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Donald Trump and the aftermath of his presidency

mmh

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3,744
Fixed that for you.

See, "fixing" someone's words for them is never going to persuade someone to a different viewpoint, it's more likely to do the opposite.

Please delete your post. You don't know my opinion, let alone make it up, misquoting people is not clever. I don't believe in immediately running to moderators, but misquoting is against the forum rules. Please delete it in the next day, then I will delete this post, never mention it again, and we can all move back to being polite.
 
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najaB

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Please delete your post. You don't know my opinion, let alone make it up, misquoting people is not clever.
I think it is abundantly clear to anyone who reads the thread that @nlogax isn't misquoting you, but rather is expressing their opinion.
 

mmh

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No. I meant what I said.

You have misquoted me. I don't mind at all that you wanted to make your own point, that's what a discussion forum is all about.

Please just delete it, rewrite it as a reply if you want. Just remove the attribution to me of something I didn't say and let's move on.
 

EM2

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Found on Facebook:

Someone asked "Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?"

Nate White, a writer from England, wrote this magnificent response:

"A few things spring to mind.

Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem.

For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace - all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed.

So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing - not once, ever.

I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility - for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman.

But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is - his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers.

And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults - he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface.

Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront.

Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul.

And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist.

Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that.

He’s not even a spoiled rich boy, or a greedy fat cat.

He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.

And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully.

That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead.

There are unspoken rules to this stuff - the Queensberry rules of basic decency - and he breaks them all. He punches downwards - which a gentleman should, would, could never do - and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless - and he kicks them when they are down.

So the fact that a significant minority - perhaps a third - of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think 'Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:
* Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.
* You don't need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.

This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss.

After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of ****. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum.

God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid.

He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart.

In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws - he would make a Trump.

And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish:

'My God… what… have… I… created?

If being a **** was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set."
 

Modron

Member
Joined
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Messages
202
Found on Facebook:

Someone asked "Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?"

Nate White, a writer from England, wrote this magnificent response:

"A few things spring to mind.

Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem.

For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace - all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed.

So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing - not once, ever.

I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility - for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman.

But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is - his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers.

And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults - he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface.

Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront.

Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul.

And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist.

Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that.

He’s not even a spoiled rich boy, or a greedy fat cat.

He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.

And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully.

That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead.

There are unspoken rules to this stuff - the Queensberry rules of basic decency - and he breaks them all. He punches downwards - which a gentleman should, would, could never do - and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless - and he kicks them when they are down.

So the fact that a significant minority - perhaps a third - of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think 'Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:
* Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.
* You don't need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.

This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss.

After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of ****. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum.

God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid.

He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart.

In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws - he would make a Trump.

And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish:

'My God… what… have… I… created?

If being a **** was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set."

Yet the USA chose him over Hilary, that is democracy... I guess.
 

Cowley

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Found on Facebook:

Someone asked "Why do some British people not like Donald Trump?"

Nate White, a writer from England, wrote this magnificent response:

"A few things spring to mind.

Trump lacks certain qualities which the British traditionally esteem.

For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace - all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed.

So for us, the stark contrast does rather throw Trump’s limitations into embarrassingly sharp relief.

Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing - not once, ever.

I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility - for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman.

But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is - his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.

Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers.

And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults - he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness.

There is never any under-layer of irony, complexity, nuance or depth. It’s all surface.

Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront.

Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul.

And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist.

Trump is neither plucky, nor an underdog. He is the exact opposite of that.

He’s not even a spoiled rich boy, or a greedy fat cat.

He’s more a fat white slug. A Jabba the Hutt of privilege.

And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully.

That is, except when he is among bullies; then he suddenly transforms into a snivelling sidekick instead.

There are unspoken rules to this stuff - the Queensberry rules of basic decency - and he breaks them all. He punches downwards - which a gentleman should, would, could never do - and every blow he aims is below the belt. He particularly likes to kick the vulnerable or voiceless - and he kicks them when they are down.

