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Donald Trump and the aftermath of his presidency

Busaholic

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It's official - Trump is not stupid because he can both identify and name an elephant seen in a drawing, which not every three year old could do!
 
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DerekC

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I have been wondering for a while if he might pull out of the race a few days before the election. of the polls are very strongly against him. That way he would go out in a blaze of publicity and wouldn't actually have lost. I don't know what would happen then - would the VP candidate automatically go forward or does Biden get a walkover?
 

Typhoon

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It's official - Trump is not stupid because he can both identify and name an elephant seen in a drawing, which not every three year old could do!
Oh, come on, he can also repeat the words 'Person, Woman, Man, Camera, TV' - in the right order, a quarter of an hour after being told them.

(Actually most politicians can do that, it is why we get a string of vapid slogans at election time.)
 

ainsworth74

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I have been wondering for a while if he might pull out of the race a few days before the election. of the polls are very strongly against him. That way he would go out in a blaze of publicity and wouldn't actually have lost. I don't know what would happen then - would the VP candidate automatically go forward or does Biden get a walkover?

I think it's too late by that point! The ticket Trump/Pence will be on the ballots whether or not he's decided to withdraw. Obviously if the top of the ticket says "I'm withdrawing" then that would do substantial damage to voter turnout you'd have to say for him (but maybe also the Dems!). But in any event I think it would be too late to stop his name going ahead, after all, candidates who are literally dead have won elections before in the US.
 

Busaholic

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As we're (rightly) considering all the options, at what point is it absolutely definite that Trump's name appears on the ballot paper? I'd like to think, though I'm probably being deluded to do so, that enough Republican grandees come to their senses and act in concert to prevent Trump's name going forward. I know it's highly improbable, but is it already impossible, legally speaking? I'm talking about official Republican nominee, not Trump in a fit of pique standing as an independent, though that possibility would be an enticing one.
 

najaB

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As we're (rightly) considering all the options, at what point is it absolutely definite that Trump's name appears on the ballot paper? I'd like to think, though I'm probably being deluded to do so, that enough Republican grandees come to their senses and act in concert to prevent Trump's name going forward.
At the Republican National Convention he will (would) become the official candidate. That's why both he and Biden are referred to as the 'presumptive' candidate.
 

ainsworth74

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As we're (rightly) considering all the options, at what point is it absolutely definite that Trump's name appears on the ballot paper? I'd like to think, though I'm probably being deluded to do so, that enough Republican grandees come to their senses and act in concert to prevent Trump's name going forward. I know it's highly improbable, but is it already impossible, legally speaking? I'm talking about official Republican nominee, not Trump in a fit of pique standing as an independent, though that possibility would be an enticing one.

There were noises that if he didn't turn it around shortly before the Convention there might be a move to replace him as the candidate (particular considering the danger he might cause a blue wave from the Presidency on down). But I doubt it will amount to much as it seems the GOP are going to ride the Trump train allll the way down to hell but I have to say a bun fight at Republican Convention would be highly entertaining.
 

najaB

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As you probably know, Donald Trump's tax information has been leaked, and it's as bad as many expected:
Donald Trump reportedly paid hairdressers £55,000 for his TV appearances in just a year, according to a bombshell report on the president’s tax returns. The New York Times claims Trump put aside thousands for his famous mop, despite allegedly paying no federal income taxes in 10 of the 15 years before he became president. The president has long fought to keep his tax returns private, but they have emerged in the crucial weeks before the presidential election in November. Trump’s image as the self-made billionaire, who shot to fame as host of reality TV show The Apprentice, risks being unravelled by the report.

Read more: https://metro.co.uk/2020/09/28/dona...on-his-hair-in-one-year-13337520/?ito=cbshare

Highlights include:
  • He paid zero US federal income tax in at least 10 of the last 20 years
  • He paid $750 in US federal income tax in 2016 and 2017
  • He paid hundreds of thousands in tax to other countries
  • He (rather than his business) owes approximately $400M, most of which comes due during his potential second term
  • His claim that he is under audit is true(!) but only because he's being investigated for a $72M tax refund that may have been fraudulent
  • He spent over $70,000 on hairdressing during one year of The Apprentice
This rather puts paid to the idea that he's a rich, successful businessman given that his low/zero tax bill was due to claiming huge losses - the only significant income stream he had was The Apprentice, most of his other businesses were heavily loss-making. And the large personal debt is seriously concerning since it's not clear who he owes it to and what influence that gives them over him - he would be disqualified from getting even an intermediate-level security clearance with that level of indebtedness.
 

kermit

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The fact that this thread has been practically dormant for so long illustrates one of Trump's greatest achievements - whatever further revelations emerge about him seem unexceptional, to the point that we are largely indifferent. Some achievement. Sigh.
 

ainsworth74

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I thought one of the bigger highlights was that he's paying his daughter consultancy fees for projects that she's managing/working on as an employee of Trump's businesses! I mean that's one hell of a wheeze to use to reduce your tax liability!

