Does York need a direct service to Blackpool North ?

[Halifaxlad]

Other discussions have got me thinking about the rather unreliable York to Blackpool North service, now Im wondering does York really need a direct service ?

Don't get me wrong I think its better to have direct services although when this goes wrong it upsets things upon the West side of Leeds where the majority of its journey is!

Now this is just an idea: perhaps to improve reliability it should start and terminate at Bradford ?

 

[dk1]

Other discussions have got me thinking about the rather unreliable York to Blackpool North service, now Im wondering does York really need a direct service ?

Don't get me wrong I think its better to have direct services although when this goes wrong it upsets things upon the West side of Leeds where the majority of its journey is!

Now this is just an idea: perhaps to improve reliability it should start and terminate at Bradford ?

But it's a popular service linking Leeds with Preston/Blackpool. Isn't it the semi-fast service from York that links up for operational convenience at Leeds City?

 

[IanXC]

There is a good question to be asked here.

I would argue that York does need a service to Bradford and that Leeds needs one to Preston/Blackpool.

So it would be perfectly logical to run a Leeds - Blackpool (which would isolate it from the Transpennine route, as giving performance benefits), however what you would then end up doing is linking (a presumably electric) York to Leeds service to the Leeds to Bradford Forster Square service, but would that linkage import more problem delays into the Transpennine route?

Its certainly an interesting one to weigh up.

 

[Halish Railway]

I'd say the main attribute is that Ii also gives Bradford a fairly fast service (four intermediate stops) to York, giving Bradford to Northeast England/Scotland passengers more choices whilst only having one change.

 

[Gaz55]

I would say that it is a popular and needed service. I just wish that longer trains were used, 3 car units don't really cut it, especially in the summer months.

 

[HST43257]

It’s lovely and useful for the mighty York City’s away days at Fylde and Halifax!

Plenty on last weekend as York turned it around in injury time (90+2, 90+6) for the 2-1 win, taking 2.2k fans (including plenty by rail) compared to Halifax’s home support of 1.7k!

However what didn’t help was that between Leeds and Bradford in both directions, we seemed to be sharing the trains with plenty of Doncaster fans heading to their away day at Bradford. At least they’ll have been spread between more trains

 

[Vespa]

Arriving at Blackpool North is easy enough, however accessing BPN platforms when leaving is problematic from what I understand the staff still restrict access, considering the state of Blackpool town, I can conclusively say York does not need direct rail access to BPN.

 

[A S Leib]

York is the fifth most common destination from Bradford Interchange, seventh from Burnley Manchester Road and tenth from Hebden Bridge; they're not massive flows in absolute terms but relatively large enough that I suspect cutting the service back to Leeds would be unpopular.

 

[HST43257]

Does York need a Bradford service? Does York need a Calder Valley Manchester service? No. Where else can we go that’ll service a completely different area? Burnley, Blackburn, Preston and Blackpool! And oh would you look at that - Leeds needs to serve all of those places!

 

[Kite159]

I guess when Leeds - York gets wired up, then the service could be split at Leeds with the section to York being run by an EMU on a semi-fast service with a good connection at Leeds for any "Cross Leeds" customers. Maybe as Ian suggested linking up the Bradford Forster Square - Leeds service to become a Bradford Forster Square - York service.

Which will probably be more popular than the current service from Blackpool formed of mostly a 3 coach 195.

 

[Halifaxlad]

York is the fifth most common destination from Bradford Interchange, seventh from Burnley Manchester Road and tenth from Hebden Bridge; they're not massive flows in absolute terms but relatively large enough that I suspect cutting the service back to Leeds would be unpopular.

Interesting


I wasn't thinking about cutting it back to Leeds but to Bradford if anything!

I have also thought about maintaining a direct connection from Bradford could run via Halifax and Wakefield Kirkgate although that would only realistically be possible post TRU.

 

[rishtonlad]

I use the service on a regular basis and there always seems to be people on there coming from Preston/Blackpool going to York, even through the majority get off in Leeds. The bigger issue is at times it either needs longer trains of a 2nd one per hour.

 

[A S Leib]

I use the service on a regular basis and there always seems to be people on there coming from Preston/Blackpool going to York, even through the majority get off in Leeds. The bigger issue is at times it either needs longer trains of a 2nd one per hour.

I'd guess that e.g. both Preston – Blackburn services being in the same quarter of an hour doesn't help with overcrowding, especially westbound where the York – Blackpool service runs first.

 

[HST43257]

I'd guess that e.g. both Preston – Blackburn services being in the same quarter of an hour doesn't help with overcrowding, especially westbound where the York – Blackpool service runs first.

