Door controls left open

[387star]

On a 150 the intermediate door shuts if you key out without flicking the local switch first
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For some reason on 158s you can key in and even flick open the local door switch whilst the train is on the move, and the door controls for that door will light up, but the brakes still won't kick in. Not something I've done intentionally obviously, but if the previous guard leaves the local switch open and you don't notice before you key in that's what happens......



But again it's very important to emphasise that without keying in, on a 158/9 nothing will happen to the doors regardless of what buttons you press.

I always thought That's because the doors take time to open depending what speed the train is

 

[HLE]

On a 158 a local door switch can be open and it is possible to obtain break release

Must be unique 'feature' of the 153's then.

 

[40129]

On some cl-153s the door control panel cannot be closed unless the local door lever has been flicked up. Worst feature of these trains however IMHO is that the door key switch is neither inside nor immediately adjacent to the panel so it's real easy to close the panel and walk down the train without keying out. To make things worse, the buzzer that sounds when you then try keying in at the other end makes the same noise as the bell buzzer in the cab. I know of at least one driver who has pulled up sharp thinking the guard wanted him to stop (oops!)

 

[Llama]

On a 150 the intermediate door shuts if you key out without flicking the local switch first
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I always thought That's because the doors take time to open depending what speed the train is

On a 150/2 the local door will shut when you switch the DKS off regardless of whether you have left the local switch on or off. The difference is that on some /2s the local switch is wired into train wire four and will prevent brake release. Brake release is obtainable on some /2s though, I suspect as a way of reducing the number of 'unable to release brakes' faults which impact on performance. Whether the mod is officially sanctioned or not would be best answered by a TOC engineer - the design should be that the local door switch prevents brake release because if that feature is disabled then a dangerous set of circumstances is created.

Re. the second point, that wouldn't be a design feature. What if the train had a defect causing the speedo to read zero for instance (not that uncommon) - that would potentially create dangerous wrong-side fault with the emergency egress.

 

[LowLevel]

When it happened to me on a 153 I maintain it wasn't my fault - the panel had a wooden brick in it to stop you closing it with the switch down. The fitter who came for a look couldn't replicate it and no one ever did work put how it happened. Irritatingly the buzzer still works etc so I was scurrying around with the driver checking passcoms and only started opening up panels as a last resort. When I did open the panel the switch dropped down with a clunk so I can only assume it hadn't quite gone far enough up to make contact but still looked OK.

 

[M60lad]

In the past I've noticed the odd door control cover left open on 142s, now out of interest would I (as a passenger) be ok closing it or should I have let the conductor know and also can any of the buttons be operated with the door control flap open on a 142, I'm guessing like other trains they would have to be keyed in to get them to work but my main concern if the flap is left open on 142s is the buzzer is quite visible and labled so someone could easily have some fun if they wanted to

 

[hidden]

In the past I've noticed the odd door control cover left open on 142s, now out of interest would I (as a passenger) be ok closing it or should I have let the conductor know and also can any of the buttons be operated with the door control flap open on a 142, I'm guessing like other trains they would have to be keyed in to get them to work but my main concern if the flap is left open on 142s is the buzzer is quite visible and labled so someone could easily have some fun if they wanted to

If you notify the conductor they would likely be grateful for the heads up and a little embarassed ha. I cant see any harm in closing the flap if it was open (front unit for example) if the guard was not around.

 

[387star]

On a 150/2 the local door will shut when you switch the DKS off regardless of whether you have left the local switch on or off. The difference is that on some /2s the local switch is wired into train wire four and will prevent brake release. Brake release is obtainable on some /2s though, I suspect as a way of reducing the number of 'unable to release brakes' faults which impact on performance. Whether the mod is officially sanctioned or not would be best answered by a TOC engineer - the design should be that the local door switch prevents brake release because if that feature is disabled then a dangerous set of circumstances is created.

Re. the second point, that wouldn't be a design feature. What if the train had a defect causing the speedo to read zero for instance (not that uncommon) - that would potentially create dangerous wrong-side fault with the emergency egress.

Understandable with a crew door as afaik on a 150/2 a crew door is only opened for the passengers if between units in multiple unless you have activated it as a local door

I was talking about the intermediate door and yes your right I think whether the local rocker switch is off or on the door will close if it is open when you key out of course you can press the open door button to quickly open it again

 

[HLE]

On some cl-153s the door control panel cannot be closed unless the local door lever has been flicked up. Worst feature of these trains however IMHO is that the door key switch is neither inside nor immediately adjacent to the panel so it's real easy to close the panel and walk down the train without keying out. To make things worse, the buzzer that sounds when you then try keying in at the other end makes the same noise as the bell buzzer in the cab. I know of at least one driver who has pulled up sharp thinking the guard wanted him to stop (oops!)

