Double backing on Oyster outside boundary zones

[nicobobinus]

A question prompted by the slow outward creep of Oyster ticketing facilities beyond the travelcard area.

If I wished to travel from Liverpool Street to Turkey Street using Oyster PAYG, this journey would typically be made on a stopping service via Seven Sisters & Southbury and I would be charged a 1-6 PAYG fare. Fair enough.

If I were instead to travel on a fast train to Cheshunt via Tottenham Hale and change back onto a Southbury Loop service, this gives a notional extra 2tph between London and Turkey Street between the direct stoppers - the journey time is a little longer, but still quicker than waiting for the next direct via Southbury. So it is an option I would theoretically consider using regularly. Doing so on an Oyster would, however, take me out of the 1-6 Travelcard area travelling through Waltham Cross, Cheshunt and back through Theobalds Grove. These stations all do now have Oyster/PAYG accessible to them. There are other more localised journeys that would make more sense travelling via Cheshunt, e.g. Edmonton Green - Enfield Lock.

Is this something I could do legitimately, or would an RPI check on 'the bounce' from Cheshunt to the z6 station see me with a PF or worse?

I had similar scenarios on other lines such as Upminster-Rainham via Grays and Liv St/Stratford - Harold Wood via Shenfield in mind as I typed these up, but the practical advantages of doing either of these isn't something I've looked into.

 

[bb21]

You might find the discussion in this thread helpful.

My understanding is that you are permitted to take any route within the Oyster PAYG area. As long as you touch in and out of the system at the beginning and the end of your journey within the maximum journey time, you cannot be penalised.

Other people might disagree.

 

[maniacmartin]

I think you'd really struggle to to convince an RPI that your Oyster was valid if your route took you outside of the Oyster zones.

 

[nicobobinus]

I think you'd really struggle to to convince an RPI that your Oyster was valid if your route took you outside of the Oyster zones.

Before the rollout of Oyster to Cheshunt & Broxbourne this is something I would have accepted as plain and clear - but they do come under zones 7 & 8 now for the purposes of making PAYG journeys to/from those stations. So while the journey would leave the London travelcard area, it wouldn't leave the *oyster* zonal area. I'm curious as to whether there is any consensus on what position double backing through these particular zonal areas would leave me in.

 

[MikeWh]

You will be fine as long as you have enough credit to allow you to exit at the furthest station should circumstances force you to do this. You also need to ensure that you don't exceed the maximum journey time between touch in at the start and touch out at the end.

 

[yorkie]

There is no doubling back in the journey you describe (but there isn't a rule against doubling back on Oyster anyway).

Doing so on an Oyster would, however, take me out of the 1-6 Travelcard area travelling through Waltham Cross, Cheshunt and back through Theobalds Grove.

You mention a Travelcard now, but earlier you mentioned PAYG.

If it's a Travelcard, being used out of area, then you MUST be touched in AND have sufficient PAYG balance to cover any possible additional charge that may (or may not) be incurred.

If it's Oyster PAYG, then the Travelcard Zones are irrelevant.

These stations all do now have Oyster/PAYG accessible to them.

Making it valid to use Oyster PAYG.

Is this something I could do legitimately, or would an RPI check on 'the bounce' from Cheshunt to the z6 station see me with a PF or worse?

You are permitted to use these routes, now that they are in the Oyster PAYG area, providng you adhere to the Oyster Conditions of Use, by tapping in & out as appropriate, and ensure you have sufficient PAYG balance (I strongly recommend auto-topup)

I had similar scenarios on other lines such as Upminster-Rainham via Grays and Liv St/Stratford - Harold Wood via Shenfield in mind as I typed these up, but the practical advantages of doing either of these isn't something I've looked into.

Be sure to have sufficient Oyster PAYG balance, ensure you do not exceed the maximum journey time, stay within the Oyster PAYG area, and adhere to the rules, and you are not doing anything wrong as far as I can see.

 

[dlj83]

I've been told by a member of staff before that when using Oyster you need to touch out then touch back in wherever you change trains.

 

[yorkie]

I've been told by a member of staff before that when using Oyster you need to touch out then touch back in wherever you change trains.

Absolutely untrue, and I would suggest writing to the Customer Services dept of the TOC concerned, and raising that as a training issue.

http://www.tfl.gov.uk/tickets/14870.aspx

Changing trains
If you have to change trains (without changing stations) during a journey and are using pay as you go ( even if it's only for some of your journey), you should: Touch in at the start of the journey and out at the end

• Touch in at the start of the journey and out at the end
• Touch on a pink card reader if there is one
• Don't touch any other yellow card readers during your journey. If you do, you may be charged for two separate journeys

If you need to change stations during your journey

• Touch out when you leave one station
• Touch in again when you enter another station

In some cases this may mean changing from one train operator to another. For example, when changing from the Tube to National Rail at Walthamstow Central, touch out on a gate as you exit the tube station and touch in on a validator when you enter the National Rail station.

So the only reason you should touch in & out when changing trains is if you are changing stations or, in a minority of cases, the gateline layout may require you to touch out & back in within the same station. Sometimes there are standalone readers (for people combining Oyster PAYG with paper tickets) within stations and these should be ignored when changing trains.

 

[Be3G]

Further to what's been said here, I seem to recall that the timetable posters at Liverpool Street actually show the journeys to Turkey Street via Cheshunt; whilst that doesn't technically mean anything in terms of ticketing, it shows that it's deemed to be a reasonable (in the layman's sense) route to take for that journey. The whole journey via Cheshunt is covered by Oyster now so there's absolutely no reason to not travel that way if desired.