So the fact that a significant minority - perhaps a third - of Americans look at what he does, listen to what he says, and then think 'Yeah, he seems like my kind of guy’ is a matter of some confusion and no little distress to British people, given that:
* Americans are supposed to be nicer than us, and mostly are.
* You don't need a particularly keen eye for detail to spot a few flaws in the man.

This last point is what especially confuses and dismays British people, and many other people too; his faults seem pretty bloody hard to miss.

After all, it’s impossible to read a single tweet, or hear him speak a sentence or two, without staring deep into the abyss. He turns being artless into an art form; he is a Picasso of pettiness; a Shakespeare of ****. His faults are fractal: even his flaws have flaws, and so on ad infinitum.

God knows there have always been stupid people in the world, and plenty of nasty people too. But rarely has stupidity been so nasty, or nastiness so stupid.

He makes Nixon look trustworthy and George W look smart.

In fact, if Frankenstein decided to make a monster assembled entirely from human flaws - he would make a Trump.

And a remorseful Doctor Frankenstein would clutch out big clumpfuls of hair and scream in anguish:

'My God… what… have… I… created?

If being a **** was a TV show, Trump would be the boxed set."
That's so well put.
 

Modron

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Messages
202
To use part of what Jonathan Pie said in a video about Trump:

'Not everyone that voted for Trump is a sexist or a racist. Some of them are. But most of them aren’t.

Most people didn’t vote for her, not because she’s a woman…they didn’t vote for her because she offered no palpable change whatsoever. Same old stuff. Trump represents a change. A terrifying change, but a change none the less. Hilary represented, well she represented very little actually because she protects corporate interests because she doesn’t call the police when questions from the debate are leaked to her in advance…I noticed we barely reported that. Not everyone that voted for Trump is a sexist or racist. How many times does the vote not have to go our way before we realise that our argument isn’t won by hurling labels and insults.

When will we learn that the key is discussion? If you are unwilling to discuss then you are creating conditions in which Donald Trump and people like him can thrive. But instead of persuading people to vote, Clinton just courted celebrity endorsements, and then lost…What’s going on? It’s almost as if the political acumen of Beyonce and Jay-Z count for nothing. And then she loses it and loses the election and she locks herself in her hotel because she’s too upset or because it never occurred to them to write a concession speech. Either way, Grow Up. I have no sympathy for her whatsoever. Be a better candidate.

But the thing is, I can’t say this to any of my friends. I’d get absolutely lynched if I said this because people like me won’t listen. I did this. This is my fault. Donald Trump!!!! The left is responsible for this result. Because the left has decided that any other opinion, any other way of looking at the world is unacceptable. We don’t debate anymore because the left won the cultural war…So if you’re on the right you are a freak. You’re evil, you’re racist, you’re stupid. You are a basket of deplorables.

How do you think people are going to vote if you talk like that to them? When has anyone ever been persuaded by being insulted or labelled. So now if you are on the right or even against the prevailing view you are attacked for raising your opinion. That’s why people wait until they are in the voting booth. No one’s watching anymore. There’s no blame, no shame or anything and you can finally say what you really think and that is a powerful thing.

The Tories in charge, Brexit and now Trump. And all the polls were wrong. All of them. Because when asked…people can’t admit what they think. They can’t admit what they think. They are not allowed to. The left don’t allow them to. We have made people unable to articulate their position for fear of being shut down. They’re embarrassed to say it. Every time someone on the left has said “You mustn’t say that.” They are contributing to this culture.

It’s time to stop moaning.

It’s time to stop crying over split Brexit.

It’s time to stop ignoring your opponents or worse trying to silence them. It time to stop banning people from speaking in universities. It’s time to stop reposting an article on your Facebook feed and think that it is political engagement. That banning a gymnast from doing what he’s good at because he insulted someone’s religion somehow achieves something. And sorry when did the Gymnast’s association starting thinking it was appropriate to start enforcing blasphemy laws? It’s time to realise that reading the Guardian doesn’t make you a Liberal. That retweeting Greenpace doesn’t lower you carbon footprint. And if my mansplaining is triggering you, you can either go to your safe space or you can engage and tell me what I’m getting wrong.