Yes it's a problem and a half especially when the vestibules full.

Think it's happened to quite a few guards that sign them. It's not suprising. Happened about 6 months ago to a Guard who'd just passed out. Worst thing about it was they didn't know what they'd done, or why we had come to a stand in the middle of nowhere quite sharply!

 

[wellwhatitis]

Yes it's a problem and a half especially when the vestibules full.

Think it's happened to quite a few guards that sign them. It's not suprising. Happened about 6 months ago to a Guard who'd just passed out. Worst thing about it was they didn't know what they'd done, or why we had come to a stand in the middle of nowhere quite sharply!

I've done it on a 153. I doubt there's many that haven't, if you're in the middle of talking to a passenger when you shut the doors it's very easy to forget to go across the other side and key out. First you know is when you're down the other end trying to key in by which time the driver is on the brakes and you can't get through the train for standing passengers to rectify things....

The problem would be easily solved by gathering the whole fleet of 153's together and starting a massive bonfire. I can't think of a more constructive solution at this moment.

 

[HLE]

I've done it on a 153. I doubt there's many that haven't, if you're in the middle of talking to a passenger when you shut the doors it's very easy to forget to go across the other side and key out. First you know is when you're down the other end trying to key in by which time the driver is on the brakes and you can't get through the train for standing passengers to rectify things....

The problem would be easily solved by gathering the whole fleet of 153's together and starting a massive bonfire. I can't think of a more constructive solution at this moment.

Agree entirely with that. Except the last bit. Who doesn't like working a dogbox?

 

[duffield]

I cant see any harm in closing the flap if it was open (front unit for example) if the guard was not around.

I'd strongly recommend *not* doing this. If the guard or other rail staff (possibly even off duty, not in uniform) saw this and misinterpreted your actions you might find yourself having a long conversation with the BTP...

 

[Pigeon]

I have on various occasions tried to close flaps and panels inside trains that were open when they shouldn't have been. Invariably they would open themselves again immediately, so I don't bother any more...

 

[hidden]

I'd strongly recommend *not* doing this. If the guard or other rail staff (possibly even off duty, not in uniform) saw this and misinterpreted your actions you might find yourself having a long conversation with the BTP...

So...?

Scenario A

"It was open, I was closing it"
"Ok thanks!"

Scenario B

"It was open, I was closing it"
"I am calling the police"

Really? As a guard myself, I know which scenario would suit me.

 

[jon0844]

That would involve lots of paperwork and an interview without coffee...

How many ALRs could you print off before the ticket stock ran out?!

I assume there's some security, like the need to enter a password/PIN after a certain period of inactivity?

 

[craigybagel]

How many ALRs could you print off before the ticket stock ran out?!

Depends how long it takes you to find the ALR! Whilst Advantix is in a general a fairly user friendly bit of kit (reliability and battery life issues aside), finding the right rover can be a nightmare.

I assume there's some security, like the need to enter a password/PIN after a certain period of inactivity?

There is. It can also be locked manually without having to wait for it to do it itself.

 

[Flamingo]

How many ALRs could you print off before the ticket stock ran out?!

I assume there's some security, like the need to enter a password/PIN after a certain period of inactivity?

A password/pin is required, but everything can be hacked. Without going into details, I have known cases of stolen machines being used...

And of course, this case http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/3724910.display/

 

[NorthernSpirit]

If you notify the conductor they would likely be grateful for the heads up and a little embarassed ha. I cant see any harm in closing the flap if it was open (front unit for example) if the guard was not around.

I've closed a DKS pannel on a 144 before now before notifying the guard that it was left open.

 

[L&Y Robert]

I've travelled from Bury to Manchester many a time on the old L&Y electrics with the door open. The carriages had end vistibiles, and the doors were wide, and opened in. Sometimes the door would slowly open itself with the hunting of the carriage. Nobody seemed to care, or even notice, passengers or staff.

 

[father_jack]

A password/pin is required, but everything can be hacked. Without going into details, I have known cases of stolen machines being used...

And of course, this case http://www.yorkpress.co.uk/news/3724910.display/

Indeed, I've heard train despatch pays a little less than being TM