Double decking light rail

[Holly]

Thinking about HS routes into city centres (notably HS2 in Manchester, but more generally), I was toying with existing rights of way that are modernly used primarily for commuters and reusing for HS.

So I go to wondering, since it is so expensive to either elevate or tunnel HS, whether there might be mileage in stacking light rail (tram) tracks vertically?
Thus using one trackbed instead of two for a light rail commuter service.

Of course it is a gross inconvenience (not to mention expense) to have elevated stations but perhaps the tracks could swap levels here and there where space permitted (the right of way could be widened for a short distance).

I was thinking for example of diverting existing Manchester airport heavy rail trains along a new line. And reusing the Styal branch right of way through Heald Green for a combination of HS2 and trams.

Are there any examples of one-up / one-down tramlines anywhere in the world?

 

[Jonny]

The trouble with one up/one down is that, in low-rise residential areas, people don't like it when others have a clear view into their bedrooms.

 

[bangor-toad]

Are there any examples of one-up / one-down tramlines anywhere in the world?

Hi there,
I've been on such a system on a trip to Japan. In the low rise area the tracks were side by side as normal but on occasion one track would rise up and go above the other in the more built up areas.

It's quite impressive to see such a one up / one down elevated flyover twist and turn between the skyscrapers.

I'd love to say exactly where it is but I've got no idea!


Given the cost of elevated structures it may be best to have heavy rail on the ground floor and elevated light rail as that's need a lower load bearing construction.
OK that's a guess but I imagine the requirements for an elevated section to support a tram travelling at a max of 70mph would be less than to support a full HS2 set at much higher speeds. One for the Civil Engineers I think...

Cheers,
Jason

 

[Eagle]

Are there any examples of one-up / one-down tramlines anywhere in the world?

There's quite a few bits on the Tube like that... admittedly they're underground in tubes (Central and Northern lines in particular have quite a few sections like that).

 

[YorkshireBear]

Well considering a heavy rail line would have to take freight and that trams are considerably lighter than heavy rail trains. Thusyour maximum loading is much less therefore it doesnt need to be as expensive design.

 

[Wyvern]

Elevated railways above roads are quite common in the States. As seen in the film "The Blues Brothers"

 

[Eagle]

Elevated railways above roads are quite common in the States. As seen in the film "The Blues Brothers"

Is that the Chicago El?

 

[Railsigns]

This is in Brooklyn, New York:

 

[transmanche]

Canning Town station is built like that. DLR above LU.

 

[tsr]

I'm led to believe that Manila (Philippines) has many railways elevated above roads. I have no idea about the prevalence of "double-deck" railways, but I can well imagine that they do have them.

It's a good idea, and of course several bridges also use this technique worldwide.

I can imagine systems like Croydon Tramlink being used with this sort of infrastructure in the future. The rather understated Wandle Park Flyover on said tram network would be quite interesting to engineer with one-up/one-down!

 

[gordonthemoron]

Munich S-Bahn through Marienplatz has one track above another, as have various stations on Berlin U9

 

[WatcherZero]

I dont think the original viaducts could take it, you would have to start again from scratch.

If you think about it you would have to close for two years to demolish and rebuild and that would just be a short stretch. The disruption cost would be astounding, probably cheaper to tunnel!

 

[LE Greys]

Another area of capacity increase. Is there enough space between rail and wire for double-deck trams?

 

[WatcherZero]

Double decker buses can get under it fine so yes, however theres several original bridges that would need raising as the pantographs are practically at minimum height underneath, and a few tunnels as well which would need excavating for more height.

 

[Clip]

Canning Town station is built like that. DLR above LU.

wow thats an old picture!!

Its kind of like a double decker bit as you go into Canary wharf from Poplar or Bank Directions. Building stations in the air can be that expensive - poplar itself is raised along with others on the DLR so I see no need why if something in future was to be built it couldnt be done.

 

[Nym]

I dont think the original viaducts could take it, you would have to start again from scratch.

If you think about it you would have to close for two years to demolish and rebuild and that would just be a short stretch. The disruption cost would be astounding, probably cheaper to tunnel!

The viaduct running metrolink there is four tracks wide anyway...

 

[WatcherZero]

Well the classic rail is alongside on the other viaduct and im using it as an example of the quality of the viaduct structures across the city and suburbs, but the point was if it was taken as a HSR line you would still have to replace the viaduct.