Same applies for those with Northern Only passengers between York and Leeds and return, despite the other stopper running first in both directions

 

[Halish Railway]

Northern are currently procuring new trains, which are believed to be bi-mode, so maybe such new trains could work the existing York to Blackpool North service, making use of electrification between York and Leeds and Preston and Blackpool, with the displaced 195s working a supplementary service between Leeds and Preston. Although, any supplementary service may have to work as an extension of the Hull to Halifax service given that it departs Leeds in the opposite half-hour to the York to Preston service, enabling a path to be saved at Leeds and Bradford.

 

[Manutd1999]

It's not really about the end to end journeys. I think the Calder Valley needs a direct connection to York and Leeds need a connection to Preston, so the current arrangement works quite well. There could be an argument to cut it back to Preston if interacting with the WCML introduces substantial reliability issues, but I don't know if that's the case?

 

[Kite159]

It's not really about the end to end journeys. I think the Calder Valley needs a direct connection to York and Leeds need a connection to Preston, so the current arrangement works quite well. There could be an argument to cut it back to Preston if interacting with the WCML introduces substantial reliability issues, but I don't know if that's the case?

It doesn't really interact with the WCML as it crosses the main line on the flyover near Lostock Hall and comes onto the slow lines, if any service has more of an impact on the WCML it is those heading towards Chorley due to the flat junction at Leyland.

 

[YorksLad12]

Running it to York has the advantage of it not hogging a platform at Leeds.

 

[dk1]

Running it to York has the advantage of it not hogging a platform at Leeds.

My sentiments exactly. Apart from the excellent connectivity across the regions it covers, it makes total operational sense.

 

[LNW-GW Joint]

Running it to York has the advantage of it not hogging a platform at Leeds.

Isn't that exactly the situation at Preston too?

 

[xotGD]

Rather than cutting this service back I would suggest extending it to Scarborough. Thereby offering folk in Bradford, Halifax, etc. direct trains to the seaside without having to stray into Lancashire.

 

[A S Leib]

Thereby offering folk in Bradford, Halifax, etc. direct trains to the seaside without having to stray into Lancashire.

They have the Hull service; how long does it take to get from Paragon Interchange to the nearest beach?

 

[dk1]

Rather than cutting this service back I would suggest extending it to Scarborough. Thereby offering folk in Bradford, Halifax, etc. direct trains to the seaside without having to stray into Lancashire.

Wasn’t that a plan a few years ago?

 

[Horseman]

This train is always extremely busy. Whilst it may look like an oddball on paper, it's patronage if anything is worthy of additional capacity. Certainly enough to merit a half hourly service

 

[thejuggler]

I very much doubt many do the full run, but Leeds and Bradford/Calder Valley to East Lancs and WCML connection at Preston is convenient for many, as is Bradford to York direct.

Over the years I've worked at times in Bradford with colleagues who lived in York and Preston so the service was most welcome for them, without it they wouldn't have taken the jobs.

 

[A S Leib]

Wasn’t that a plan a few years ago?

Looking at maps on Project Mapping, Northern served York – Scarborough in ~2016, but I don't know whether that was actually the case or if those services went beyond York.

 

[30907]

Looking at maps on Project Mapping, Northern served York – Scarborough in ~2016, but I don't know whether that was actually the case or if those services went beyond York.

While I don't recall the dates, before the major expansion of TPE, Blackpool-Scarborough (IIRC 2-hourly) was definitely part of the mix.

 

[Accura]

Very popular service, giving a faster option to reach the key centres across east Lancashire. With the current issues around Sunday cancellations that Northern are experiencing, this service (anecdotally) seems to be the most reliable way of getting between Preston and Blackpool North on a Sunday as well. I'd certainly welcome enhancements.

 

[61653 HTAFC]

Rather than cutting this service back I would suggest extending it to Scarborough. Thereby offering folk in Bradford, Halifax, etc. direct trains to the seaside without having to stray into Lancashire.

The downside of that is the impact it has on capacity at York. Restricting the Blackpool service to a platform with access to Scarborough messes with things unnecessarily just so enthusiasts can have a "coast to coast" service they'll use twice a year.

Wasn’t that a plan a few years ago?

There was a plan for a Northern service between York and Scarborough, and many on here assumed it would be an extension of the Blackpool- partly because it operated in the past at a few different times, and because of the aforementioned "it looks cool on a map" thing. A standalone shuttle would make more sense though, as this could operate without any significant interactions with other services.

 

[xotGD]

so enthusiasts can have a "coast to coast" service they'll use twice a year.

I neither mentioned enthusiasts nor people travelling coast to coast. I specifically referred to the provision of direct services from Halifax and Bradford to Scarborough. I consider that this would be a beneficial service.