Does the UK really intend to implement it's own electronic authorization system?

[Howardh]

One thing that would be particularly good would be for airlines (and Eurostar) to be able to connect it into their booking system, and for the booking system not to allow "check in" unless it flags green. That would ensure both everyone was aware of it and nobody was surprised by it.

That would make sense; maybe an issue for someone booking for several people (maybe a business trip?) but even so there should be no problem flagging one up.

One problem I can see is this; UK won't need ETIAS to visit Gibraltar (just our passport) but if a flight is diverted to Malaga in Spain due to bad weather in Gibraltar (which is often!) they then have to get the coach to Gibraltar, which could mean some - if not all - pax won't have the authorisation to leave the airport (ie no ETIAS) and continue their journey. Again this can be overcome by an immediate 24-hour "pass" or something given by immigration, however the problem will be there until someone finds a solution before it happens!

 

[Meerkat]

Although lots of Brexit supporters appear to be genuinely surprised that leaving the EU in fact means more restrictions / beauracracy placed on UK citizens. Suspect Summer 2021 will see lots of annual Spain-bound holiday makers getting turned away at Airports...

That does rather sound like a Remainer hoping Leavers get punished....
I would imagine all operators and airlines are going to make huge efforts during booking (plus reminders by email/text) to make sure there aren’t lots of problems - it may not be their fault but they will have deal with the angry/upset people at the airport.

One problem I can see is this; UK won't need ETIAS to visit Gibraltar (just our passport) but if a flight is diverted to Malaga in Spain due to bad weather in Gibraltar (which is often!) they then have to get the coach to Gibraltar, which could mean some - if not all - pax won't have the authorisation to leave the airport (ie no ETIAS) and continue their journey. Again this can be overcome by an immediate 24-hour "pass" or something given by immigration, however the problem will be there until someone finds a solution before it happens!

I got diverted on the way home from Gib (you couldn’t see across the runway!) - trekking through the border post like refugees with our baggage and airline supplied plastic bags of food/drink to the coaches parked on the Spanish side.
It could be a big issue if the Spanish don’t want to be helpful - walking across the border and being dumped at departures means you would need some sort of paperwork.

 

[Howardh]

I'd like to know how it works technically - once "approved" do you print out an e-mail and take it with you, or is it somehow automatically connected to your passport chip? On a couple of occasions when my passport has been swiped the card's failed to read the chip - but after a little look I've been sent on my way. Dunno why this happens - sometime's it's read, sometimes it isn't (faulty chip?) but if it needs to read that I've got the ETIAS and fails to do so - then what? At best it's embarrassing holding everyone else up, but at worst could I be denied entry (or re-entry to the UK)? And the passport's less than three years old and I don't want the cost (or time) or replacing it so early either!!

 

[Howardh]

T
I got diverted on the way home from Gib (you couldn’t see across the runway!) - trekking through the border post like refugees with our baggage and airline supplied plastic bags of food/drink to the coaches parked on the Spanish side.
It could be a big issue if the Spanish don’t want to be helpful - walking across the border and being dumped at departures means you would need some sort of paperwork.

Ha! That's the prize for using one of the world's "most dangerous" airports!! (Try that in youtube).
AFAIK it's the only international airport with a road going across, there's one in NZ with a railway going across but that appears to be disused, and the only other similar situation (though hardly "international!" is Barra where FlyBe land on the beach. Deliberately.
That is a must-do, as is the world's shortest scheduled flight nearby.

 

[Bantamzen]

I'd like to know how it works technically - once "approved" do you print out an e-mail and take it with you, or is it somehow automatically connected to your passport chip? On a couple of occasions when my passport has been swiped the card's failed to read the chip - but after a little look I've been sent on my way. Dunno why this happens - sometime's it's read, sometimes it isn't (faulty chip?) but if it needs to read that I've got the ETIAS and fails to do so - then what? At best it's embarrassing holding everyone else up, but at worst could I be denied entry (or re-entry to the UK)? And the passport's less than three years old and I don't want the cost (or time) or replacing it so early either!!

