Does the first Redhill to Gatwick airport train ever run?

[joncombe]

I was looking to stay over in Redhill for an early flight from Gatwick Airport (much cheaper than staying at Gatwick Airport) but would need to take the first train from Redhill to Gatwick Airport, which is a GWR service. It leaves at 04:45 on weekdays and 05:08 on Saturday.

Looking at real time trains:-

• Today (10/07) Cancelled (planning error).
• 09/07 Cancelled (planning error)
• 08/07 Cancelled (Issue with train crew)
• 07/07 N/A (Sunday, first service is not GWR)
• 06/07 Cancelled (Inbound service late)
• 05/07 Cancelled (Issue with train crew)
• 04/07 Cancelled (Planning error)
• 03/07 Cancelled (Planning error)

This is as far back as Real time train goes, but I imagine the pattern repeats. So looks like my plan isn't going to work. But what is the point in scheduling a train that seemingly is never going to run?

 

[Mcr Warrior]

Interesting. The 0445 Redhill -> Gatwick Airport operated by GWR does, however, seem to have run every weekday between 10JUN2024 and 27JUN2024.

 

[signed]

If the train doesn't run, Metrobus could save you.

On weekdays :

- 460 is timetabled to leave Redhill at 0413 (arriving at 0444)
- Fastway 100 at 0438 (arriving at 0521)

 

[30907]

If the train doesn't run, Metrobus could save you.

On weekdays :

- 460 is timetabled to leave Redhill at 0413 (arriving at 0444)
- Fastway 100 at 0438 (arriving at 0521)

Good spot. I recall in March 2020 when I was in a similar situation discovering that Gatwick is very well served by local buses (no doubt mostly aimed at staff). For well-known reasons I didn't actually test the offer

 

[signed]

I was in a similar situation discovering that Gatwick is very well served by local buses

Most major airports seem to have a good service for staff, but Metrobus seems to give a very good service, with some routes being 24/7 every 15min

 

[JonathanH]

All depends on whether the last train from Reading runs as there is only one GWR train at Redhill overnight, with an overnight turn for the Reading driver.

The early 460s load fairly well for services of an early morning, running seven days a week.

 

[Horizon22]

Most major airports seem to have a good service for staff, but Metrobus seems to give a very good service, with some routes being 24/7 every 15min

Most London airports also still have a good bus service (24/7 or very close to it, every 15-30 mins) to the major surrounding towns not only for the early morning departures / late night arrivals but also as you say for the staff.

Redhill & Horley no doubt have a fair number of residents where Gatwick is their workplace.

 

[PGAT]

It actually ran today!

 

[Siemens Staines]

But not tomorrow;

12/07/24 04:45 Redhill to Gatwick Airport due 04:54 will be cancelled.
12/07/24 05:11 Gatwick Airport to Reading due 06:52 will be cancelled.

 

[Horizon22]

What exactly are these “planning errors”? Was it booked to run through a possession / line block? No crew resourced to run the service? Fleet out of hours? Issues with 1O96 the night before?

It’s presumably the first Redhill book on guard, but the driver is a night turn from Reading who works the service to Redhill in/out of sidings and then down to Gatwick and back to Reading.

 

[FGW_DID]

What exactly are these “planning errors”? Was it booked to run through a possession / line block? No crew resourced to run the service? Fleet out of hours? Issues with 1O96 the night before?

It’s presumably the first Redhill book on guard, but the driver is a night turn from Reading who works the service to Redhill in/out of sidings and then down to Gatwick and back to Reading.

The previous nights 1O96 hasn't run. As seems to have happened in past threads, the interpretation of the cancellation code shown on RTT is a bit of a broad brush.
According to rail-record.co.uk code TI is "Traincrew Rostering problems". I've been in work for the last week and when the ECS (5O96) hasn't been required off the depot it has been down to no driver available. (I don't know the reason behind why there hasn't been one available, rostering, sickness etc.)