Because Trump just won the White House.

Being offended doesn’t work anymore.

Throwing insults doesn’t work anymore.

The only thing that works is actually bothering. Do something. And all you have to do is engage in the debate. Talk to people who think differently to you and persuade them of your argument. Its so easy and the left have lost the art. Stop thinking that everyone who disagrees with you is evil or racist, or sexist, or stupid, and talk to them. Persuade them otherwise, because if you don’t, I’ll tell you what you get, you get President Trump.'
 

Modron

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Enough STATES chose him, the people voted for Hilary, ergo the people of the USA chose her NOT him.

The popular vote might have gone Hilary's way, but there we are.

It'll happen again until people can actually debate sensibly without all the nonsense. As the text I quoted from the Jonathan Pie video states, the key is debate because otherwise we create the kind of environment that people like Donald Trump can thrive in.

Besides, we have his possible re-election to look forward to in 2020... that'll be nice, won't it?
 

mmh

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Enough STATES chose him, the people voted for Hilary, ergo the people of the USA chose her NOT him.

He won by their system. The constitution is sacrosanct in the US. You cannot argue against it or change it. Despite all the amendments, you can't, um, amend it.

He won.
 

Modron

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Whilst @EM2 posted an interesting critique of Donald Trump, it should be noted that he not only has some fans here but also a lot of people who could not care less about him.

To comment on some of these points:

'For instance, he has no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honour and no grace - all qualities, funnily enough, with which his predecessor Mr. Obama was generously blessed.'

Purely conjecture and a matter of opinion as to what one finds 'credible'. Obama was not without his critics, even within his own party. There are plenty of people who lack these 'gifts', and I am quite sure that this doesn't automatically make them bad people. My opinion of Obama was that he wasn't spectacular but he wasn't that bad a POTUS.

'Plus, we like a laugh. And while Trump may be laughable, he has never once said anything wry, witty or even faintly amusing - not once, ever.

I don’t say that rhetorically, I mean it quite literally: not once, not ever. And that fact is particularly disturbing to the British sensibility - for us, to lack humour is almost inhuman.

But with Trump, it’s a fact. He doesn’t even seem to understand what a joke is - his idea of a joke is a crass comment, an illiterate insult, a casual act of cruelty.'

Again, just opinion and not a fact. Different people find different things funny; it's what makes us diverse and different. Just because you don't think Trump is funny it doesn't mean that somebody else will think he's funny, the 'comedy snob' gag is itself old.

I would also like to point out that he is not alone in the realm of politics for being crass - there's plenty on the other side who have similar reprehensible views and if you're going to call out one bad egg, you need to call out all bad eggs.

I don't find Trump anything but...well...boring. I know what to expect, I know what people will say about him so I bother more with the things important to me. I cut the TV cable a long time ago,so thankfully I don't have to be bored by Huw Edwards or whoever telling me who Donald Trump insulted today.

Trump is a troll. And like all trolls, he is never funny and he never laughs; he only crows or jeers.

And scarily, he doesn’t just talk in crude, witless insults - he actually thinks in them. His mind is a simple bot-like algorithm of petty prejudices and knee-jerk nastiness
.

Just like those nutjobs on the other side who are similarly hateful to anybody who challenges their way of thinking. He's learnt from them - if you don't want to give somebody attention you don't answer back with death threats, doxxing or acting dumb you just block them or ignore them, that way you retain the power and they can't then beat you down to their level. If people stopped caring about Trump and turned the news off THAT would hurt him more.

Some Americans might see this as refreshingly upfront.

Well, we don’t. We see it as having no inner world, no soul.

And in Britain we traditionally side with David, not Goliath. All our heroes are plucky underdogs: Robin Hood, Dick Whittington, Oliver Twist.

First of all, that person does not speak for every British person. As stated, he has his backers here and also those who don't really care about him. Not every British person thinks with the same narrative that the author does - and also my 'heroes' (if I have any) are people who go out and work to provide for their families, the ones who work long hours and go the extra mile because they want to make a difference. I don't have heroes who are just story book characters, I'm atheist and I also have no faith in any politician of any party, therefore I judge my heroes on what they do positively for their families and communities and not what the cool guys or those in vogue say that I should like.