The approval will primarily be on the ETIAS database linked to the passport, which the EU border control scanners will be linked to, and potentially airline check-in / gate scanners will have access to. The only important caveat is that on first arrival on a new ETIAS, you must arrive at the country as stated on the application, and potentially have fingerprint scans / photos as with the US ETSA. After that the waiver is good for any country for it's lifespan.

 

[Howardh]

The approval will primarily be on the ETIAS database linked to the passport, which the EU border control scanners will be linked to, and potentially airline check-in / gate scanners will have access to. The only important caveat is that on first arrival on a new ETIAS, you must arrive at the country as stated on the application, and potentially have fingerprint scans / photos as with the US ETSA. After that the waiver is good for any country for it's lifespan.

So if you obtain an ETIAS, and before that three years is up you obtain a new passport, you then have to re-apply for the ETIAS to link it to your new passport (number)? To me it would seem better if the ETIAS lasted the length of your passport so there's no confusion or extra bureaucracy.

 

[Bantamzen]

So if you obtain an ETIAS, and before that three years is up you obtain a new passport, you then have to re-apply for the ETIAS to link it to your new passport (number)? To me it would seem better if the ETIAS lasted the length of your passport so there's no confusion or extra bureaucracy.

The ETIAS will only be valid for the lifespan of your passport. So if you have say two years left, when you are successful for the ETIAS this will also be valid for only two years, less I believe 3 months as you will need at least this much left in order to enter the EU on one. On receipt of your new passport you would then re-apply for a new 3 year ETIAS.

 

[sprunt]

Is there no kind of standard international protocol for when flights need to be diverted to a country other than the intended destination? It must happen reasonably frequently that this results in people being delivered to countries that they don't have the required paperwork to enter.

 

[najaB]

Is there no kind of standard international protocol for when flights need to be diverted to a country other than the intended destination? It must happen reasonably frequently that this results in people being delivered to countries that they don't have the required paperwork to enter.

Unfortunately, no. While generally speaking, countries will be reasonable and allow the passengers to at the very least be taken to a hotel 'under guard' until the airline can sort things out, there have been more than a handful of instances of passengers not even being allowed to disembark. Generally this is where the countries concerned have no diplomatic relationship at all.

I can't find it at the moment but ISTR that it happened last year in Iran.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Unfortunately, no. While generally speaking, countries will be reasonable and allow the passengers to at the very least be taken to a hotel 'under guard' until the airline can sort things out, there have been more than a handful of instances of passengers not even being allowed to disembark. Generally this is where the countries concerned have no diplomatic relationship at all.

I can't find it at the moment but ISTR that it happened last year in Iran.

It's easier in countries/airports which allow visa-free airside transit like the UK, i.e. where you don't enter the UK by virtue of being in the terminal, though it can mean if you are ineligible to enter you have to kip on a bench in the terminal. Countries vary on this.

 

[Howardh]

It's easier in countries/airports which allow visa-free airside transit like the UK, i.e. where you don't enter the UK by virtue of being in the terminal, though it can mean if you are ineligible to enter you have to kip on a bench in the terminal. Countries vary on this.

I have it in the back of my mind that flights bound for the US that are diverted to Canada (or vice-versa?) the pax can't leave the unintended airport as they wouldn't have the correct Visa (so, therefore, can't utilise a local hotel whilst waiting for an alternative flight).
If so - or there are issues elsewhere - shouldn't major airports have at least sleeping pods airside for these instances? Of course that may means reducing their valuable retail opportunities space....

 

[Bletchleyite]

I have it in the back of my mind that flights bound for the US that are diverted to Canada (or vice-versa?) the pax can't leave the unintended airport as they wouldn't have the correct Visa (so, therefore, can't utilise a local hotel whilst waiting for an alternative flight).
If so - or there are issues elsewhere - shouldn't major airports have at least sleeping pods airside for these instances? Of course that may means reducing their valuable retail opportunities space....

Some airports with airside transit do have hotels airside. Schiphol does, and I half recall one of the Gatwick terminals does too.

 

[dosxuk]

One problem I can see is this; UK won't need ETIAS to visit Gibraltar (just our passport) but if a flight is diverted to Malaga in Spain due to bad weather in Gibraltar (which is often!) they then have to get the coach to Gibraltar, which could mean some - if not all - pax won't have the authorisation to leave the airport (ie no ETIAS) and continue their journey. Again this can be overcome by an immediate 24-hour "pass" or something given by immigration, however the problem will be there until someone finds a solution before it happens!

