! I don't know what the procedure followed was exactly, but the guard issued a zero fare ticket, took loads of details and made him sign his notes (TIR, possibly?), asked for ID all within the space of six minutes. Then commented "You were the same one a few months ago weren't you? You don't learn!" Guard then turned to the rest of the carriage and announced "He didn't even ask before getting on! I mean I'd have probably said 'no' but it was a bit cheeky!" or words to similar effect.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

If he had to sign the notes, then it may have been one of the revenue officers who work the route, most likely Mark.

 

[LowLevel]

I had recurring problems a little while ago with an irritating little gimp from a sleepy Lincolnshire station. I've not seen him for months so I assume he's finally given up or is in prison again.

I had him on one Sunday afternoon working a train back from a certain classy Lincolnshire beach resort town. We went through the usual rigmarole of polite greetings to try and distract you, followed by the dodgy blocked bank card etc. I wrote out yet another UPFN for him to wallpaper his house with at which point a group of 8 or so folk who had been to the seaside for the day all descended upon him and started giving him the biggest load of abuse for basically being scum who makes their community look bad constantly, hanging around not working while taking drugs, never paying on the train etc etc. I've never seen him look so sheepish. I just said 'hmm, looks like they don't like you either mate!'.

He then started some crap about taking his custom to the buses which I cut off with 'it's only custom if you ever actually pay for it, and we own those as well'.

That was the last time we met and I sort of almost miss him now!

 

[mikeg]

Forgot to mention, when my friend was travelling from Northallerton to Darlington to college on East Coast I believe, two of her fellow students who she didn't know very well were travelling on a child ticket. A member of the team asked to see their ticket and then asked for ID to prove they were in fact children... at which point they presented their Darlington college ID! Darlington College being a post-16 institution... They also had their details taken, don't know what came of it.

 

[DarloRich]

The best I ever saw (and I am only a passenger) was the little old lady trick. Aforesaid little old lady wanders onto East Coast service at Kings Cross and takes a seat in carriage B on an HST. First stop York. Guard comes round somewhere near Stevenage to be confronted by old lady very upset brandishing a ticket to somewhere like Finsbury Park.

Gaurd comforts here and says it is OK love i will let you stay on to York and we will get you on a train home later. No charge. She is most greatful.

Around Doncaster she gets up and moves to another carriage and on arriving at York ( where I got off) gets off wearing a different coat and an old lady hat.......... to be met on the concourse by another group of little old ladies!

I bet she pulled the same trick on the way home too!

There are "full kit" spotters out there? Now I've heard it all.

that will be wasted on the majority here. Pressing the insert thumbs up button now!

I'm the opposite :-P I often buy tickets to do some spotting on the platforms without intending to travel.
Usually I get questioned when using platform tickets so its easier buying a one stop ticket

Why bother wasting money? Just ask the gate staff.

Only yesterday, scrote locked in the toilet before northallerton, had a ticket durham-darlington. Forgot to get off was his excuse, so he was advised to get off at Northallerton. Train stopped, didnt get off. Saw him again, asked him where he was going, said darlington. Couldnt answer why he didnt get off and wasnt being very co-operative.

So gets to York, still didnt get off. What a pity there was a BTP officer on the platform, "wanna check this fella out?" And handed him over.

Turned out he wanted to go to Wakefield. Perhaps if he had been honest I could have given him a zero fare. Instead he's been filed for prosecution.....

My favourite, a late night newcastle service leaving Man Picc, front coach, afroman sat playing with his mobile. Asked to see his ticket. Looked at me, laughed and continued to play with his phone.

Asked him again for his ticket, looks at me, says he lost it, carries on playing with his phone.

So quote him the fare. £3.60. Looks at me again, laughs again and continues playing with his phone.

BTP officer in plain clothes sitting a few seats away gets up, approaches the guy, pulls out his badge, tells the guy "you need to pay him" guy looks at him, looks at his badge, looks at me, laughs.... And continues playing with his phone!

Train announces "we will shortly arrive at Stalybridge" guy gets up still playing with his phone and heads for the door. BTP approaches guy who is about 2 foot taller than the officer is and says "seen enough mate, you are under arrest" I pop doors open and he frog marches the guy onto the platform and detains him inside the station managers office. I despatch the train for home.

