Does the UK really intend to implement it's own electronic authorization system?

175mph

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Wrong.
The journey must be different from today - the UK is also establishing it's version of the ETIAS which will screen both visitors and workers from the EU and will require them to have full passports (rather than ID cards) and that electronic visa before entry. The reason for that is to prevent undesirables and those wishing to work illegally (ie without permit) from entering in the first place.
That was what you voted for - control of borders, right?
Today, of course, EU's simply require ID card and no screening to enter the UK.
However, anyone from the EU wishing to circumvent all that after 1st January and enter the UK without electronic visa/passport (indeed they may only have an ID card) can legally enter the Republic with just that ID card, they don't have to give a purpose for that visit, nor do they have to disclose anything (health/criminal record etc) and then once in the Republic, can catch the bus or train directly into the UK with no further screening.
At which point they become "invisible" as we simply don't know they are here.
The bit from the quote I've highlighted in bold has me a bit confused as I've tried a Google search regarding this and unless I'm missing something, I can't find any reports anywhere that the UK has any plans to implement an electronic authorization system people who would normally be able to travel to the UK visa free would have to use to apply for authorization before traveling to our country.

Are there really any such plans forthcoming for our country to implement such a system or will we end up being the only developed country not to require travelers to apply for electronic authorization to travel to? Although obviously unrelated to Europe, I've read that New Zealand has recently implemented such a system.
 
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Howardh

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The bit from the quote I've highlighted in bold has me a bit confused as I've tried a Google search regarding this and unless I'm missing something, I can't find any reports anywhere that the UK has any plans to implement an electronic authorization system
Well, Priti Patel seems to think so, and she's the home secretary; https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...visitors-have-apply-new-us-style-visas-enter/
Visitors to the UK from the European Union and the Commonewealth will have to comply with a US-style electronic visa system after Brexit, under plans set out on Monday by Home Secretary Priti Patel.
The plans for a new Electronic Travel Authorisation system (ETA) will make it easier for border guards to screen arrivals and block threats from entering the UK, the Tories say.
It is part of a five-point plan to secure the borders after Brexit and will be launched by Ms Patel and Boris Johnson at a border post.
Other measures include plans to count visitors in and out of the UK and to stop migrants using EU identity cards instead of the more secure passports.
The last sentence is interesting, how will we count those going across the UK/EU border in Ireland?
 

Doppelganger

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If it's anything like the US system you apply once and it's valid for 5 years anyway.

This is a very minor inconvenience in the great scheme of things.
To say very minor, but are you speaking for all Brexiteers here?

I think the proof will be in the pudding.

I think a lot of Brexiteers are deluding themselves as things will be very different and a lot of them might be feeling a bit like Colin.
 

Bletchleyite

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To say very minor, but are you speaking for all Brexiteers here?
I am not a Brexiteer, I actually voted Remain, I just can't be doing with the hysteria that my fellow Remainers are coming up with on every slightest thing, rather than waiting for the big, significant ones like the potential major economic damage as companies withdraw their business.
 

Bantamzen

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If it's anything like the US system you apply once and it's valid for 5 years anyway.

This is a very minor inconvenience in the great scheme of things.
The US ESTAs are for a maximum of two years, or whenever the passport expires, whichever is sooner. I believe however that the EU programme starting next year will cover 3 years maximum.
 

Bletchleyite

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The US ESTAs are for a maximum of two years, or whenever the passport expires, whichever is sooner. I believe however that the EU programme starting next year will cover 3 years maximum.
Sorry, I stand corrected, thought it was 5. Even at 2 or 3 years it's still noise-level compared with the other elements and costs of arranging a trip.

There are many significant disadvantages of Brexit but this doesn't even really register as one in my book.

It may be an issue for some people with certain serious criminal records (they're hardly going to block someone who nicked a bar of chocolate from WH Smiths when they were 14) who can no longer travel, but perhaps they might have thought of that before they decided to commit the crime they committed, so I'm unable to really sympathise with that.
 

Bantamzen

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Sorry, I stand corrected, thought it was 5. Even at 2 or 3 years it's still noise-level compared with the other elements and costs of arranging a trip.

There are many significant disadvantages of Brexit but this doesn't even really register as one in my book.

It may be an issue for some people with certain serious criminal records (they're hardly going to block someone who nicked a bar of chocolate from WH Smiths when they were 14) who can no longer travel, but perhaps they might have thought of that before they decided to commit the crime they committed, so I'm unable to really sympathise with that.
I only knew the US one was 2 years because I remember applying for them a few years ago (though I have just double checked on the ETSA site ;)).

But as far as the new EU one goes, I agree that being for 3 years max it won't be too much of an issue for most, just another thing to remember when booking trips, along with insurance, in-flight meals, and of course the lounge!! :D However you can almost guarantee that some folk will forget / ignore the requirement, and there will doubtless be arguments at many a check-in counter from next year!
 

talltim

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It will be a minor thing for most, but there seem to be lots of these minor things that could have been so easily avoided...
 