Well part one of the problem is that it took the EU mediating for Spain to allow UK-GIB flights to enter Spanish airspace or use Spanish airports as a diversionary destination. Faro across the border in Portugal used to be the main diversion destination rather than Malaga. There have already been mutterings on airline forums about the Spanish getting difficult with Gibraltar flights and delaying giving clearance to enter their airspace until the last possible moment.

It's easier in countries/airports which allow visa-free airside transit like the UK, i.e. where you don't enter the UK by virtue of being in the terminal, though it can mean if you are ineligible to enter you have to kip on a bench in the terminal. Countries vary on this.

Reminder - the UK doesn't allow blanket visa-free transit - there are many nations who have to apply for a transit visa to be allowed to board a flight to the UK at all, even if they're leaving again a couple of hours later (there are exceptions to those rules, primarily based on being granted entry to a limited number of other countries). This PDF contains a list of the countries which have restrictions on transiting the UK - https://assets.publishing.service.g...ile/818794/UK_Visa_requirements_July_2019.pdf - including countries such as China, India, South Africa and Turkey.

I have it in the back of my mind that flights bound for the US that are diverted to Canada (or vice-versa?) the pax can't leave the unintended airport as they wouldn't have the correct Visa (so, therefore, can't utilise a local hotel whilst waiting for an alternative flight).
If so - or there are issues elsewhere - shouldn't major airports have at least sleeping pods airside for these instances? Of course that may means reducing their valuable retail opportunities space....

Many of the diversionary airports for UK-US flights are tiny little places in the middle of nowhere. There are often complaints from passengers that they aren't allowed off a diverted aircraft in these places, which isn't due to a lack of hotel space airside, but because of a complete lack of hotel space at all. The terminals aren't designed for 300+ people, so despite what the complainers say, they are actually better off staying on the aircraft. Flights across Russia and China have similar issues with diversions going into remote locations.

 

[hooverboy]

Whilst health insurance won't be a primary reason for putting off a trip to the US, it is nonetheless very much more expensive than currently found for EU trips. Once EHIC is lost, insurance costs will rise for UK visitors to the EU. Again it won't likely be the deal breaker, but it will be another cost to add to the waiver.



I've no idea where this 72 hour wait idea has come from, it is expected to take about 20 mins on average to apply for a ETIAS, about the same time it takes to apply for a US ETSA.

https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-requirements



Only if the ETIAS database returns an issue will the country of entry require up to an additional 96 hours to request additional information / documents from the applicant.

travel insurance isn't a problem if you have a fee paying bank account.it is one of the perks of such a scheme.
so no reason to put off a trip to the EU, or the US for that matter.

EHIC is not exactly all it's cracked up to be either.
for a lot of countries you will still pay straight away for a consultation/treatment should you need it,and then claim back later.

 

[najaB]

travel insurance isn't a problem if you have a fee paying bank account.it is one of the perks of such a scheme.

Assuming that your medical history doesn't mean that you're excluded, of course.

 

[hooverboy]

Traveling to the US on an ESTA is exactly like this. If the airline systems don't have a "ok" from the US border systems you won't be able to check in. This mostly manifests by being told to check in at the airport, where your documents can be manually examined.

.

I think what the poster means is the booking is not made unless prior authorisation is approved.
having to go through the rigmorol of making the booking and then only being told at departures you can't go is a bit of a ball-ache I would think.

saying that, the ESTA/ETA process itself is very straightforward and generally very quick.
I got mine(unofficial approval) straight away,with the formal letter 24 hours later, and my canadian one was even quicker at about 20 minutes for all legalities to be done.

 

[hooverboy]

Assuming that your medical history doesn't mean that you're excluded, of course.

for most policies it's quite clear that most pre existing medicai conditions are covered for a+e if declared, whats not covered is follow on prescriptions of pharmaceuticals you are taking, these need to be got from your own GP prior to a vacation,and covering note supplied should customs want to know what you have and why.