The full article on the NYT website can be found here and is well worth read (but it's lengthy so you may want to go and get a cup of tea first!).

The Times obtained Donald Trump’s tax information extending over more than two decades, revealing struggling properties, vast write-offs, an audit battle and hundreds of millions in debt coming due.

Donald J. Trump paid $750 in federal income taxes the year he won the presidency. In his first year in the White House, he paid another $750.

He had paid no income taxes at all in 10 of the previous 15 years — largely because he reported losing much more money than he made.

As the president wages a re-election campaign that polls say he is in danger of losing, his finances are under stress, beset by losses and hundreds of millions of dollars in debt coming due that he has personally guaranteed. Also hanging over him is a decade-long audit battle with the Internal Revenue Service over the legitimacy of a $72.9 million tax refund that he claimed, and received, after declaring huge losses. An adverse ruling could cost him more than $100 million.

The tax returns that Mr. Trump has long fought to keep private tell a story fundamentally different from the one he has sold to the American public. His reports to the I.R.S. portray a businessman who takes in hundreds of millions of dollars a year yet racks up chronic losses that he aggressively employs to avoid paying taxes. Now, with his financial challenges mounting, the records show that he depends more and more on making money from businesses that put him in potential and often direct conflict of interest with his job as president.

The New York Times has obtained tax-return data extending over more than two decades for Mr. Trump and the hundreds of companies that make up his business organization, including detailed information from his first two years in office. It does not include his personal returns for 2018 or 2019. This article offers an overview of The Times’s findings; additional articles will be published in the coming weeks.

...
 

nlogax

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I thought one of the bigger highlights was that he's paying his daughter consultancy fees for projects that she's managing/working on as an employee of Trump's businesses! I mean that's one hell of a wheeze to use to reduce your tax liability!

In normal (ie pre 2016) times this would have raised enough eyebrows to temporarily reduce the world's gravitational pull. Now none of it really matters, or at least it won't affect how a huge swathe of Trump supporters will cast their votes.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...d7bdd8-fe79-11ea-8d05-9beaaa91c71f_story.html

‘All in’ for Trump: These White men, the strongest Trump supporters, say they can’t be swayed
SANDUSKY, Ohio — The parade of boats was decked out in flags and banners screaming support for President Trump, led by a barge that had been used in previous summers for bikini-tops-optional parties on Sandusky Bay but was now laden with 10 cannons and a crane holding up a 22-by-15-foot American flag. It flapped in the wind as the cannons fired.

There were motorcycles and pickup trucks on the shore, and an antique military plane in the sky. Trump flags seemed to far outnumber American ones; at least one Confederate flag flew among them. The dozen or so men firing the cannons wore red hats embroidered with Trump’s name and praise for the president. They shouted strings of excited obscenities as they marveled at the hundreds of boats behind them.
“There are still people coming to get into the parade!” exclaimed Shaun Bickley, 54, the barge owner who organized the parade and would later change into a black tank top with “Trump 2020” and an expletive written around an American flag-patterned skull. “Man, do you see all of these people?”

“Act like we’re being fired on!” yelled Jeff Karr, 59, who dropped out of high school to join the Ohio National Guard and spent 36 years in the military, including the Army Reserve, with two tours in Iraq and one in Afghanistan. Another volley of explosions sounded.
Blue-collar men such as Bickley, Karr and their buddies on the barge are the core of Trump’s base of support, and their enthusiasm for the president has only deepened since they first voted for him, even as Trump has driven away some voters, especially college graduates and women. As illustrated by the masculinity-oozing boat parade, the Trump Party is largely a party of men — especially White men without college degrees and especially those over the age of 40.
 

LSWR Cavalier

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Apparently he paid little in federal taxes, state taxes were not mentioned
Did the report distort by omission? Did he pay a lot in state or other taxes? Is he just a brilliant businessperson with good tax attorneys?

Who is his hairdresser? I like to observe salon names. In Bangor there is one called British Hairways;)
 

nlogax

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Apparently he paid little in federal taxes, state taxes were not mentioned
Did the report distort by omission? Did he pay a lot in state or other taxes? Is he just a brilliant businessperson with good tax attorneys?

The only way he could legally get away with a yearly $750 federal tax bill is by claiming huge losses across his businesses. So either he's a terrible business person or a tax cheat. Or both.

Who is his hairdresser? I like to observe salon names. In Bangor there is one called British Hairways;)

Going by the old Gawker article photo I'd suggest it's either Balfour Beatty or Skanska.

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najaB

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Apparently he paid little in federal taxes, state taxes were not mentioned
Did the report distort by omission? Did he pay a lot in state or other taxes? Is he just a brilliant businessperson with good tax attorneys?
Since the same financial information informs both state and federal taxes there's no legal way to pay the correct amount of one and not the other.
 
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ComUtoR

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Hope Hicks has Corona....

Donald Trump has Corona...