Next night station super collars me at Stalybridge, Im working the same train. She tells me the guy was uncooperative for over an hour but there was no way BTP guy was gonna let it lie. Eventually he found his true identity, and......

He was wanted on warrant by Metropolitan Police for assault and credit card fraud charges amongst other things! If only he had paid his £3.60 fare....

Winner. Criminals often catch themselves don't they!

 

[swt_passenger]

Where's the furthest away from London anyone has seen a blatant attempt to touch out with an Oyster Card, with a pretend apology along the lines of "I thought it should work here?".

I can start with Southampton Central, but there must be a record distance out there somewhere...

 

[infobleep]

I was once on an old Thameslink train when it was first Thameslink. Before the guard came through a passenger had under the seats and got away with it too.

I decided not to get involved myself and say something.

 

[185]

Train leaves a big city. Twenty minutes running, then next stops - two smallish towns close together (A) and (B), all with ticket offices & TVMs. After them, another twenty minutes to another big city. In the three minutes between those two small towns, hoards of non-payers usually hid in the toilets with no intention of paying.

Before arrival at (A), a certain conductor used to lock the toilets out for a few moments, at most a couple of minutes, stopping the hiding. This prompted the large swathe of dodgers to run the length of the train and all hid in the front vestibule most days.

Unfortunately, one day, the train was massive - 8 coaches. So big it wouldn't fit on any of the small stations, so when tickets were checked, the only two (paying) passengers who were getting off at (B) were advised to go to the guard in the third coach, and get off on his local door. The only passenger boarding at (B) was waved on through the local door. A rather deliberately quiet announcement was made advising of the sole door which would open.

Upon a very swift departure from (B), eleven ticketless regulars appeared with complaints about the doors not opening.

"Just send your tickets in, you'll get a refund. Next stop is in twenty minutes, you may make the last train back. Show your ticket, and you'll be fine."

Prior to this era of prosecutions being handed out like candy floss at a circus, minor punishments like these were a little more effective.

 

[DaiGog]

As a former RPI there are many, but here are a couple to be going on with:

1. Huddersfield station, pre-electronic gates, barrier set up. Girl gets off a TPE and approaches me (I'm on Avantix duty that morning).

Girl: Single from Dewsbury please.
Me: £1.70 please (issues ticket, takes money). Why didn't you use the ticket office before you boarded the train?
Girl: There isn't a ticket office at Burley Park.......

2. Huddersfield again - I have changed the names mentioned below.

This time I happened to be passing through when Control rang me on the off-chance there was one of us about. Guard on a Scarborough service was having problems with a passenger on a child ticket who was plainly older than 15. As the train rolled in, I made my way over, taking a BTP officer with me who also happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time.

I boarded the train and approached the passenger. He duly presented me with a child ticket from Bangor to Scarborough, so I made it quite clear that neither the guard nor I were having any of it, and frogmarched him onto the platform. The BTP officer set about getting some details from him, and was given the runaround with a couple of different false names and addresses.

Eventually the passenger said he sometimes lives with his grandmother in Caernarfon, and gave us her name and address, which checked out. He finally settled on what he swore was his own real name - Gareth John Davies - and maintained that he was fifteen.

He then asked to phone his grandmother before the police officer does, as she is old and would get a shock if the police rang her, which the officer agreed to.

Passenger makes call on his mobile, and speaks in Welsh. A couple of sentences in, I start laughing quite a lot. BTP officer looks puzzled.

BTP: What you laughing at?
Me: His name's Geraint and he's not 15.
BTP: Eh?
Me: I'll let you into a secret. I come from where he comes from and I can understand every word of this. He's called Geraint and he's just said he told the police his name was Gareth, and he can't tell them he's 25 or he'll be arrested.

BTP officer is now laughing even more than I was, but regains his composure and tells the passenger to give him the phone. As the conversation with the little old lady in Caernarfon progresses, it dawns on the passenger that the game is up, and he looks at me with the same puzzled expression as worn by the BTP officer a couple of minutes earlier. I just smiled at him and said "Right then Geraint. Let's start again, shall we?" Further puzzled expression followed by me saying "Dwi wedi deall bob gair" ("I understood every word").