 

[Lisa Evans]

That would make sense; maybe an issue for someone booking for several people (maybe a business trip?) but even so there should be no problem flagging one up.

One problem I can see is this; UK won't need ETIAS to visit Gibraltar (just our passport) but if a flight is diverted to Malaga in Spain due to bad weather in Gibraltar (which is often!) they then have to get the coach to Gibraltar, which could mean some - if not all - pax won't have the authorisation to leave the airport (ie no ETIAS) and continue their journey. Again this can be overcome by an immediate 24-hour "pass" or something given by immigration, however the problem will be there until someone finds a solution before it happens!

Hi there, I've found an article in the ETIAS blog about this matter: What will European travel be like for Brits from January 1st, 2021? https://www.etiasvisa.com/etias-new...UOFlwL1aqwvWFAO1wbwhsbCjZGOI8-5whIKpMC6wO5xys
About Gibraltar... we never know ;(
Ever since the Rock was brought under British rule, London and Madrid have endured centuries of tension over the status of Gibraltar. And now the issue could take centre stage in the Brexit negotiations, and the UK could find itself in a disadvantaged position on the Gibraltar issue upon leaving the EU. This is due to the fact that, while both the UK and Spain have been members of the bloc, Brussels has been obliged to act as a neutral voice. But now, with UK and Gibraltar out of the EU, leading figures in the Euro Zone will now be forced to protec the interests of Spain in future agreements.
The European Council’s Article 50 guidelines already state that the EU cannot reach an agreement with the UK over Gibraltar without Madrid’s approval.
So, this may end with Gibraltar joining the Schengen Zone after the transition period and consequently, British citizens applying for ETIAS to get to gibraltar

 

[Meerkat]

I do feel the Gibraltar thing is hugely blown out of proportion.
It’s only 35,000 people, a small town’s worth. So if the Spanish totally blockaded and Gib required significant UKG support it wouldn’t be a huge amount in national terms - certainly not enough to consider changing our trade negotiation position.
And Spain also have a fair amount to lose. IIRC c. 9k Spanish work on the rock, from an area with an unemployment problem. And if they were silly it would risk our tabloids suggesting a boycott - there are plenty of other places to go on holiday.....

 

[Doppelganger]

I do feel the Gibraltar thing is hugely blown out of proportion.
It’s only 35,000 people, a small town’s worth. So if the Spanish totally blockaded and Gib required significant UKG support it wouldn’t be a huge amount in national terms - certainly not enough to consider changing our trade negotiation position.
And Spain also have a fair amount to lose. IIRC c. 9k Spanish work on the rock, from an area with an unemployment problem. And if they were silly it would risk our tabloids suggesting a boycott - there are plenty of other places to go on holiday.....

This attitude stinks. It's only this, it's only that...

There are also approx 1.2 millon Brits living in the EU and they have practically been abandoned by the British Government. Most countries that they have made their home are doing more for them than their own government.

These selfish attitudes have got us exactly to where we are and the Brits should be embarrassed by these turns in events, but plenty carry on trying to champion British superiority as if it will somehow dig them out of the whole that they have made themselves.

And yes, nevermind Brits going to Spain, more importantly there are plenty of other places to go on holiday for EU citizens. I can see those EU citizens choosing to go to places far more welcoming than the UK. With the diminished Pound, I don't think Brits are as sought after as you might think. Money isn't everything.

 

[Meerkat]

This attitude stinks. It's only this, it's only that...

My point was about relative importance in negotiating terms.
Errr... what do you want the UK government to do for the citizens abroad? We can’t give them the right to live and work there!
Also AIUI we have been nicer to the EU folk here than the EU countries are being to our citizens.
British tourists spend a lot of money, and its pretty concentrated in vulnerable areas

 

[Doppelganger]

Also AIUI we have been nicer to the EU folk here than the EU countries are being to our citizens.

Oh? Where did you read that, the Daily Express?

The whole settled status thing is a joke.

I know several EU countries such as the Netherlands, Slovenia and Poland who, especially in connection with permanent residency treat UK nationals like any other EU citizen to allow for such an application.

