Does the NRCoT apply to cross-London transfers, and can you claim delay compensation from LU?

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by Belperpete, 11 Jun 2019.

  1. Belperpete

    Belperpete Member

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    Last edited by a moderator: 11 Jun 2019
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  3. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    If a delay to the Underground caused a knock-on delay to your journey as a whole you can claim delay compensation from TfL.
     
  4. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    On TfL Rail and Overground this is correct, but this is not true for journeys on the Underground, which is not covered by the NRCoT.
     
  5. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    You are still entitled to delay compensation - not necessarily the same level of delay compensation offered by franchised TOCs under Delay Repay, but certainly something. I also don't know why you are suggesting that the NRCoT wouldn't apply to travel on the Underground, if you've bought a ticket that covers your Underground travel and says on the back that it is "issued subject to the National Rail Conditions of Travel". That's not to say TfL's Conditions of Carriage can't also apply at the same time.
     
  6. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    Tube journeys are covered by TfL's Conditions of Carriage for Underground and Bus, not the NRCoT.

    Having your ticket printed on stock which says "NRCoT" doesn't mean the conditions apply any more than if they erroneously said they were subject to British Airways' conditions of carriage. You can't travel under two conditions of carriage.

    You can claim delay compensation only for the cost of the Tube journey.
     
  7. ForTheLoveOf

    ForTheLoveOf Established Member

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    Who says two conditions of carriage can't apply? Where are the Tube Conditions of Carriage even referenced when you buy a ticket?

    It is all mired in such legal quagmire that TfL would be quite silly to try and pay only a pittance in compensation based on the value of the Tube subsection of the journey. Certainly, if they did this to me I would not hesitate to take legal action as it's quite clearly unacceptable.
     
  8. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    Of course you would. Feel free to attempt to apply the NRCoT - which explicitly excludes London Underground, and which explicitly explains it applies only to journeys made on the National Rail network - to a Tube journey, and let us know the result.
     
    Last edited: 11 Jun 2019
  9. Fawkes Cat

    Fawkes Cat Member

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    Indeed. let's have a look at what NRCoT has to say (March 2018 version, downloaded via https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.nationalrail.co.uk/National%20Rail%20Conditions%20of%20Travel.pdf&ved=2ahUKEwiI272LyOHiAhWEtXEKHdQeDbgQFjAEegQICBAG&usg=AOvVaw0_JTaGfQWENfQte1sKzOHl)

    (my bold)

    (note the absence of any organizations operating London Underground services)

    While a ticket valid on the Underground might be issued on stock applying the NRCoT, the first paragraph of the NRCoT disapplies it from Underground services.
     
  10. etr221

    etr221 Member

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    Hmmm ... what NRCoT does not do is make any reference to TfL's CoC (or indeed any other non-NR carrier's), so my attitude would be that, having bought a ticket from NR, for an NR journey (from one NR station to another, on an NR supplied itinerary), which specified that NRCoT applied, then my contract is with (collectively) NR, and if there is a delay ('delayed in reaching destination') then the compensation, etc. would be as per the NRCoT - claimable from one or other relevant ToC - and that it would be for them to claim back off TfL if and as appropriate.

    If on the other hand, the NRCoT did say 'TfL CoC apply for any part of the journey they provide' (or words to that effect), then things might be different - but they don't.
     
  11. AlterEgo

    AlterEgo Veteran Member

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    But if you're delayed on the Tube on a journey from, say, Woking to Milton Keynes, there is no "relevant TOC" to claim from. London Underground are not a TOC and their conditions apply whether you were informed about it at the time of sale or not. Same goes with SailRail or journeys involving a water crossing.
     
  12. alistairlees

    alistairlees Member

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    Plusbus tickets are printed on normal CCST stock. Does the NRCoT apply to bus companies?
     
  13. transmanche

    transmanche Established Member

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    They do.

     
  14. Llanigraham

    Llanigraham On Moderation

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    Good luck with that.
    I would suggest that you would be laughed out of Court, as has been explained above.
     
  15. Coolzac

    Coolzac Member

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    On a slightly separate but important note. If you started a journey on the tube, using oyster, going to a London Terminal and then onwards from there on an advance ticket, but the tube was heavily delayed and you missed your train, would you be allowed to take a later service or would you have to buy a new ticket?

    For example Westbourne Park to Kings Cross on the Underground, then Kings Cross to York on an advance ticket.

    I would hope the guards would take a common sense view, but I imagine in theory you would have to buy another ticket?

    What might slightly complicate matters is you can get valid itineraries from zone 1 tube stations on National Rail- so for example I typed in Notting Hill Gate to York and it comes up with an itinerary on National Rail.
     
  16. Starmill

    Starmill Events Co-ordinator

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    From Network Rail? Network Rail don't sell tickets.
     
  17. Arctic Troll

    Arctic Troll Established Member

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    It's not a simple question. Generally you should go to the ticket office and get the ticket endorsed. Success varies. Some seem to take the view you are only covered where you start at a NR station.

    Do let us know how you get on(!)
     

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