Does London need more express services on major routes?

[NorthKent1989]

Currently the only express TfL bus routes in London are; The 607 (Shepherds Bush to Uxbridge) X26 (Croydon to Heathrow) and the X68 (Croydon to Holborn, am/pm peaks only)

However I can recall several other express routes in London right up until the early 2000s, The X53 (Thamesmead to Oxford Street, I loved this route as not only did I live along the route, it also had a lengthy non stop run from Blackheath to Elephant & Castle, it was like a bus version of the Met Line)

The X43 (Finchley to the City), X15 (Beckton to Trafalgar Square) and the X72 (Thamesmead to Woolwich, this skipped a huge chunk of the Abbey Wood section of the 272)

Should TfL reintroduce express buses? They don't have to run all day everyday (though the 607 and X26 do) but they could run at peak times or perhaps 2bph during weekdays only, express routes would be handy especially for South East London where tubes don't run and trains are often packed, the 89 (Slade Green to Lewisham) serves areas that aren't well served by trains (Shooters Hill for instance) so there could be an X89 for commuters in the am/pm peak another route that could do with an express equivalent is the 180 (Belvedere to Lewisham) this could be numbered as the 780 or X80

 

[Deerfold]

Currently the only express TfL bus routes in London are; The 607 (Shepherds Bush to Uxbridge) X26 (Croydon to Heathrow) and the X68 (Croydon to Holborn, am/pm peaks only)

However I can recall several other express routes in London right up until the early 2000s, The X53 (Thamesmead to Oxford Street, I loved this route as not only did I live along the route, it also had a lengthy non stop run from Blackheath to Elephant & Castle, it was like a bus version of the Met Line)

The X43 (Finchley to the City), X15 (Beckton to Trafalgar Square) and the X72 (Thamesmead to Woolwich, this skipped a huge chunk of the Abbey Wood section of the 272)

Should TfL reintroduce express buses? They don't have to run all day everyday (though the 607 and X26 do) but they could run at peak times or perhaps 2bph during weekdays only, express routes would be handy especially for South East London where tubes don't run and trains are often packed, the 89 (Slade Green to Lewisham) serves areas that aren't well served by trains (Shooters Hill for instance) so there could be an X89 for commuters in the am/pm peak another route that could do with an express equivalent is the 180 (Belvedere to Lewisham) this could be numbered as the 780 or X80

I saw some research done in London as this idea had been raised. The 607 was investigated using real time data - this found that more people would be likely to benefit if the buses on the 607 were replaced with more buses on the 207 (for those making a journey within the bounds of the 207). Although some people benefit from the bus being faster, more minutes are lost by those having to watch a bus go past. This may change if the 607 could move faster when missing stops out.

 

[Busaholic]

Currently the only express TfL bus routes in London are; The 607 (Shepherds Bush to Uxbridge) X26 (Croydon to Heathrow) and the X68 (Croydon to Holborn, am/pm peaks only)

However I can recall several other express routes in London right up until the early 2000s, The X53 (Thamesmead to Oxford Street, I loved this route as not only did I live along the route, it also had a lengthy non stop run from Blackheath to Elephant & Castle, it was like a bus version of the Met Line)

The X43 (Finchley to the City), X15 (Beckton to Trafalgar Square) and the X72 (Thamesmead to Woolwich, this skipped a huge chunk of the Abbey Wood section of the 272)

Should TfL reintroduce express buses? They don't have to run all day everyday (though the 607 and X26 do) but they could run at peak times or perhaps 2bph during weekdays only, express routes would be handy especially for South East London where tubes don't run and trains are often packed, the 89 (Slade Green to Lewisham) serves areas that aren't well served by trains (Shooters Hill for instance) so there could be an X89 for commuters in the am/pm peak another route that could do with an express equivalent is the 180 (Belvedere to Lewisham) this could be numbered as the 780 or X80

My last home in London was in Blackheath, and all my London homes over the years were in S.E.London, and I well remember the 53X and the 177X (yes, the X came after the number in the case of those two routes alone). I also remember many times exercising my dog on Blackheath in the evening peak and watching a stream of Routemasters on the main 53 route in the distance, well-filled buses too, with many of those passengers having travelled from central London, even though the fares weren't so advantageous for long journeys then. I'm afraid the problem now, all over London but at its most extreme in S.E. London, is that the roads are so congested that the proposition of an 'express' version of a route is a non-starter, with no 'alternative' routeings available and any notional time saving by omitting, say, twenty or thirty stops would only be five minutes or so, given the speed of boarding these days.Despite bus lanes, the amount of road space for buses is declining all the time, with the political decision to give over so much space for cyclists, and the growth of small parcel delivery systems (the Amazon effect) means more of that declining vehicle space is blocked.

 

[Bletchleyite]

I can see a case for the German Schnellbus concept being used for bus routes serving central London from poorly served (by rail) suburbs. These could have high quality (think Stagecoach Gold) interiors due to the longer journeys, and run semifast.

Should they compete with rail? No, not really - London has as close to a single public transport system as we get in the UK.

 

[NorthKent1989]

All good points.

Yes I vaguely remember the 177X, that was a beast, it had a longer non stop run than the
X53, I recall that after Woolwich it was non stop to Waterloo, this was when the 177 still used to run all the way to Central London up until around 1994 when the route was rerouted to serve Peckham instead, which made sense considering that it pretty much duplicated the 53, except for the fact that the 177 runs via Greenwich and the 53 via Blackheath, and they had different Central London terminals, 177 terminated at Holborn I recall and the 53 was Oxford Street.