 

[Horizon22]

The previous nights 1O96 hasn't run. As seems to have happened in past threads, the interpretation of the cancellation code shown on RTT is a bit of a broad brush.
According to rail-record.co.uk code TI is "Traincrew Rostering problems". I've been in work for the last week and when the ECS (5O96) hasn't been required off the depot it has been down to no driver available. (I don't know the reason behind why there hasn't been one available, rostering, sickness etc.)

Redhill doesn't have a driver depot though for GWR so surely it would be the same driver of 1O96 who does 5O96 and then 5D04 and 1D04? So either they all run, or none of them run?

 

[FGW_DID]

Redhill doesn't have a driver depot though for GWR so surely it would be the same driver of 1O96 who does 5O96 and then 5D04 and 1D04? So either they all run, or none of them run?

Yes exactly, that’s what I was saying, the TCD hasn’t needed to send 5O96 out as there has been no driver for 1O96, therefore no unit or driver at Redhill overnight so 5D04/2D04 doesn’t run.
The diagram concerned usually gets picked up again in the morning with 1O58.

 

[zwk500]

I was looking to stay over in Redhill for an early flight from Gatwick Airport (much cheaper than staying at Gatwick Airport) but would need to take the first train from Redhill to Gatwick Airport, which is a GWR service. It leaves at 04:45 on weekdays and 05:08 on Saturday.

Looking at real time trains:-

• Today (10/07) Cancelled (planning error).
• 09/07 Cancelled (planning error)
• 08/07 Cancelled (Issue with train crew)
• 07/07 N/A (Sunday, first service is not GWR)
• 06/07 Cancelled (Inbound service late)
• 05/07 Cancelled (Issue with train crew)
• 04/07 Cancelled (Planning error)
• 03/07 Cancelled (Planning error)

This is as far back as Real time train goes, but I imagine the pattern repeats. So looks like my plan isn't going to work. But what is the point in scheduling a train that seemingly is never going to run?

It's had a bad run recently but does largely run, according to this Recent Train Times Link: https://www.recenttraintimes.co.uk/...u=&MxSvAg=&MnScCt=&ArrGph=ArrGph#HeadingGraph

Graph showing booked (lighter colours) and actual (darker colours) of arrivals at Gatwick Airport from Redhill of trains departing Redhill 0400-0800 weekdays, for the last 12 weeks.
Gaps indicate planned cancellations/not planned to run, Red box with white C is cancellation on the day. Not 100% sure of the different colours but assume it's marking different STP changes.

link: https://www.recenttraintimes.co.uk/...1314-7d89dc00-c7d6-42ca-bf88-853d8c2fab91.png

 

[Fenchurch SP]

I'm often in the station at that time to catch the early Thameslink train and sometimes the cancellation of the GWR train is not announced until quite late so I would recommend getting the bus.

 

[FenMan]

All depends on whether the last train from Reading runs as there is only one GWR train at Redhill overnight, with an overnight turn for the Reading driver.

The early 460s load fairly well for services of an early morning, running seven days a week.

Since Monday 17 June, the last train from Reading to Gatwick has been cancelled 19 times out of 30, a 63% failure rate. Obviously this also means the first train from Gatwick to Reading the following morning has also been cancelled.

Very, very poor. I'm not inclined to risk spending an evening in Reading until this is fixed.

 

[Deepgreen]

Yes, this service failure rate is abysmal, and just at the times when there is little alternative in many cases.

Since Monday 17 June, the last train from Reading to Gatwick has been cancelled 19 times out of 30, a 63% failure rate. Obviously this also means the first train from Gatwick to Reading the following morning has also been cancelled.

Very, very poor. I'm not inclined to risk spending an evening in Reading until this is fixed.

Risky in itself...

To the OP, would the 0518 Thameslink from Redhill get you to Gatwick in time, albeit with a tighter connection?

 

[JonathanH]

Very, very poor. I'm not inclined to risk spending an evening in Reading until this is fixed.

Reading is fine as with it being a staffed station someone will organise alternative transport. Other locations less so.

 

[joncombe]

Risky in itself...

To the OP, would the 0518 Thameslink from Redhill get you to Gatwick in time, albeit with a tighter connection?