Elwyn

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Well, Priti Patel seems to think so, and she's the home secretary; https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...visitors-have-apply-new-us-style-visas-enter/


The last sentence is interesting, how will we count those going across the UK/EU border in Ireland?

They won’t be counted, nor will anyone who arrives or departs via the Channel Islands. So the data will always be flawed. Counting them in and counting them out is the sort of slogan that politicians like but is fairly meaningless. There are numerous other permutations, for example dual nationals who enter on one passport or travel document and leave on another. All of these skew the information on where people are. There used to be a departures passport control in the UK and one of the reasons it was dispensed with around the late 1980s is that it didn’t really provide meaningful accurate information on who was still in the country.
 

Meerkat

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The last sentence is interesting, how will we count those going across the UK/EU border in Ireland?
Cynically i might suggest they will count them in/out as they cross the Irish Sea - they aren’t going to reveal such plans up front but drip them out over time.
Otherwise, as it’s CTA do those going to RoI really matter? We can exchange data with the Irish so we know if the people have left the CTA.
 

PeterC

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Well, Priti Patel seems to think so, and she's the home secretary; https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politic...visitors-have-apply-new-us-style-visas-enter/


The last sentence is interesting, how will we count those going across the UK/EU border in Ireland?
Politicians seem to think that the island of Britain constitutes the whole of the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland is "out of sight - out of mind" unless Unionist votes are needed or the IRA are blowing something up.
 

Howardh

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Politicians seem to think that the island of Britain constitutes the whole of the United Kingdom. Northern Ireland is "out of sight - out of mind" unless Unionist votes are needed or the IRA are blowing something up.
Gibraltar too. Heard very little too from our politicians regarding this outpost which is more British than Britain, what will we (the UK government) do if the Spanish close the border again? Something that would have been illegal while we were in the EU.

And Anguilla, one of our Caribbean islands that heavily depends on the neighbouring St. Maarten - a Dutch/French split larger island - for food, medical supplies, transport (pax use the airport on St. Maarten then cross by ferry to Anguilla) and so on? No issues while we were part of the EU, but now ? ? ?
 

najaB

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The last sentence is interesting, how will we count those going across the UK/EU border in Ireland?
We've been repeatedly told that there will be no border - either in the Irish Sea or at the NI/Republic border. So it'll be interesting...
 

Howardh

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We've been repeatedly told that there will be no border - either in the Irish Sea or at the NI/Republic border. So it'll be interesting...
The EU will be very interested if Chinese and American goods and foods enter the UK under any deals we can get and then find their way across the border into the EU - without EU tariffs, checks, standards....

Basically there is gonna have to be a hard border (by default Boris is telling porkies - again) and that could well ignite the troubles. Either way, if the border's the Irish Sea will Unionists accept checks and restrictions between the UK and the UK? Or if the border's across Ireland...the IRA??

We'll find out later...now we'll just take a short break.
 

najaB

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The EU will be very interested if Chinese and American goods and foods enter the UK under any deals we can get and then find their way across the border into the EU - without EU tariffs, checks, standards...
I'm just telling you what HMG has told me. Surely you're not implying that they're being less than truthful?
 

Howardh

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I'm just telling you what HMG has told me. Surely you're not implying that they're being less than truthful?
If every politician grew their nose 1" Pinnochio-style, there's be no need to build a bridge between NI and Scotland.
 

Meerkat

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Gibraltar too. Heard very little too from our politicians regarding this outpost which is more British than Britain
Have you been to Gibraltar? There may be red phone boxes and road markings/signs but it really isn’t very British at all! They even drive on the wrong side of the road!
 

Howardh

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Have you been to Gibraltar? There may be red phone boxes and road markings/signs but it really isn’t very British at all! They even drive on the wrong side of the road!
Of course I have, clearly you haven't as if you had you would clearly see how British they are, from schools to their NHS, the laws and police are British, the currency is the pound and it's home in the sun. But don't take my word for it, just look at the last referendum there on whether they want to remain British or join/share sovereignty with Spain. Was it over 98% to stay British?
 

Meerkat

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Of course I have, clearly you haven't as if you had you would clearly see how British they are, from schools to their NHS, the laws and police are British, the currency is the pound and it's home in the sun. But don't take my word for it, just look at the last referendum there on whether they want to remain British or join/share sovereignty with Spain. Was it over 98% to stay British?
I have been there and was very surprised how un British it was. The people generally didn’t look, sound, or act very British (and that is not in any way a criticism)
I think the poll said more about the alternative!
 

najaB

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Of course I have, clearly you haven't as if you had you would clearly see how British they are...
I have been there and was very surprised how un British it was. The people generally didn’t look, sound, or act very British
I don't even know what it means to "sound" British, never mind to "look" British seeing as how diverse a country this is.
 

