Don't mess with 25kV

Discussion in 'International Transport' started by metrocammel, 12 Jun 2009.

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  1. metrocammel

    metrocammel Member

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    As it's rather disturbing, I'm not going to post a direct link, however, I received an email earlier with a comment 'No Messin' with 25kV'

    Anyway, if you type'Man Gets Electrocuted on Train' into Google, you will see what I mean.Of course, don't watch if you're of a squeamish or nervous disposition.

    Really, it is unlikely that anyone would do such a thing in Britain, but having such a graphic description of what overhead wires can do to you could possibly make teenagers aware of the perils of the railways.

    At the end of the day (assuming that that video is real, which it appears to be) a reconstruction can never be as hard hitting as the real thing.....

    If I was a chav, and I'd seen that video, I would think twice about tagging near overhead wires or above the cant rail stripe on a train!!
     
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  3. Yank 119

    Yank 119 Member

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    My dad sent me that video about a week ago.

    Very educational, something that most of us are likely never to see, thank goodness. Powerful and amazing stuff.

    My only question is, how many amps passed through his body? After all, it's the amps, not the volts, that kill.
     
  4. NSEFAN

    NSEFAN Established Member

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    http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_3/4.html

    That page explains why about the effects of the current and the voltage. Seems that not a lot of current is needed before it is lethal. The table about the different current ratings is quite interesting.

    That video is incredible. A perfect example of how dangerous electricity can be. Definetely not for the squeamish though...
     
    Last edited: 12 Jun 2009
  5. 37401

    37401 Established Member

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    holy c**p just saw that vid, just proves how dangerous it is, im assuming he didnt survive.
     
  6. mumrar

    mumrar Established Member

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    I haven't seen it but from comments if it's genuine, I doubt they survived. On a seperate note, it's 3rd rail that is more life threatening. As it's DC the current doesn't change to repell you so your on it till the current is isolated! Only one known survivor, a maintenance worker who was a Rugby player, very thick set and helped him out, but still on the 3rd rail for over 30seconds. Plus 3rd rail is far more accessible to people trespassing not knowing about it than overheads.
     
  7. O L Leigh

    O L Leigh Established Member

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    I saw that last week.

    The voltage in the OLE may generally be enough to repel, but you don't have to be in contact with it for long. I don't know precisely what the voltage or current would have been as it tends to vary depending on how far you are from a feeder station, but drawing an arc like that creates exceptionally high temperatures that effectively cooks the flesh around the path the juice follows to earth.

    If the initial jolt isn't enough to stop your heart, the burns and associated injuries you suffer as a result are usually enough to finish you off later.

    As for survival rates, if the number of PWay and southern drivers who have told me their exploits with the juice rail are anything to go by, the 3rd rail is actually fairly benign (though that is only in comparative terms). I have NEVER heard similar stories concerning the overheads. In fact, there is only one person I know of who got a belt of the wires and lived, though was very badly injured by the experience.

    O L Leigh
     
  8. SouthEastern-465

    SouthEastern-465 Established Member

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    I would not like to be in his shoes,but it proves some people dont Know the real danger of the railway.
     
  9. 37401

    37401 Established Member

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    yeah LUL 4th rail is a common killer i hear, i once heard about this homeless guy who was drunk and fell alseep on the line he was touching the - and one hand was almost on the +, he was one of the lucky ones, very lucky
     
  10. william

    william Established Member

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    I think you can assume so considering his head and torso caught fire:lol:

    Ive never seen a man burn like that. On the plus side, I think that spontaeneous human combustion mystery has finally been solved
     
  11. merlodlliw

    merlodlliw Established Member

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    One does not have to touch 25KV, if its raining the the power will jump a foot or so
     
  12. berwickspotter

    berwickspotter Member

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    I also seen that video last week and was shocked when i seen it
    but it does get the message across to people that railways are a dangerous place
     
  13. 43034 The Black Horse

    43034 The Black Horse Established Member

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    I wouldn't either! Seen as he is perfectly earthed!
     
  14. Aussie_Rail

    Aussie_Rail Member

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    Woah! He literally caught fire! Interesting because I always thought Indian people rode on the roof of their trains and the sides and where ever they could hold on?

    That's happened here a few times, people train surfing and they come into contact with the overhead and bang! they're gone.

    Must be a horrible way to die.
     
  15. mbonwick

    mbonwick Established Member

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    Not too bad. Quick at least.

    It is true that Indians do ride on the roof, however this is mainly on non-electrified lines. However, you probably could get away with it if there was OHLE - the guy is OK untill he touches it/ gets very close.
     
  16. O L Leigh

    O L Leigh Established Member

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    Would you chance it...?

    25kV can jump quite some distance if the conditions are correct. I expect the reason it didn't do so in this instance is that it looked very much like a hot dry day. I certainly wouldn't take this video as any guide to how close you can safely get to the OLE before getting juiced.

    Incidentally, people tend to hang onto the sides of electric trains in India in preference to sitting on the roof.