How did his wife get it...
 

peters

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The New York Times has reported Donald Trump has COVID-19 and will be offered excellent medical care. Donald Trump dismisses anything factual printed in the New York Times prints as fake news. So surely Donald Trump having COVID-19 and getting excellent medical care is fake news.
 

ld0595

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Yes, admitted earlier tonight as a precaution so no cause for alarm supposedly.. but we heard similar for Boris Johnston so I suspect it may be worse than the White House is letting on.

Will be interesting to see if this changes his approach if/when he's recovered.
 

najaB

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Returning to the discussion which started in the 2020 US Election thread of a pardon for Donald Trump, the two scenarios are a) DJT resigns in early January so that President Pence can pardon him; or b) President Biden issues a pardon after taking office.

I can definitely see the GOP favouring the first option since it allows 45 to slip out of the country (at least for a while) before or on inauguration day. However, I don't think Trump would be capable of following this plan since accepting a pardon is an admission of wrongdoing, and more importantly for his ego it would mean that he 'failed' as President.

So the second option is more likely.

The question is, would it be better for Biden to issue the pardon immediately or to wait a while? In my opinion, he should wait and let the wheels of justice turn and only offer the pardon once Trump is convicted of one of his numerous offences. This would go a long way to restoring faith in the justice system, plus it might help to break the spell that Trump has over his faithful - a lot of them are of the opinion that "He ain't in jail so he ain't done nothing wrong", ignoring (or ignorant) of the fact that the DOJ won't prosecute a sitting president.
 

DelW

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I think the best punishment for Trump would be to deny him access to Twitter (and equivalents). He'd probably explode with internal fury within a week! It would also be more peaceful for the rest of the world, and help prevent him fomenting even more trouble.
 

ainsworth74

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That's a good question. There's an argument that he shouldn't, but the best argument for it is that Trump in jail is a martyr.

Perhaps, though I think his supporters will consider him a martyr and a victim pardon or no pardon. However, more importantly, I can't help but feel it would be a gargantuan slap in the face to the millions of people who voted for Biden in part (or entirely) because of his rampant criminality and misbehaviour both whilst in office and before. Indeed I could very well see such a thing do pretty irrevocable damage to the Democratic Party and their voter base if Trump gets pardoned. Mid-terms are only two years away and they're already tough for the party that holds the presidency. I can't help but feel that pardoning Trump would guarantee a loss in those elections.
 

birchesgreen

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After he leaves the White House his twitter account will no longer be protected and he can (and - considering what he tweets - will) be suspended.
 

DB

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Perhaps, though I think his supporters will consider him a martyr and a victim pardon or no pardon. However, more importantly, I can't help but feel it would be a gargantuan slap in the face to the millions of people who voted for Biden in part (or entirely) because of his rampant criminality and misbehaviour both whilst in office and before. Indeed I could very well see such a thing do pretty irrevocable damage to the Democratic Party and their voter base if Trump gets pardoned. Mid-terms are only two years away and they're already tough for the party that holds the presidency. I can't help but feel that pardoning Trump would guarantee a loss in those elections.

Why?

Those who vote Democrat aren't going to suddenly vote Republican for that reason, are they? If they dislike Trump they will be more against Trump's own party? (who chose him as their presidential candudate) than the Democrats. And to use terms such as 'irrevocable' is pure hyperbole.
 

najaB

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However, more importantly, I can't help but feel it would be a gargantuan slap in the face to the millions of people who voted for Biden in part (or entirely) because of his rampant criminality and misbehaviour both whilst in office and before.
True. Which is why any pardon would be best issued after the guilty verdict. The reason for offering a pardon is to act as an olive branch to Republicans.
 

ainsworth74

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Why?

Those who vote Democrat aren't going to suddenly vote Republican for that reason, are they? If they dislike Trump they will be more against Trump's own party? (who chose him as their presidential candudate) than the Democrats. And to use terms such as 'irrevocable' is pure hyperbole.
They just won't vote. Hillary lost in 2016 because they didn't get out the vote. Biden won in 2020 because they did. Even despite the records set turnout was still probably only around 66% nationally and plenty of states have been won by a few thousand votes. Pardoning Trump will almost certainly make it that bit harder to get people to vote. Which will likely translate into a loss at the mid-terms and, unless the GOP bring out another Donald Trump in 2024, almost certainly damage the hopes of the presidency in the next presidential.

You are certainly welcome to disagree but I can see nothing but downsides to Biden pardoning Trump. Both in the short term and the longer term.

True. Which is why any pardon would be best issued after the guilty verdict. The reason for offering a pardon is to act as an olive branch to Republicans.
You must have more faith than I do that anyone can do anything that will cause the Republicans to behave sensibly again :lol:
 
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Domh245

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The reason for offering a pardon is to act as an olive branch to Republicans.

That very much depends on if the Republicans want to keep on being the Trump party, or want to quickly distance themselves from the last 5 years. It wouldn't be the worst move - it'd gain them more of the moderates at no penalty, die hard trumpers aren't going to start voting Democrat!
 

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