--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Only yesterday, scrote locked in the toilet before northallerton, had a ticket durham-darlington. Forgot to get off was his excuse, so he was advised to get off at Northallerton. Train stopped, didnt get off. Saw him again, asked him where he was going, said darlington. Couldnt answer why he didnt get off and wasnt being very co-operative.

So gets to York, still didnt get off. What a pity there was a BTP officer on the platform, "wanna check this fella out?" And handed him over.

Turned out he wanted to go to Wakefield. Perhaps if he had been honest I could have given him a zero fare. Instead he's been filed for prosecution.....

My favourite, a late night newcastle service leaving Man Picc, front coach, afroman sat playing with his mobile. Asked to see his ticket. Looked at me, laughed and continued to play with his phone.

Asked him again for his ticket, looks at me, says he lost it, carries on playing with his phone.

So quote him the fare. £3.60. Looks at me again, laughs again and continues playing with his phone.

BTP officer in plain clothes sitting a few seats away gets up, approaches the guy, pulls out his badge, tells the guy "you need to pay him" guy looks at him, looks at his badge, looks at me, laughs.... And continues playing with his phone!

Train announces "we will shortly arrive at Stalybridge" guy gets up still playing with his phone and heads for the door. BTP approaches guy who is about 2 foot taller than the officer is and says "seen enough mate, you are under arrest" I pop doors open and he frog marches the guy onto the platform and detains him inside the station managers office. I despatch the train for home.

Next night station super collars me at Stalybridge, Im working the same train. She tells me the guy was uncooperative for over an hour but there was no way BTP guy was gonna let it lie. Eventually he found his true identity, and......

He was wanted on warrant by Metropolitan Police for assault and credit card fraud charges amongst other things! If only he had paid his £3.60 fare....

Along similar lines, we used to do occasional exercises at places like Dewsbury with BTP and their sniffer dogs - they were looking for other things, but we were a good means of funneling people and slowing them down when they got off the train so the dogs could do their stuff. The number of people who we would deal with for avoiding a £2 fare who would then be found to have drugs or a knife in their pockets was unbelievable - you would think if they were up to no good, why would they then draw attention to themselves for the sake of buying a £2 train ticket?

 

[jon0844]

When my GN train approached Hornsey on the way to Moorgate, a ticket inspector asked one guy why he didn't validate his Oyster card.

"I forgot" was his excuse.

I've seen a fair few people who have travelcards (for what I assume is zone 1&2) caught for not touching in along Great Northern stations further north (like New Barnet). The same excuse all the time, that they thought they had touched in.

Some RPIs issue PFs, some buy the excuse even with the person struggling not to smirk, and I'd hope a few actually go down the prosecution route and check previous usage (but I've not seen that yet).

Often the passenger doesn't even have sufficient funds to travel beyond their season ticket entitlement. It's odd that they still get penalty fares, but I guess they're quick and easy to do. Seems to me that it only serves to justify taking the risk to save money though.

Also, earlier this week, two lads got off a train terminating at WGC and tried to use the lift. They waited and the man at gate went over to ask for their tickets.

One had a ticket and was allowed in the lift, the other was asked again for his ticket. He had now lost the ability to speak and just walked down the platform and into the toilets (out of use due to vandalism, but the door wasn't locked).

I didn't stay to see what happened. Maybe he decided to hold out until staff went on a break and opened the gates, or until another train came in to take him somewhere else. Seemed like a sufficient punishment for seriously messing up his day!

 

[Antman]

The best I ever saw (and I am only a passenger) was the little old lady trick. Aforesaid little old lady wanders onto East Coast service at Kings Cross and takes a seat in carriage B on an HST. First stop York. Guard comes round somewhere near Stevenage to be confronted by old lady very upset brandishing a ticket to somewhere like Finsbury Park.

Gaurd comforts here and says it is OK love i will let you stay on to York and we will get you on a train home later. No charge. She is most greatful.

Around Doncaster she gets up and moves to another carriage and on arriving at York ( where I got off) gets off wearing a different coat and an old lady hat.......... to be met on the concourse by another group of little old ladies!

I bet she pulled the same trick on the way home too!



that will be wasted on the majority here. Pressing the insert thumbs up button now!



Why bother wasting money? Just ask the gate staff.



