Does the Rail hobby need a kick up the......

[Condor7]

My guess is the hobby has about 15/20 years left at the most before it goes into serious decline.
It is (as far as I can see, and I am prepared to be corrected on this) supported by mostly gentleman in their later years. Myself being one of them.
We were the train spotters of the 50's and 60's when platforms and line side always had a healthy group of boys pursuing the hobby.
Now those same ones are what you find on most platforms and line side today.

Some have abandoned the spotters books for cameras but it is only occasionally we see younger men and even rarer young boys.
(I know this is a bit sexest as I am aware there are some females in the hobby but they are in the minority.)

If we are going to replace us ageing enthusiasts over the next few years before we go to the great railway shed in the sky, we need to up date the image.

I recently wanted to contact Transportvideo.com who publish the excellent Videotrack, as in the latest dvd, they did a feature on Cumbrian locations, but strangely concentrated mainly on Carnforth (in Lancashire) Skipton and Hellifield (in North Yorkshire) and only briefly touched on Kirkby Stephen and Appleby the only two locations actually in Cumbria.
However upon trying to contact them I see that they do not have an email address, and contact has to be by phone or by letter.

It is also not unusual to see adverts for products where cheques are still requested for payment.

Some videos are also still introduced by Cardiganed gentlemen wearing glasses Denis Taylor would be proud to own.

The young today do not know what a cheque book is, and are certainly not going to get out the Basildon Bond to write in anywhere.

Everything is on computers, ipads or mobile devices. If I ask my children anything they invariably tap their mobiles and find the answer, or book a restaurant, or a cinema ticket to collect when they arrive.

I cannot think of an app that is available for the rail enthusiast.
There is nothing cool about the hobby, nothing slick and modern.

I may be being a little unfair, and do not want to take away anything from those that do work hard in the hobby, but as I started off by saying, if we don't do something now, there will not be the enthusiasts around in the current numbers to support the hobby, it really does need updating.

 

[yorkie]

My guess is the hobby has about 15/20 years left at the most before it goes into serious decline...

The hobby of standing on the end of platforms spotting? That's quite specific and if so, yes I agree completely.

There will always be people interested in railways, but in mostly different ways.

Many people have met through this forum, but they don't arrange to meet and stand on the end of a platform. Times change!

 

[wbbminerals]

What you have to bare in mind is that the older generation will almost always be the most visible as they have the largest amount of leisure time to fulfil with such activities as 'wagon spotting'. This is quite evident when one visits Doncaster on a weekday where the older people outnumber the younger people for obvious reasons!

I would agree that the hobby does not appeal at all to many young people, as there are Xboxs etc to entertain them these days. Having said that there are still some young people enjoying the hobby, though of course not nearly as many as in the past.

In areas such as West Yorkshire I believe that things such as the summer steam trains to Scarborough may help start an enthusiasm for railways. This was one of the things that got me into the hobby.

TV programmes such as 'Thomas The Tank Engine' and latterly 'Chuggington' can't do any harm either.

 

[musicking1306]

Hello Condor7

I am currently 16 years of age an I do agree with what you say to a degree with the hobby being not as modern and technology using as other hobbies are. There are some groups that utilise Facebook to share photos with each other such as The UK HST Enthusiast group.
I have found that there are some people my age who enjoy getting pictures of trains and a number of people who upload them to social networking sites.

I have found that there is a decline of rail enthusiasts of my age, however I would probably put that down to platform staff not liking people at the end of the platform and following the book. I also have experiences of it being frowned upon by modern society and teenagers these days in schools do tend to be "Picked on" for being a rail enthusiast.

I also think that the railway is very different place than it used to be 20 years ago with little variation of stock and very few railtours. I can see the point that you are making with the lack of young rail enthusiasts but it isn't like you could go down to your local station and get a 37, 47 or a 50 nowadays you have to put up with 158, 150 and HST's

I still find being a Rail Enthusiast cool and will continue to go around the country. (When I get time.) The problem is that you can just go about the country now;
1. It is too expensive.
2. There isn't very many sleepers to sleep on now.
3. Places arn't as safe as they where (Also safety in numbers.)