And worse, he is that most unforgivable of all things to the British: a bully.

Whilst I am not a fan of bullies, it depends upon your concept of a bully. Is a bully only a right-wing person or are there bullies on the extremes of the left? Why don't you call all bullies on all sides out then? People who physically, verbally and emotionally threatened families because they voted for Trump or for UKIP or Brexit are bullies as well and shame on them.

The TLDR for this is just because you don't agree with somebody, thou art not the moral arbiter and maybe you could be wrong. Also, one sheep does not speak for the whole herd. If you want Trump out, tackle him on the economy and spending/jobs not on his morals - he's a politician, in a position of power, therefore he is not meant to have any.
 

GatwickDepress

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A good point.

What we are seeing is that the extremists who were on the fringes of politics are now taking over and demanding adherence; In the USA you have Antifa and Social Justice Warriors on the left and Pro Trumpers and the alt-right/Pepe fans on the right.

Last weekend, there were clashes in a number of UK towns and cities between the Yellow Jacket movements and Hope Not Hate.

I just hope that people come back to the centre and we can sort matters out civilly without all the nastiness.
Ah a true 'enlightened centrist' in the wild... that you've used the snarl word 'SJW' shows it all really.
 

Modron

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Ah a true 'enlightened centrist' in the wild... that you've used the snarl word 'SJW' shows it all really.

I like neither the SJW's nor the violent and racist mob associated with the Far Right.

I want peace, you know...like we used to have years ago before everybody got offended about everything.
 

AndrewE

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He won by their system. The constitution is sacrosanct in the US. You cannot argue against it or change it. Despite all the amendments, you can't, um, amend it.

He won.
Except that they (especially in some marginal states) have been systematically excluding people from the electoral role for decades now... Guess which way the demographics suggest that the excluded people might have voted?
Hint: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-poli...da-amendment-4-felons-vote-disenfranchisement says
In 2016, the Sentencing Project estimated that 6.1 million people convicted of felonies can’t vote in the US, including many still in prison, on probation, or on parole, and some who have completed their sentences. Florida, with its harsh law, made up more than a quarter of that total — with 1.6 million people in the state barred from voting in 2016. In total, more than 10.4 percent of Florida’s voting-age population couldn’t vote due to a felony record
 

ComUtoR

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I want peace, you know...like we used to have years ago before everybody got offended about everything.

It wasn't peace. People were offended. What was it again ? Ahh yes, the good old days where you could use the N word and it was 'acceptable'
 

EM2

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I want peace, you know...like we used to have years ago before everybody got offended about everything.
Peace? Like at Cable Street you mean? Or when Mosley and the BUF organised mass rallies at Earl's Court? Or when there were race riots in Notting Hill? Or when the National Front and the British Movement were marching through town centres?
 
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EM2

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...he's a politician, in a position of power, therefore he is not meant to have any.
That's exactly when you're meant to have them.

As for what I posted, someone asked why the British (on the whole) don't like him. The answer therefore concentrates on him.
Feel free to construct a similar critique of any other politician that you care to mention.
 

najaB

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Trump is the establishment. How do you think he got to where he is today? Hard work? Good luck? Or establishment money?
Oh, he is the establishment but he ran his campaign on the idea that he wasn't - remember the chants of "Drain the swamp".
 

Bantamzen

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Oh, he is the establishment but he ran his campaign on the idea that he wasn't - remember the chants of "Drain the swamp".

This is what makes him so bad, he pretends to be anti-establishment when he is completely part of it. Just like that waste of oxygen Farage, he is in it for his own gains and wants everybody else to pay for it.
 

Esker-pades

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Politician keeps election pledge, and everyone is outraged.
Not when said pledge is achieved through legally dodgy means. This is the entire point of the separation of powers, and Trump is actively seeking to abuse his powers to circumvent the checks and balances of the others.