Meerkat

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I don't even know what it means to "sound" British, never mind to "look" British seeing as how diverse a country this is.
There wasn’t a lot of English being spoken, and you know exactly what looking British means - diversity is around the edges, the averages are still markedly different.
 

Howardh

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There wasn’t a lot of English being spoken, and you know exactly what looking British means - diversity is around the edges, the averages are still markedly different.
No, I don't know exactly what looking British means, please educate me. And if you didn't hear a lot of "english" being spoken, may I point out that Gibraltar imports a lot of Spanish workers commuting daily who will naturally speak Spanish; you will find that most Gibraltarians living there are bi-lingual (as are plenty of Welsh in the UK) so naturally there will be a mixture of english/spanish being spoken, as with North Wales where you will find a mixture of welsh/english being spoken.
 

Meerkat

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No, I don't know exactly what looking British means, please educate me. And if you didn't hear a lot of "english" being spoken, may I point out that Gibraltar imports a lot of Spanish workers commuting daily who will naturally speak Spanish; you will find that most Gibraltarians living there are bi-lingual (as are plenty of Welsh in the UK) so naturally there will be a mixture of english/spanish being spoken, as with North Wales where you will find a mixture of welsh/english being spoken.
i give up, we are wandering off topic and you are clearly trying to push me so you can accuse me of racism. The people in Gibraltar did not look the same as an average British town - even the diversity was different (ie a British town would have more black and Asian people than Gibraltar did)
I am not disputing Gib’s right to be British, and I hope they stay British but it isn’t anything like Grimsby on the Med!
 

Howardh

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i give up, we are wandering off topic and you are clearly trying to push me so you can accuse me of racism. The people in Gibraltar did not look the same as an average British town - even the diversity was different (ie a British town would have more black and Asian people than Gibraltar did)
I am not disputing Gib’s right to be British, and I hope they stay British but it isn’t anything like Grimsby on the Med!
We??
You started it by saying Gibraltarians "didn't look, sound or act British" which is news to me as I've no idea what an average "Brit" look, sounds or acts like.
Am I an average Brit? What if I'm not?? And then you say you hope they remain British even though they don't "look, sound and act" like us.
Blimey....

Anyhow, back on-topic and I note the Guardian reports Verhofstadt and Khan are in discussions about UK citizens having "associate membership" of the EU if they wish, which anyone taking up that offer would be entitled to ETIAS/Visa-free travel (at least) meaning we join the EU lanes @ Schengen airports + unlimited leave to stay in any EU country of our choice.

Don't think we could have the freedom to work as we do now though, EU states won't allow an one-way movement.
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ges-eu-to-offer-britons-associate-citizenship

The mayor of London, Sadiq Khan, will use a trip to Brussels to implore EU negotiators to be open to continued free movement for Britons through “associate citizenship”.

With the backing of the former prime minister of Belgium Guy Verhofstadt, Khan said the offer of such rights to those who wish to retain them should be at “the heart” of the coming negotiations over the future relationship.
 
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Meerkat

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Anyhow, back on-topic and I note the Guardian reports Verhofstadt and Khan are in discussions about UK citizens having "associate membership" of the EU if they wish
Two powerless (in this context) blokes blowing hot air on expenses! The EU aren’t going to give that away. How would it work , it would have to be some kind of visa in our passports anyway??

more importantly- what on Earth is going on in that photo at the top!!
 

sprunt

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But don't take my word for it, just look at the last referendum there on whether they want to remain British or join/share sovereignty with Spain. Was it over 98% to stay British?
98.97%. Be interesting to see what would happen in a re-run in a couple of years - I'm sure the result would be the same, but it wouldn't be anything like such a landslide I reckon given that the UK government has more or less abandoned them.
 

Meerkat

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98.97%. Be interesting to see what would happen in a re-run in a couple of years - I'm sure the result would be the same, but it wouldn't be anything like such a landslide I reckon given that the UK government has more or less abandoned them.
I suspect that they still prefer their special status to being just another part of Spain (would Spain let them continue with their ethically dubious tax status and ensuing reliance on big gambling companies?)
 

geoffk

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I am not a Brexiteer, I actually voted Remain, I just can't be doing with the hysteria that my fellow Remainers are coming up with on every slightest thing, rather than waiting for the big, significant ones like the potential major economic damage as companies withdraw their business.
If you take your car to mainland Europe, you are likely to need an International Driving Permit and a green card with your insurance. Even if you hire a car, you will still need an IDP. For many this will be more than a minor inconvenience. Add to that taking your dog on holiday when the pet passport is no longer valid and the loss of the EHIC card, meaning more expensive travel insurance. These "slight things" add up and of course dealing with all the paperwork, especially if there is a large workload caused by drivers applying all at once, means you cannot just head for the ferry at a moment's notice. Of course we did all these things before joining the EU but far fewer of us travelled then.
 

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