The days where you can disappear for a few days and just go Train spotting are sadly gone.

Tom

 

[43074]

I cannot think of an app that is available for the rail enthusiast.
There is nothing cool about the hobby, nothing slick and modern.

I agree it needs updating, but I struggle to see how to update it.

I can't think an app giving you a list of numbers or a database so you can note the trains you have seen would get many downloads... but I think the hobby has evolved around using a spotters book/notebook and pen, so I think it will stay outdated for the foreseeable future.

 

[ryan125hst]

I suppose I, at 18 years old, am the next generation of rail enthusiast. I don't travel on trains that often (simply because I am at sixth form and don't have a job, and my parents have a car so prefer to drive in most cases) and don't spend hours on a station platform. Instead I spend time on here, I watch YouTube videos and look at photographs of trains. I am also interested in reading about: the history, what things are like now and what is planned for the future.

This is convenient for me as I can do this around doing a bit of work or revision. I usually go to the station if a steam train is due through, and I would love to be able to spend more time on trains and at stations, but it just isn't possible for me at the minute.

The big question is, how are people becoming rail enthusiasts? For me, my Great Grandad and my some of my Great Uncles used to work on the railway in the Tuxford area. As well as this, living in Retford near the ECML, being taken to a playground right next to the track, and going on walks with my Grandparents down the "Cinder track" in Tuxford as I was growing up has meant that I have always liked trains. My secondary school was then relocating to a new building right next to the ECML and that is what made me become a true rail enthusiast.

I can see that the interest has been lost in some ways: Many stations are unstaffed, locomotive hauled trains are all but gone and even the infrastructure is changing as lines are resignalled, causing semaphores to go and signal boxes to close. I certainly wish I was born at least ten years earlier or more. That said, the railways are still very interesting for me and, as much as I am sad at the decline of the railways in some areas, I am pleased to see the improvements and look forward to seeing what will happen in the future as they are modernised.

I certainly agree about the apps- There does need to be more of them.

 

[musicking1306]

I agree it needs updating, but I struggle to see how to update it.

I can't think an app giving you a list of numbers or a database so you can note the trains you have seen would get many downloads... but I think the hobby has evolved around using a spotters book/notebook and pen, so I think it will stay outdated for the foreseeable future.

An app which you can tick off the numbers of trains which you have spotted would be good. I would download that app though 43074. Condor7 is right with the need for some more technological envolvment with the hobby.

 

[the sniper]

I see as many teenage enthusiast about on the platforms nowadays as old boys. Maybe it's a regional thing. The number of young people on here is very high, you probably just haven't realised the age of many of the people who you talk to on here. This site, You Tube and the likes of Real Train Times are 21st Century resources for young enthusiasts. I also know a good number of young people who are enthusiasts that have got themselves jobs in the industry. I've never been a 'spotter' but I'm a life long enthusiast and have worked in the industry since I was 21. I've only been in for a couple of years.

The magazines often harp on about the lack of young enthusiasts, but I believe that's mainly because the young enthusiasts largely aren't buying their magazines and they fear they won't do in the future. Instead young enthusiasts seem to reply on sites like this and what else is available on the net.

 

[43074]

An app which you can tick off the numbers of trains which you have spotted would be good. I would download that app though 43074. Condor7 is right with the need for some more technological envolvment with the hobby.

Would anyone else use a similar app?

When I've finished my GCSE exams in a couple of weeks I will have time to kill this summer...

Just saying. No promises though... (got to teach myself basic programming first )

 

[musicking1306]

Would anyone else use a similar app?

When I've finished my GCSE exams in a couple of weeks I will have time to kill this summer...

Just saying. No promises though... (got to teach myself basic programming first )

After finishing my first year of sixth form I will be organising trips to do this summer. Unfortunately I will not be getting any time to create apps like this as I will be out an about on the railway!