I have a lot of friends across the EU and they feel totally abandoned by the British Government, but fortunately find some solace from their adopted homes and their far friendlier way of dealing with the aftermath of Brexit

 

[najaB]

Also AIUI we have been nicer to the EU folk here than the EU countries are being to our citizens.

Really, that's interesting. Could you explain more please?

 

[yorksrob]

This attitude stinks. It's only this, it's only that...

There are also approx 1.2 millon Brits living in the EU and they have practically been abandoned by the British Government. Most countries that they have made their home are doing more for them than their own government.

These selfish attitudes have got us exactly to where we are and the Brits should be embarrassed by these turns in events, but plenty carry on trying to champion British superiority as if it will somehow dig them out of the whole that they have made themselves.

And yes, nevermind Brits going to Spain, more importantly there are plenty of other places to go on holiday for EU citizens. I can see those EU citizens choosing to go to places far more welcoming than the UK. With the diminished Pound, I don't think Brits are as sought after as you might think. Money isn't everything.

In terms of negotiations, we have a saying that 'it takes two to tango'. Both sides have a responsibility to act sensibly and not throw their toys out of the pram about issues such as Gibraltar.

 

[Doppelganger]

In terms of negotiations, we have a saying that 'it takes two to tango'. Both sides have a responsibility to act sensibly and not throw their toys out of the pram about issues such as Gibraltar.

And good job that the UK is being the adult in this. I mean, the UK demands, and the UK gets. That's how it works isn't it?

The UK's bargaining power has been vastly deminished on the world stage, so it will be interesting how things turn out.

In the long run, the UK might actually have more lenient entry criteria as they try to encourage visitors. Time will tell.

 

[nlogax]

Also AIUI we have been nicer to the EU folk here than the EU countries are being to our citizens.

You may want to qualify that with a credible source, ie neither the Mail nor the Express. AIUI EU countries have been nicer to UK folk than the UK is to EU citizens and almost every single piece of news I've read... BBC, Independent, NBC, The Guardian, The Local (France), Dispatches Europe...

Guy Verhofstadt did have a go at the EU-27 for not clarifying residency procedures for UK citizens, but that was in 2018. Since then most members seem to have gotten their houses in order.

 

[Senex]

The UK's bargaining power has been vastly deminished on the world stage, so it will be interesting how things turn out.

Haven't you forgotten that we've got two brand-new. massive, and very expensive aircraft-carriers (even if without any aircraft to fly from them)? This is the state that punches well above its weight on the world stage, isn't it?

 

[Meerkat]

You may want to qualify that with a credible source, ie neither the Mail nor the Express. AIUI EU countries have been nicer to UK folk than the UK is to EU citizens and almost every single piece of news I've read... BBC, Independent, NBC, The Guardian, The Local (France), Dispatches Europe...

Guy Verhofstadt did have a go at the EU-27 for not clarifying residency procedures for UK citizens, but that was in 2018. Since then most members seem to have gotten their houses in order.

“most members seem to have” is not the same as us allowing all EU citizens to stay

 

[plugwash]

One problem I can see is this; UK won't need ETIAS to visit Gibraltar (just our passport) but if a flight is diverted to Malaga in Spain due to bad weather in Gibraltar (which is often!) they then have to get the coach to Gibraltar, which could mean some - if not all - pax won't have the authorisation to leave the airport (ie no ETIAS) and continue their journey. Again this can be overcome by an immediate 24-hour "pass" or something given by immigration, however the problem will be there until someone finds a solution before it happens!

The schengen area already has procedures for issuing visas on arrival in similar circumstances, so I would be very surprised if there wasn't such an exception in the ETIAS rules too.

 

[plugwash]

You may want to qualify that with a credible source, ie neither the Mail nor the Express. AIUI EU countries have been nicer to UK folk than the UK is to EU citizens and almost every single piece of news I've read... BBC, Independent, NBC, The Guardian, The Local (France), Dispatches Europe...

AIUI The big issue regarding EU citizens in the UK is that the UK (unlike many other countries in the EU) has never had residence registration per-se. So they can't just automatically grant all EU citizens currently living in the UK the right to stay in the UK because there is no database of EU citizens living in the UK. They have to build a new registration system from scratch

And we all know what the UK governments level of competence in building new systems from scratch is like.......