Winner. Criminals often catch themselves don't they!

Must be something about York, my wife witnessed something very similar!

Edinburgh train out of Kings Cross one morning first stop York. Guard comes along checking tickets and an elderly gentleman produces a ticket to Stevenage. The guard tells him he's on the wrong train and York is the next stop, the man acts very confused and reels off a long winded story about how he was going to visit his daughter in Stevenage and it's the first time he's been on a train in years and he was told at KX to get this train although he might have misheard the platform number etc etc. Guard accepts the story, signs his ticket and tells him he'll take him to the platform staff at York who will put him on the correct train. Before arrival in York he disappears down the train never to be seen again, obviously the last thing he wanted was to be shoved onto a train back to Stevenage. The wife had no doubt that the whole thing was a scam and he probably spent the day at York races before using his signed Stevenage ticket to get back to London!

 

[jon0844]

Along similar lines, we used to do occasional exercises at places like Dewsbury with BTP and their sniffer dogs - they were looking for other things, but we were a good means of funneling people and slowing them down when they got off the train so the dogs could do their stuff. The number of people who we would deal with for avoiding a £2 fare who would then be found to have drugs or a knife in their pockets was unbelievable - you would think if they were up to no good, why would they then draw attention to themselves for the sake of buying a £2 train ticket?

I cannot for the life of me work out why these stings aren't done more often. Every time they happen, the outcome is the same - criminals literally walk into a net.

Yet such blocks seek to happen incredibly rarely, and I'm sure the argument is that they're expensive? Yet you have criminals come to you - and send out a message that you better watch out etc. How can that not be worth doing regularly, albeit at random times and locations?

 

[DarloRich]

Must be something about York, my wife witnessed something very similar!

Edinburgh train out of Kings Cross one morning first stop York. Guard comes along checking tickets and an elderly gentleman produces a ticket to Stevenage. The guard tells him he's on the wrong train and York is the next stop, the man acts very confused and reels off a long winded story about how he was going to visit his daughter in Stevenage and it's the first time he's been on a train in years and he was told at KX to get this train although he might have misheard the platform number etc etc. Guard accepts the story, signs his ticket and tells him he'll take him to the platform staff at York who will put him on the correct train. Before arrival in York he disappears down the train never to be seen again, obviously the last thing he wanted was to be shoved onto a train back to Stevenage. The wife had no doubt that the whole thing was a scam and he probably spent the day at York races before using his signed Stevenage ticket to get back to London!

Had i not seen it i would have said it was an apocryphal story! She was very convincing and I have convinced my self the old lady made an exaggerated wink to someone as the guard left! I am not sure I would have the front. I might try to bluff it out if caught on a slightly dodgy ticket ( and we have all done that on rovers or such like! What? Doncaster isn't covered by this ticket? Are you sure?) but i doubt i could carry out such a massive scam.

 

[DaiGog]

I cannot for the life of me work out why these stings aren't done more often. Every time they happen, the outcome is the same - criminals literally walk into a net.

Yet such blocks seek to happen incredibly rarely, and I'm sure the argument is that they're expensive? Yet you have criminals come to you - and send out a message that you better watch out etc. How can that not be worth doing regularly, albeit at random times and locations?

You would have to ask the police! It probably comes down to available manpower only being there at certain times.

It could of course be that these stings are not entirely random - if they have knowledge that a certain wanted individual is likely to be passing through, then it's a good excuse to be there and stop them.

 

[Antman]

I cannot for the life of me work out why these stings aren't done more often. Every time they happen, the outcome is the same - criminals literally walk into a net.

Yet such blocks seek to happen incredibly rarely, and I'm sure the argument is that they're expensive? Yet you have criminals come to you - and send out a message that you better watch out etc. How can that not be worth doing regularly, albeit at random times and locations?

I think you've answered your own question, they are very expensive and not always very productive.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

The number of people who we would deal with for avoiding a £2 fare who would then be found to have drugs or a knife in their pockets was unbelievable - you would think if they were up to no good, why would they then draw attention to themselves for the sake of buying a £2 train ticket?

I myself had reports of youths joining at Dewsbury with knives as reported by people on the platform and on to the train. I didnt dare ticket them! A quick call to huddersfield station and as I drew in, it seemed half of the northern BTP force crawled out od the stonework and apprehended the gang. There was a rugby match on that particular Saturday hence their unusual appearance en masse!