 

[Tomnick]

There seems to be a common belief that railway enthusiasts are only ever found on platform ends with a notebook, and this thread does nothing to dispel that. As Yorkie suggests, there's a lot more to the hobby, and perhaps it's some of the other areas that might be more effective at attracting potentially interested youngsters? Personally, whenever I find myself near a platform end, I take a lot more interest in the bigger picture of what's going on - how the service is being regulated, clever moves to try and avoid conflicts and how the smallest problem is causing a knock-on effect elsewhere - and the infrastructure supporting that, than I do in individual locos or units (though I do appreciate a pair of 20s or a 37 on a heavy train!).

My involvement in the hobby is much more 'hands on' - amongst various other little bits and pieces, as a volunteer Signalman and now instructor on the GCR (and previously the North Norfolk). I find it much more rewarding being involved in the operation than I do standing on the outside looking in. I'm now fortunate enough to be able to do my hobby (the 'working mechanical signal boxes' bit of it at least) as a full time job, and I've no doubt that my voluntary experience contributed at least slightly to my success there. I reckon that there's a lot more satisfaction to be gained from all that, than there is from ticking numbers off in a book (or even on an app), and I'd certainly suggest that fellow enthusiasts could do worse than get involved with their local heritage railway in whatever capacity interests them.

 

[43074]

After finishing my first year of sixth form I will be organising trips to do this summer. Unfortunately I will not be getting any time to create apps like this as I will be out an about on the railway!

Well, so will I but on the rainy days...

I think the hobby is in decline, but that is due to (I think) the fact that the hobby was sparked in the days of steam. Then there was far more variety on the railways so more people were interested I suppose.

 

[wbbminerals]

Well, so will I but on the rainy days...

I think the hobby is in decline, but that is due to (I think) the fact that the hobby was first done in the 50s, at the end of steam. Then there was far more variety on the railways so more people were interested I suppose.

A relative of mine was taking part in the hobby in the 1940s.

 

[43074]

I'm 15 and *rarely* (I think about twice) have I seen/spoken to anyone about my age on the end of a platform doing the same hobby.

I became interested in trains at the North Yorkshire Moors Railway, and I now volunteer on the Great Central Railway. Photography is my main pursuit though... It's much more enjoyable (and rewarding) to be involved in the railway scene than to watch it from a distance
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

A relative of mine was taking part in the hobby in the 1940s.

Post now changed...

 

[Harbon 1]

I'm 17 and I suppose I'm the next generation

But it's a tricky one really. There will always be 'interest' in the railway, but there will probably be fewer younger 'spotters' around because of what this generation sees them as. For spotters there is two extremes, young and old. A lot of us got into railways by spotting, but have moved on to other things (photography and bashing for me), and their granddads still doing it.

Plus there's the fact that the railway is very same old now. Like replacing the many different classes of electric 'slammers' there are the desiros, which all look and sound the same.

On the subject of updating it, I recently brought the latest Loco, EMU and DMU numbers book for my haulages. After my dad finding his 1982 loco book, I thought it was much nicer to actually see your progress of clearing a class or sub-class in red on paper, rather than ticks on a spreadsheet or on an app, both of which can be lost very easily. Back when I was spotting though, I did note all the numbers on my iPod touch, before that landed in the bath...

 

[Condor7]

There seems to be a common belief that railway enthusiasts are only ever found on platform ends with a notebook, and this thread does nothing to dispel that. As Yorkie suggests, there's a lot more to the hobby, and perhaps it's some of the other areas that might be more effective at attracting potentially interested youngsters? Personally, whenever I find myself near a platform end, I take a lot more interest in the bigger picture of what's going on

Yes I take your point, and my thread was not designed to be so specific. The platform end etc is the visible sign of the hobby, as some have suggested their age on here is not always obvious.

I did not want to be taken to task so much on exactly what I said, as in the end I was trying to be slightly controversial.

It was more the spirit of what I was saying that I think matters, and certainly listening to the comment of the younger members, they seem to agree.

 

[MCW]

in terms of who I call the 'die hards' (sorry!) who just stand on platforms with notebooks and voice recorders, I totally agree. Sometimes I do go down to the local station and do some spotting myself, but I always primarily go there to take photos, as I love taking photos.