While I see the point of cyclists being given more room on the roads this doesn't really effect SE London in the same way, largely due to the fact that the "Boris Bikes" hardly have any bike stations in this neck of the woods and cycle lanes here are as appalling now as they were back when Ken Livingstone was mayor.

I traveled on the 176 from Sydenham to Camberwell everyday, and you don't usually see cyclists until it gets to the Denmark Hill area, the 176 also flows pretty smoothly too despite running a part of its route on the South Circular Road, so there's no need for an express equivalent.

I'm surprised that the 36/136/436 routes have never had an express equivalent, though I guess its no longer necessary for those routes as now both the 136 and 436 branch off the main 36 route.

 

[Statto]

I remember the X43 Red Express which was Potters Bar-London Bridge using Scania Deckers that were transferred North to Liverpool around 1996, i also remember D1 think Waterloo-Docklands express

However most of the express routes ended when DLR or Jubilee Line was extended, X43 ended as patronage wasn't that great.

I don't think more express routes are needed, however links between West & East in North London are poor, & more routes could be introduced there.

 

[A0wen]

I can see a case for the German Schnellbus concept being used for bus routes serving central London from poorly served (by rail) suburbs. These could have high quality (think Stagecoach Gold) interiors due to the longer journeys, and run semifast.

Should they compete with rail? No, not really - London has as close to a single public transport system as we get in the UK.

Perhaps they could paint them Green and brand them Green Line.....

 

[Castle Cary]

Not quite the same thing, but the 132 'runs fast' from Greenwich Millennium Park to Eltham, using the Blackwall Tunnel approach roads and missing out East Greenwich, Westcombe Park and Blackheath Royal Standard.

 

[matt_world2004]

A 10 runs fast between heathrow central and stockley park

 

[Ianno87]

A 10 runs fast between heathrow central and stockley park

I think it's the only London Buses route to operate on a Motorway (the M4 spur)?

 

[sk688]

Imo , we need express services on orbital routes

This is because to go from outer - Central London the train will always be quicker , but if youre going orbital , such as th 83 ( Alperton - Golders Green ) , that would need Piccadilly into Central london , and change for the Northern , so you would have to take the tortuously slow bus

Examples of orbital routes which should have an express : 83,140,120 , 483 , 487 , 182 , 186 , 114

 

[PeterC]

Imo , we need express services on orbital routes

This is because to go from outer - Central London the train will always be quicker , but if youre going orbital , such as th 83 ( Alperton - Golders Green ) , that would need Piccadilly into Central london , and change for the Northern , so you would have to take the tortuously slow bus

Examples of orbital routes which should have an express : 83,140,120 , 483 , 487 , 182 , 186 , 114

I agree about orbital routes but what you need is either a heavy end to end traffic or a group of pick up points with heavy traffic plus a long run. Then you need a road where the bus can take advantage of the absence of stops.

If the express keeps getting stuck at bus stops it is supposed to ignore because of other vehicles then there will just be a lot of bad PR about
ignoring "vulnerable" pensioners, children, wheelchair users etc

 

[NorthKent1989]

Well one route that needs an express is the 109 (Brixton to Croydon) its constantly busy, day and night, and although its a high frequency route, and usually runs every 7-10 mins, the route is packed the very moment it leaves Croydon and enters Thornton Heath,
The 109 is like a feeder route route for the Victoria line as the majority of its passengers travel to Brixton and change there.

 

[PeterC]

Well one route that needs an express is the 109 (Brixton to Croydon) its constantly busy, day and night, and although its a high frequency route, and usually runs every 7-10 mins, the route is packed the very moment it leaves Croydon and enters Thornton Heath,

But are the passengers filling the buses at those points the same people?

 

[NorthKent1989]

But are the passengers filling the buses at those points the same people?

The bus stops it serves are usually filled with 7-12 people especially around Norbury, Streatham is the point where a lot of people do disembark and the last leg of the route isn't as busy but its still pretty heavy loaded

 

[Busaholic]

Well one route that needs an express is the 109 (Brixton to Croydon) its constantly busy, day and night, and although its a high frequency route, and usually runs every 7-10 mins, the route is packed the very moment it leaves Croydon and enters Thornton Heath,
The 109 is like a feeder route route for the Victoria line as the majority of its passengers travel to Brixton and change there.

I can't agree with you on this: maybe if the 109 still reached Trafalgar Square, then there MIGHT be a case, but there are no alternative routes that could be taken by expresses between Croydon and Brixton. About three weeks ago I had to take a minicab from Mayday Hospital to Streatham at school chuck-out time and the driver insisted on taking an 'alternative' route because of traffic congestion, which both took longer and cost me 60% more than the straightforward journey the other way. The X68 can succeed because it has a long non-stop section, which you could never get with a X109. By the way, I remember when the 109 had a 1 to 2 minute frequency between South Croydon and Kennington at peak periods, before the route split to perform the circular bit to Embankment via Westminster or Blackfriars Bridge. 'Express' in those days meant a driver heading for his meal break/end of shift and overtaking six or seven other 109s on his way to Thornton Heath!

 

[Mutant Lemming]

Maybe they could be painted green to distinguish them from the all stops routes and may be extended to outlying commuter towns.