 

[Eeveevolve]

I myself had reports of youths joining at Dewsbury with knives as reported by people on the platform and on to the train. I didnt dare ticket them! A quick call to huddersfield station and as I drew in, it seemed half of the northern BTP force crawled out od the stonework and apprehended the gang. There was a rugby match on that particular Saturday hence their unusual appearance en masse!

You sure it was Rugby, as at our rugby matches there is one or two officers sat in a corner eating hotdogs.

 

[infobleep]

Train leaves a big city. Twenty minutes running, then next stops - two smallish towns close together (A) and (B), all with ticket offices & TVMs. After them, another twenty minutes to another big city. In the three minutes between those two small towns, hoards of non-payers usually hid in the toilets with no intention of paying.

Before arrival at (A), a certain conductor used to lock the toilets out for a few moments, at most a couple of minutes, stopping the hiding. This prompted the large swathe of dodgers to run the length of the train and all hid in the front vestibule most days.

Unfortunately, one day, the train was massive - 8 coaches. So big it wouldn't fit on any of the small stations, so when tickets were checked, the only two (paying) passengers who were getting off at (B) were advised to go to the guard in the third coach, and get off on his local door. The only passenger boarding at (B) was waved on through the local door. A rather deliberately quiet announcement was made advising of the sole door which would open.

Upon a very swift departure from (B), eleven ticketless regulars appeared with complaints about the doors not opening.

"Just send your tickets in, you'll get a refund. Next stop is in twenty minutes, you may make the last train back. Show your ticket, and you'll be fine."

Prior to this era of prosecutions being handed out like candy floss at a circus, minor punishments like these were a little more effective.

That may be more effective but does it bring in as much revenue?

 

[313103]

Had this the other day, Train arrives into platform passenger gets off, Guard says to me 'That person there with the red hat wants to go Swansea (this is Port Talbot), the Guard then says he boarded at Neath and was told by a member of staff this the train. The person stands around waiting as if he is waiting for the next down service.

I noticed that as i gave the second dispatch signal to Guard he started to walk up to the exit, When the train left the platform i went to the stair well and said to the bloke 'Its a long walk to Swansea, going that way, especially as one to Swansea was going to be in 5 minutes time. He then said i dont want to go Swansea, I said why did you tell the Guard you did and then try and get another member of staff in trouble, with that the usual expletives emanated from his mouth. I then watched as he walk to his home.

Suffice to say i saw the Guard the next day and told him, he said to me he got away with it this time, he wont next because he had a easily recognizable face.

 

[infobleep]

I saw someone leap over the side barrier at Guildford station once. Surprised the staff Manning the ages didn't notice. Either that or they did and did nothing for whatever reason.

 

[Deepgreen]

In the crime ghetto that is rural east Surrey (!), a youth was caught on my train a few weeks back by a very rare appearance of a ticket inspector. He had no ticket and refused to buy one. He possibly assumed his camouflage jacket and scarf over his face would protect him (even when the scarf slipped down). He was taken off the train at Reigate by the inspector, who had called ahead for police attendance. None was provided and he just ambled away along the platform and onto the level crossing, presumably to make his escape there. I have seen the same youth in exactly the same clothing several times since on the same train, presumably without a ticket - so being caught doesn't mean much sometimes. He goes to Redhill where the platform 3 exit is unmanned for 99% of the time, so a ticket would seem an unnecessary luxury here. Or there is the almost equally easy 'doubling through' in the ticket hall, as challenges rarely ensue here either.

 

[Doctor Fegg]

A while ago, we caught the last HST back from Worcester (to Charlbury) on the Cotswold Line, and were sat in the quiet carriage as per usual. No mobiles, no audio, no shouting, just a quiet ride home on an empty HST... bliss.

Unfortunately, just before departure from Foregate Street, a bunch of scrots barrel onto the train, deposit themselves in Coach A and start yelling. They are almost certainly only going to Evesham so I figured there was no point risking confrontation by asking them to be quiet... though the amount of screaming was getting a bit wearing even by the time we'd reached Shrub Hill.