Thanks for the advice. I used the bus mentioned earlier in the thread in the end, albeit it required an earlier start. Both the first GWR train and the Thameslink one were cancelled on the day. But very poor there should be more focus on running first and last trains in particular because there is often no alternative.

 

[JonathanH]

But very poor there should be more focus on running first and last trains in particular because there is often no alternative.

It is all very well saying that but if there isn't a member of traincrew able to work the shift there isn't really much that can be done.

 

[FenMan]

Reading is fine as with it being a staffed station someone will organise alternative transport. Other locations less so.

A far from adequate answer.

I'm not much interested in hunting down a GWR rep at Reading station at 11pm or later - if they exist. I want to rock up after a show/concert/sporting fixture/whatever and catch the advertised service home with no hassle.

And en-route, you're saying customers from places like Wokingham and Guildford, expecting to catch the last train, are just left to call a know-nothing call centre rep in Bengaluru? It would seem so, judging by GWR's dismal recent record.

I can only speculate a local dispute has broken out over GWR staff operating the last train to Gatwick and the first one out the following day, as it hasn't been an issue for many years.

Perhaps all concerned need to remember they work in a service industry that is all about providing the service as advertised?

 

[Minstral25]

It is all very well saying that but if there isn't a member of traincrew able to work the shift there isn't really much that can be done.

Then they need to look at their systems for ensuring a member of staff is available which has obviously failed in last few weeks. It's no good potentially leaving passengers on unattended platforms because they have not made appropriate staff provision. Or making them miss their flights or work as first train isn't run.

1st and last trains should always be treated as sacrosanct.

 

[zwk500]

Then they need to look at their systems for ensuring a member of staff is available which has obviously failed in last few weeks. It's no good potentially leaving passengers on unattended platforms because they have not made appropriate staff provision. Or making them miss their flights or work as first train isn't run.

1st and last trains should always be treated as sacrosanct.

Perhaps the problem isn't with GWR but they who hold the pursestrings.

 

[Minstral25]

Perhaps the problem isn't with GWR but they who hold the pursestrings.

Undoubtedly, but it still falls back to GWR to make sure first and last published trains run as people rely on them. So this one is still on GWR planning.

 

[sp503]

Perhaps the problem isn't with GWR but they who hold the pursestrings.

There should always be buffer somewhere insofar as the purse is concerned. The problem is more with the planning, or the regulatory body come to that. Not running the first / last train has much more serious consequences than any other train in the middle of the day. Cancelling these trains should lead to a more serious consequence as a result. Unless the problem is with something uncontrollable such as infrastructure failures (which usually affects not only one but a lot of trains), cancelling the first / last train simply means bad planning.

 

[JonathanH]

How do you ensure that the night turn is always covered though? How many cover staff need to be rostered to ensure it runs? It doesn't seem like a member of staff can simply be told to work 23:30 to 07:00 instead of whatever else they were meant to do.

 

[Somewhere]

How do you ensure that the night turn is always covered though? How many cover staff need to be rostered to ensure it runs? It doesn't seem like a member of staff can simply be told to work 23:30 to 07:00 instead of whatever else they were meant to do.

And even if you do have cover staff, they'll end up being pulled off to cover something else.

GTR drivers used to drive the Turbos from Redhill, but they threw in the towel a little while ago

 

[Minstral25]

And even if you do have cover staff, they'll end up being pulled off to cover something else.

GTR drivers used to drive the Turbos from Redhill, but they threw in the towel a little while ago

Perhaps with Great British Railways the arrangement can recommence?? GTR & GWR should be working together for the passengers, not competing!

 

[Somewhere]

Perhaps with Great British Railways the arrangement can recommence?? GTR & GWR should be working together for the passengers, not competing!

Back in the day drivers did whatever trains ran through their area, passenger or freight. Let's see what happens. I wouldn't be surprised if everything got painted the same colour, but all the other differences remained the same

 

[FenMan]

Whatever the issue is (or was), the last train from Reading has run as timetabled since Monday. Which means the first train to Reading has also run.

Good. Keep it up.