To me, there is a distinct lack of younger people interested in railways compared to the numbers of older gentlemen who go spotting currently. I am only 20 and i Normally feel 'outnumbered' and uncomfortable, in some respects, with being on a platform with older spotters, because I then get seen by people as a boring such and such who then get misconceptions about the hobby. Don't get me wrong, there are a great load of blokes out thee who know their stuff and i have the time to listen and talk with them, but I have encountered so many of them who can be quite, lets say, cranky with their attitude towards younger spotters.

Likewise I can say the same for some younger spotters, not all of them are like it, but a good few are. many of the youngsters like myself, whom I have met are very sociable and knowledgeable, I have even chatted to them on skye etc and we have become acquainted well, But some are just terrible... flailing their arms to get a driver to pull his horn, whilst near to the edge of the platform and holding a camera is kind of lunacy. I would never do that, as it is driver distraction, if they want to blow the ruddy horn they will do it themselves!

Sorry if this comes over as a misconception, but that is what runs inside my head and those are the reasons I think the sotting hobby is in decline, to some extent.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---

Yes I take your point, and my thread was not designed to be so specific. The platform end etc is the visible sign of the hobby, as some have suggested their age on here is not always obvious.

I did not want to be taken to task so much on exactly what I said, as in the end I was trying to be slightly controversial.

It was more the spirit of what I was saying that I think matters, and certainly listening to the comment of the younger members, they seem to agree.

actually I am pleased you started this thread, because it can help to overcme barriers within the hobby to an extent.

 

[Harbon 1]

Even though it's a hobby that is looked on badly by some people, I have no shame in saying I do what I do, and a lot of people like finding out why I like it. I've been in situations where I've been stood waiting for a train to somewhere with my friends, and I've darted off to get a picture of the freight of whatever coming through on another platform. I also got very excited when my Bulgarian friend suggested we go to her house in Bulgaria next year for a holiday, knowing I never saw 87's working over here, I'm allowed one day to go and find them over there :P

 

[PermitToTravel]

An app which you can tick off the numbers of trains which you have spotted would be good. I would download that app though 43074. Condor7 is right with the need for some more technological envolvment with the hobby.

This seems like a relatively simple app to write - is there a comprehensive list of train numbers available somewhere?

 

[MCW]

This seems like a relatively simple app to write - is there a comprehensive list of train numbers available somewhere?

Pretty easy to find a list actually, wnxx will have the updated lists of all mianline registered diesels and stuff like that so you wold need a simple java or flash app and bobs your uncle

 

[Harbon 1]

This seems like a relatively simple app to write - is there a comprehensive list of train numbers available somewhere?

Yes.

 

[wbbminerals]

Be careful not to breach copyright laws though?

 

[PermitToTravel]

Yes.

I'm interested, but not interested enough to buy that book, and manually enter all the information from it

Pretty easy to find a list actually, wnxx will have the updated lists of all mianline registered diesels and stuff like that so you wold need a simple java or flash app and bobs your uncle

The WNXX database is actually really useful, thanks! Do you know if there's something similar for multiple units? I can include those with the numbers only, but it obviously wouldn't be as rich as the loco data

Be careful not to breach copyright laws though?

Ah, "Fleet Status databases are available as is for personal use/reference. No part of the databases can be reproduced in print or electronic form for commercial gain without prior written permission. Copyright: All rights reserved - Ian Furness/WNXX". I'm not intending to make any money, but I'd best email them to ensure that it would quality as "personal use"

 

[Tomnick]

Yes I take your point, and my thread was not designed to be so specific. The platform end etc is the visible sign of the hobby, as some have suggested their age on here is not always obvious.

I did not want to be taken to task so much on exactly what I said, as in the end I was trying to be slightly controversial.

It was more the spirit of what I was saying that I think matters, and certainly listening to the comment of the younger members, they seem to agree.

Please don't think I'm taking you to task - you've started an interesting discussion, and you've spoken about the hobby as you perceive it. There's nothing wrong with that, and no criticism intended on my part! For what it's worth, I agree with your comments around a relative lack of interest from the younger generation - perhaps something best remedied by trying to move the general perception away from number crunching and towards a more varied view of the hobby.