Conductor comes through the train to do the ticket check. We showed ours. He moved onto the chavs. "Can I see your tickets please, ladies and gentlemen?"

"Nah, **** off."

Would he stand his ground? Call BTP? Dump them off at the first station? To our surprise, no: he just walked on into the next carriage, while the scrots carried on yelling.

20 minutes later and the train draws up to Evesham. Stops on the Cotswold Line are always announced on HSTs, because of the short platforms. But not this time - not a single announcement. And once the other departing passengers had made their way off, the doors were locked double-sharp - I think I even saw the conductor running up the platform to make sure the doors were closed promptly - and the train set off again.

At which point the chavs suddenly realised where they were, ran out to the vestibules and started beating on the doors.

"Sorry guys, the train's going. You'll have to get off at Honeybourne, the next stop... No, this is the last train of the night, there aren't any more back to Evesham."

That'll be a £40 taxi ride back home then. Guess it would have been cheaper for you to buy a ticket in the first place...

 

[Springs Branch]

My favourite incident was on a bus, rather than train and is from the good old days in the late 1970s.

I was travelling home on the top deck of a Lancashire United bus late one night (that's the original LUT in South Lancashire, of course). Part way through the journey two lippy young scrotes got on and also sat upstairs. The bus was crew operated, so presently a conductress came to collect their fares. She was a very slightly-built woman who looked as if she hadn't been in the job too long (brand new leather cash bag and uniform).

The toe-rags thought this was their opportunity for a free ride home that night. They weren't particularly abusive, but made it clear they had no intention of paying fares. After a minute or so of trying to no effect, the conductress gave up and went back downstairs.

Seconds later the bus screeched to a halt, immediately followed by the sound of heavy boots on the stairs. Although crew operated, the bus was a front-entrance Daimler Fleetline, and maybe the lads should have paid a bit of attention to who was driving when they boarded, before being so keen to try it on. Up the stairs thundered the driver, an enormous bearded Irishman, who suggested the scrotes might like to "vacate the vehicle immediately" - or words to that effect, in a broad Irish accent. He continued his tirade about what would happen if he saw them on his bus again as they scurried off down the stairs and into the night. It was the last bus of the night and mid-winter, so presumably they had a nice walk ahead of them.

Today they would be classified as vulnerable yoofs and could probably sue the bus operator for the trauma & humiliation. But it was great fun to witness at the time.

 

[Drogba11CFC]

There are "full kit" spotters out there? Now I've heard it all.

Just wait until you see the "custom kit" spotters.

 

[al78]

My favourite incident was on a bus, rather than train and is from the good old days in the late 1970s.

I was travelling home on the top deck of a Lancashire United bus late one night (that's the original LUT in South Lancashire, of course). Part way through the journey two lippy young scrotes got on and also sat upstairs. The bus was crew operated, so presently a conductress came to collect their fares. She was a very slightly-built woman who looked as if she hadn't been in the job too long (brand new leather cash bag and uniform).

The toe-rags thought this was their opportunity for a free ride home that night. They weren't particularly abusive, but made it clear they had no intention of paying fares. After a minute or so of trying to no effect, the conductress gave up and went back downstairs.

Seconds later the bus screeched to a halt, immediately followed by the sound of heavy boots on the stairs. Although crew operated, the bus was a front-entrance Daimler Fleetline, and maybe the lads should have paid a bit of attention to who was driving when they boarded, before being so keen to try it on. Up the stairs thundered the driver, an enormous bearded Irishman, who suggested the scrotes might like to "vacate the vehicle immediately" - or words to that effect, in a broad Irish accent. He continued his tirade about what would happen if he saw them on his bus again as they scurried off down the stairs and into the night. It was the last bus of the night and mid-winter, so presumably they had a nice walk ahead of them.

Today they would be classified as vulnerable yoofs and could probably sue the bus operator for the trauma & humiliation. But it was great fun to witness at the time.

In such a situation, what would happen if the scroats had been particularly gutsy and still refused? I doubt the driver would have assaulted them as that would likely put him up for assault charges and possibly jeapordise his job (which is a shame). Would the driver be allowed to physically grab hold of someone, carry them to the door and physically throw them off if they had kept up their attitude?