    O L Leigh
     
  17. furryfeet

    furryfeet Member

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    two points:-

    a) does this qualify as a contender for the Darwin award ?
    b) why did no one ring up the control centre and get the OHLE isolated ?

    p.s. How long in practice would it take Railtrack to turn off the power if something similar were to happen in the UK ?
     
  18. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    b) because people do that all the time in India, read the last page,
     
  19. AC/DC Boy.

    AC/DC Boy. Member

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    BTP training and LUL training involves walking over the LU tracks with the juice on!
     
  20. O L Leigh

    O L Leigh Established Member

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    No. This guy appears to have been deliberately trying to commit suicide which would discount him right away.

    Like who...? The punters wouldn't know who to call.

    You would be waiting a long time for Railtrack to come and turn off the juice. Network Rail, on the other hand, can get it turned off pretty quickly.

    The problem is that it still takes a certain amount of time to place the call, request an emergency isolation and for that to be carried out. Even then, there will still be a residual voltage left in the OLE so it cannot be regarded as "safe" until someone has come out to earth the section. The problem is that if a punter comes running up and tells me that there's a person climbing up onto the roof of my train it may already be too late to take action to prevent them from being juiced.

    That's normal for a PTS assessment.

    I had to do mine on the ECML at Hornsey depot. Admittedly there were no juice rails to worry about, but we had to safely cross the entire width of the depot, all the running lines (linespeed 95mph) and Ferme Park Sidings, and then get back again.

    O L Leigh
     
  21. westcoaster

    westcoaster Established Member

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    mine was simular but across the wcml 2 fasts (110mph), 2 slows, 2 locals, 3 freight, but the last freight line we had to pretend was a 3rd rail line, and take a giant step across the rail and the invisable 3rd rail:roll:.
     
  22. O L Leigh

    O L Leigh Established Member

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    I'd have been inclined to take a stroll along the line a little way pretending to look for a gap. ;)

    O L Leigh
     
  23. The_Stig

    The_Stig Member

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    Seen the video, It is as if the guy at the start is trying to coax him down from the carriage roof.

    I am puzzled though, I thought that all trains now were built of composites that do not conduct electricity incase of downed power lines? I assume that this was not one.
     
  24. O L Leigh

    O L Leigh Established Member

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    All trains are still built of metal and so WILL conduct the electricity if it is given a chance to arc across. The reason why everyone inside doesn't get juiced up is because the body of the train forms a Faraday Cage.

    O L Leigh
     
  25. Aussie_Rail

    Aussie_Rail Member

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    Most, if not all trains in Melbourne are made from Stainless steel and I've often wondered what would happen if the overhead came down on the train.
     
  26. 43034 The Black Horse

    43034 The Black Horse Established Member

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    Yes they do but they guy wasn't 100% all there i.e Mentally ill . At the start of the video it shows people trying to get him to come down
     
  27. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    true, but in England, someone trying get on top of a 170 at New St for example would have caused the BTP to get them to come down or something, but in India, its common so people wouldnt have know before he got up there that he was going to do that
     
  28. metrocammel

    metrocammel Member

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    I'm not too sure about that. A man was frazzled at Oxford Road on top of a Freightliner container in 2007- a rather expensive fare to pay for trying to get a free ride ( http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-439376/Man-electrocuted-train-train-surfing.html ). No one filmed that, so the effect wasn't as visual as this Indian scenario, but I'm sure quite as horrific in real life.
     
  29. MCR247

    MCR247 Established Member

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    i didnt mean it wouldnt happen, I meant (in india) passengers might not call the people in charge as its common, whereas in the UK, people would tell him to come down etc all call BTP or NR to get the to turn the power off etc
     
  30. yorkie

    yorkie Administrator Staff Member Administrator

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    I can't see any evidence to suggest the Indian equivalent of the BTP didn't provide a response as erm, 'quick' as our BTP would have done. How long was he up there for and how long would our BTP have reacted do you think?
     
  31. Teaboy1

    Teaboy1 Member

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    I worked 10 years as a 'HV R&D Technician' and was regularly testing with stuff up to 180kV so the basic physics are that electricity will flash-over about 1kV impulse peak per 18-16 mm in point-to-point configuration <worse case> and about 1kV impulse peak per 12-16 mm in plane-to-plane configuration <best case> not that our chap here would have know that. One has to assume he had a death wish! Anyway 25 kV AC will peak at some 35.4 kV which equates to about 400 mm or thereabouts....when things begin fizz....Ive heard it before a flash-over....and it definitely fizzes before it goes bang,
    Anyway its horrible but over in a flash. Notice the second flash as-well, thats the DAR operating (Delay Auto-Reclose) and usually its there to restore power if a branch or brief fault develops causing a ground fault. Normally we want the power back on ASAP to minimise disruption so the switch gear employ the DAR to reapply power after 1-2 second.
    Still a horrible video nasty and should be shown to vandals and even innocent folk like fishermen with graphite / carbon rods. Happens on power-lines near rivers and streams as well as railways unfortunately.
    Ive only had 1 electric shock in my time....from mi motorbike and by-eck I did'nt half knock me on my back !!
     
    Last edited: 15 Jun 2009
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