 

[PermitToTravel]

Please don't think I'm taking you to task - you've started an interesting discussion, and you've spoken about the hobby as you perceive it. There's nothing wrong with that, and no criticism intended on my part! For what it's worth, I agree with your comments around a relative lack of interest from the younger generation - perhaps something best remedied by trying to move the general perception away from number crunching and towards a more varied view of the hobby.

On topic, I am a younger railway enthusiast, and I don't do the numbers thing. I have an appreciation of the technical workings of the railway and rolling stock, and while I do enjoy travelling on trains, particularly on stock/routes I have never ridden before, I mostly realise my hobby by reading rulebooks, manuals, and other information on the workings of railways. I would hazard a guess that many railway enthusiasts today share these characteristics

 

[ryan125hst]

Be careful not to breach copyright laws though?

As I understand it, as long as the person who was creating the app had permission to use the data in the book, then it would be fine to use it. Of course, if the person wanted to charge for the app, it would be reasonable for the publishers to charge to use the data.

 

[wbbminerals]

Of course it's ok with permission, I was just advising caution about taking someone else's work and making a derivative product without their permission. I'm sure people will be more cooperative if they are asked first.

 

[tbtc]

I recently wanted to contact Transportvideo.com who publish the excellent Videotrack, as in the latest dvd, they did a feature on Cumbrian locations, but strangely concentrated mainly on Carnforth (in Lancashire) Skipton and Hellifield (in North Yorkshire) and only briefly touched on Kirkby Stephen and Appleby the only two locations actually in Cumbria.
However upon trying to contact them I see that they do not have an email address, and contact has to be by phone or by letter.

It is also not unusual to see adverts for products where cheques are still requested for payment.

Some videos are also still introduced by Cardiganed gentlemen wearing glasses Denis Taylor would be proud to own.

The young today do not know what a cheque book is, and are certainly not going to get out the Basildon Bond to write in anywhere.

Everything is on computers, ipads or mobile devices. If I ask my children anything they invariably tap their mobiles and find the answer, or book a restaurant, or a cinema ticket to collect when they arrive

When there are thousands of railway videos freely available on YouTube, why would "young people" pay for videos?

Same goes with magazines, to a lesser extent - they are catering to an older audience because those younger will get their information from places like this.

I actually think that in an Instagram age, where people take interest in the minutia of their lives (taking pictures of every meal/ piece of graffito/ cat etc) that enthusiasm in something as "everyday" as railways will become more socially acceptable.

That said, I can't remember the number of any train I've been on in a long time; I really don't take any interest in things like numbers nowadays.

 

[30909]

Societal and industry changes have had a significant effect on the hobby. For instance, tomorrow I will be attending an unofficial School reunion where four of seven members of the Holmesdale School ” Train Trotters” Club - see photo - will meet (we are in contact with the other three)
So enlightened was our Headmaster in the 1950s he encouraged the ten years old lads to pursue their hobby and even arranged a visit to Purley signal box where, for the benefit of the internal, weekly, children produced radio programme, we recorded sounds and interviews with signallers and pupils – see Ferrograph Tape Recorder microphone in the hand of back row second left – additionaly we would independently travel, as a group to, from, places such as Woking, Tonbridge and most of the London Termi.
What did we have, a huge variety of locomotives some over 70 years old others only months, rolling-stock that predated the First World War to brand new Mk1s and first generation diesels. All this was enough to satisfy the Ian Allen ABC clutching child along with the parental expectation that you would behave, be safety conscious and the Railway and its staff would be responsible to their passengers and unaccompanied children especially.I think it’s fair to say none of the above would/could be applied to society and the industry today.

 

[Goatboy]

There seems to be a common belief that railway enthusiasts are only ever found on platform ends with a notebook, and this thread does nothing to dispel that.

Completely agree. I am an enthusiast - hence posting here - and you will never find me on a platform unless I am travelling and waiting for a train. I couldn't care less which loco number is working a train I'm using or looking at, I don't record anything. I suspect many other people who are interested in railways and railway operations are the same.