 

[AngelicUpstart]

A friend of mine who was a guard tells a tale of a couple who got on his train and had tickets that were valid but not via the route they were on. He explains this and they, he guesses, pretend to be French and not speak English very well. So he explains very slowly, still with no luck. He starts playing with his ticket machine and suddenly comments "Oh, sorry my mistake! We owe you.". At which point, the woman, in a broad English accent exclaims "How much?". Game over!

A couple of weeks later, he spots the same couple getting on the same train. Same ticket, same excuse. His first line, "Shall we cut to the part where I comment that we owe you money?"

 

[Chew Chew]

In such a situation, what would happen if the scroats had been particularly gutsy and still refused? I doubt the driver would have assaulted them as that would likely put him up for assault charges and possibly jeapordise his job (which is a shame). Would the driver be allowed to physically grab hold of someone, carry them to the door and physically throw them off if they had kept up their attitude?

Very much a different age and time then in regards to what the police would have been interested in looking into.

 

[Bletchleyite]

In such a situation, what would happen if the scroats had been particularly gutsy and still refused? I doubt the driver would have assaulted them as that would likely put him up for assault charges and possibly jeapordise his job (which is a shame). Would the driver be allowed to physically grab hold of someone, carry them to the door and physically throw them off if they had kept up their attitude?

In the 1970s that may well have happened. Society was different then - you had fewer rights and more responsibilities. If you failed to pay your fare (your responsibility), you lost the right to travel, so off you would be chucked, quite possibly literally.

With regard to slight-looking female conductors, I once saw a ScotRail guard fitting that description chase a fare dodger off a train and out of the station. I don't know if she caught him (she did come back quite quickly) but they are made of sterner stuff up there than down South!

 

[Deepgreen]

In such a situation, what would happen if the scroats had been particularly gutsy and still refused? I doubt the driver would have assaulted them as that would likely put him up for assault charges and possibly jeapordise his job (which is a shame). Would the driver be allowed to physically grab hold of someone, carry them to the door and physically throw them off if they had kept up their attitude?

Different times and different methods - 1970s buses had no CCTV and removal of yobs was more direct - today, CCTV makes evidence for subsequent prosecution more available, but balanced by a changed attitude towards 'discipline'.

Even today, direct action can be fruitful - I was involved in incident on my way home several months ago where a youth/young man got on at East Croydon, came into the first class where I was sitting and sat down next to me, then started jigging about violently. I looked across at him and he suddenly leaned into me and started being verbally abusive. I was at the window seat, he at the aisle. He presumably expected genteel Surrey first class treatment - i.e. ignore/move. Not so - as I was effectively trapped by him and he kept asking me what I was ****ing well going to do about it. I did do something about it, and hauled him up, pinning him against the opposite wall and advised him to behave himself, as he was on CCTV and in front of numerous witnesses, until he shut up and slumped into another seat. He got off at the next stop (Purley). I reported the incident to the guard at Redhill where I alighted, but he wasn't interested. Direct action can sometimes work.

 

[al78]

Different times and different methods - 1970s buses had no CCTV and removal of yobs was more direct - today, CCTV makes evidence for subsequent prosecution more available, but balanced by a changed attitude towards 'discipline'.

Even today, direct action can be fruitful - I was involved in incident on my way home several months ago where a youth/young man got on at East Croydon, came into the first class where I was sitting and sat down next to me, then started jigging about violently. I looked across at him and he suddenly leaned into me and started being verbally abusive. I was at the window seat, he at the aisle. He presumably expected genteel Surrey first class treatment - i.e. ignore/move. Not so - as I was effectively trapped by him and he kept asking me what I was ****ing well going to do about it. I did do something about it, and hauled him up, pinning him against the opposite wall and advised him to behave himself, as he was on CCTV and in front of numerous witnesses, until he shut up and slumped into another seat. He got off at the next stop (Purley). I reported the incident to the guard at Redhill where I alighted, but he wasn't interested. Direct action can sometimes work.

Yes, direct action can sometimes work, when it does it is very satisfying, when it doesn't, it can put you in hospital or a coffin in the worst case. It is probably more likely to work if you have a large frame with a voice and attitude to match. In my case I only weigh 10 stone and am naturally passive/nervous so I am not going to intimidate anyone into behaving themselves (much as I would like too sometimes).