Plus, Democrats were elected to, amongst other things, block Trump from building his wall.
 

EM2

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Trump is the establishment. How do you think he got to where he is today? Hard work? Good luck? Or establishment money?
Loans from his Dad. The initial loan was $1m, but investigation by the New York Times revealed that it eventually totalled over $60m.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/02/tru...ather-was-more-like-60point7-million-nyt.html
During his first debate against Hillary Clinton in September 2016, then-presidential candidate Donald Trump repeated a claim he had often made before in defense of his image as a self-made billionaire.

"My father gave me a very small loan in 1975, and I built it into a company that's worth many, many billions of dollars," Trump claimed.

A sweeping new investigative report published by The New York Times on Tuesday, however, says that Trump's father, Fred Trump, had actually lent his son at least $60.7 million.

The Times reports that the amount would be worth $140 million in today's dollars and that much of it was never repaid.

According to the newspaper's findings: "As for that $1 million loan, Fred Trump actually lent him at least $60.7 million, or $140 million in today's dollars."

In the Times' piece, White House press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders reiterated Trump's oft-repeated claim that "The president's father gave him an initial $1 million loan, which he paid back."

Sanders added: "President Trump used this money to build an incredibly successful company as well as net worth of over $10 billion, including owning some of the world's greatest real estate."

As a presidential candidate, Trump had cited the $1 million figure on several occasions.

"My whole life really has been a 'no' and I fought through it," Trump said at a town hall event in October 2015. "It has not been easy for me, it has not been easy for me. And you know I started off in Brooklyn, my father gave me a small loan of a million dollars."

The Wall Street Journal had previously reported in September 2016 that Trump owed his father and his father's business about $14 million from numerous loans as early as 1985.

The lengthy investigation, which The New York Times says was more than a year in the making, accuses Trump of "instances of outright fraud" as he and his father manipulated the amounts of income they reported to the government.

Charles Harder, a lawyer for Trump, denied any allegations of tax violations in a statement, saying in the report, "The facts upon which The Times bases its allegations are extremely inaccurate."

The White House did not immediately respond to CNBC's request for comment on the Times' investigation.

To add, he also really isn't as rich as a) he could be and b) all his supposed hard work should have made him - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/donald-trump-discussion.140707/page-37#post-3105510
 
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Bantamzen

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Loans from his Dad. The initial loan was $1m, but investigation by the New York Times revealed that it eventually totalled over $60m.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/10/02/tru...ather-was-more-like-60point7-million-nyt.html


To add, he also really isn't as rich as a) he could be and b) all his supposed hard work should have made him - https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/donald-trump-discussion.140707/page-37#post-3105510

Trump has built an empire with other people's money, or more accurately Trump has had other people build his empire whilst he has thrown millions of dollars (some think as much as 900 million) down the drain. He even managed to bankrupt a casino, a business designed to make money for nothing.

If there is anyone left on this planet who thinks Trump is competent enough to be the leader of one of the world's top economies, as well as Commander in Chief of one of the largest nuclear equipped armies, then I fear for them and their sanity.
 

najaB

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The Trump campaign line is that Mexico will pay for it indirectly via the new trade deal, reduction in the trade deficit and other "improvements" in economic relations.
Of course, that isn't Mexico paying for the wall since the trade deal (which hasn't been ratified!) doesn't impose any new taxes or financial obligations on Mexico. Even if trade increases as a result of the deal (doubtful) the money would still be coming from US taxpayers.
 

Esker-pades

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Of course, that isn't Mexico paying for the wall since the trade deal (which hasn't been ratified!) doesn't impose any new taxes or financial obligations on Mexico. Even if trade increases as a result of the deal (doubtful) the money would still be coming from US taxpayers.
I agree with you completely. That campaign line is complete rubbish.
 

A Challenge

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I agree with you completely. That campaign line is complete rubbish.
Do you (or anyone, really) think less people would have voted for Trump if he'd said you'll have to pay ridiculous amount of money as a US taxpayer (and although there a lot of them, the wall is costing billions already)?
 

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