• Our booking engine at tickets.railforums.co.uk (powered by TrainSplit) helps support the running of the forum with every ticket purchase! Find out more and ask any questions/give us feedback in this thread!

Doubling the Felixstowe branch?

Status
Not open for further replies.

Gathursty

Established Member
Joined
31 May 2011
Messages
2,517
Location
Wigan
I've had the pleasure of journeys on the Felixstowe and Harwich Town branches last week but am left with two questions.
Why is the Harwich Town branch double track all the way to Harwich International when the Felixstowe branch is single in places?
When will/Will the Felixstowe branch be fully doubled?
 
Sponsor Post - registered members do not see these adverts; click here to register, or click here to log in
R

RailUK Forums

bspahh

Established Member
Joined
5 Jan 2017
Messages
1,727
I've had the pleasure of journeys on the Felixstowe and Harwich Town branches last week but am left with two questions.
Why is the Harwich Town branch double track all the way to Harwich International when the Felixstowe branch is single in places?
When will/Will the Felixstowe branch be fully doubled?

There will be 1.4km more double track from autumn 2019. https://www.networkrail.co.uk/running-the-railway/our-routes/anglia/felixstowe-branch-line/

https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/felixstowe-branch-a-bit-of-double-track-at-trimley.155308/

There is a comment in that thread to say that there is space for a second track, and for a second bridge at Spring Road. It just needs the cash, but it would be best to spend that first on other bits, like the Ely North junction.
 
Last edited:

HLE

Established Member
Joined
27 Dec 2013
Messages
1,405
Felixstowe needs it but let’s not forget.....this is the railway. Think the viaduct between westerfield and trimley is only wide enough for one line.
 

ac6000cw

Established Member
Joined
10 May 2014
Messages
3,121
Location
Cambridge, UK
I've had the pleasure of journeys on the Felixstowe and Harwich Town branches last week but am left with two questions.
Why is the Harwich Town branch double track all the way to Harwich International when the Felixstowe branch is single in places?
When will/Will the Felixstowe branch be fully doubled?

For many years, Harwich Parkeston Quay (developed originally by the GER in the 1880s) was the more important port facility. The huge growth in Felixstowe as a port is quite recent - the first container handling terminal there didn't open until 1967.

When I first traveled along the Felixstowe branch in the early 1980s, it was still using manual token exchange and the passing loop at Derby Road was too short to allow two long container trains to pass each other...the loop got extended as part of the 1997 upgrading and re-signalling.
 
Last edited:

dk1

Veteran Member
Joined
2 Oct 2009
Messages
15,823
Location
East Anglia
For many years, Harwich Parkstone Quay (developed originally by the GER in the 1880s) was the more important port facility. The huge growth in Felixstowe as a port is quite recent - the first container handling terminal there didn't open until 1967.

When I first traveled along the Felixstowe branch in the early 1980s, it was still using manual token exchange and the passing loop at Derby Road was too short to allow two long container trains to pass each other...the loop got extended as part of the 1997 upgrading and re-signalling.

Harwich Parkeston Quay ;)

When I first signed the Felixstowe branch it was still token operated. The line desperately needs the next upgrade. Should be the first phase in jumping from 66 to 94 Liners each day.
 

GB

Established Member
Joined
16 Nov 2008
Messages
6,457
Location
Somewhere
Should be the first phase in jumping from 66 to 94 Liners each day.

Which of course is not much cop if the trains cannot be turned around either on time and/or to their full capacity.
 

furnessvale

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2015
Messages
4,558
Which of course is not much cop if the trains cannot be turned around either on time and/or to their full capacity.
I believe recent problems have been portside and road haulage is suffering the same delays.
 

GB

Established Member
Joined
16 Nov 2008
Messages
6,457
Location
Somewhere
I believe recent problems have been portside and road haulage is suffering the same delays.

The recent loading issues have been dock side, rail side and road side....all due to IT "upgrades"....however the fundamental issues surrounding staff levels, infrastructure problems and lack of time and space within the rail terminals have been brewing for a number of years....more trains will just make it even worse.
 

ac6000cw

Established Member
Joined
10 May 2014
Messages
3,121
Location
Cambridge, UK
Harwich Parkeston Quay ;)

Oops - now fixed :oops:

The line desperately needs the next upgrade. Should be the first phase in jumping from 66 to 94 Liners each day.
It's good to see progress on the ground now with the new double track/extended loop, twenty one years after the last upgrade. This was the (north/westward) view from Trimley footbridge on 19th May this year (the junction for the north container terminal is in the foreground, trackbed for the new line on the left):
Trimley 19th May 2018 small.jpg
 
Last edited:

furnessvale

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2015
Messages
4,558
The recent loading issues have been dock side, rail side and road side....all due to IT "upgrades"....however the fundamental issues surrounding staff levels, infrastructure problems and lack of time and space within the rail terminals have been brewing for a number of years....more trains will just make it even worse.
Time for a third rail terminal then!
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,909
When I first traveled along the Felixstowe branch in the early 1980s, it was still using manual token exchange and the passing loop at Derby Road was too short to allow two long container trains to pass each other...the loop got extended as part of the 1997 upgrading and re-signalling.

I think the concern should be, are we planning for the next upgrade in 20 years time or so starting now?
 

furnessvale

Established Member
Joined
14 Jul 2015
Messages
4,558
I think the concern should be, are we planning for the next upgrade in 20 years time or so starting now?
Given railway timescales I must agree.

However, port and road expansion seems to be a continuous process. Witness 1.5billions gbp spend on the A14 by 2021.

George
 

XDM

Member
Joined
9 Apr 2016
Messages
483
It is pure hype to call it doubling the Felixstowe branch.

It is extending the single line from one freight terminal by less than a mile.

And the work is painfully slow. Next to nothing done in this very dry spell, an Ipswich driver tells me. He says a week ago the site looked exactly like the picture recently posted here on May 19, unchanged, depressing.

US & Canadian railways would lay this in a similarly rural site in ten days!
 

eastdyke

Established Member
Joined
25 Jan 2010
Messages
1,923
Location
East Midlands
I believe that quay extensions on the Felixstowe side are now at an end. Current work is concentrating on enlarged stacking yards.
Growth will therefore depend upon container handling efficiencies which (in view of up-thread comments) may be considerable. Also there is scope for transfer of traffic from road to rail, rail being less than 30% of current throughputs.
Hutchison Ports has had planning consent for Bathside Bay for some time. The last that I heard the consent, after the most recent time extension, requires a start on site by 2021.
The planning process has suffered appeals on the basis that the original permission was granted with the backdrop of the assertion that extra port capacity was urgently needed in the national interest. Delay in implementation would tend to defeat that assertion.
Anecdotally it has been suggested that the cost of ongoing dredging to afford the latest generation of super container ships access to the new quay may make the project uneconomic.
But of course that could just be fake news to mitigate and disrupt the actions of project detractors!
 

GB

Established Member
Joined
16 Nov 2008
Messages
6,457
Location
Somewhere
It is pure hype to call it doubling the Felixstowe branch.

It is extending the single line from one freight terminal by less than a mile.

And the work is painfully slow. Next to nothing done in this very dry spell, an Ipswich driver tells me. He says a week ago the site looked exactly like the picture recently posted here on May 19, unchanged, depressing.

US & Canadian railways would lay this in a similarly rural site in ten days!

Throw enough resources at it and I'm sure the physical work of this project could be done in a quick time. However there are only so many resources to go about and rail traffic would have to be stopped.

Also it isn't just a mile of track...it also includes complete resignalling (including derby road loop), conversion of several AHB level crossings to OD crossings and installing a rather large foot bridge.
 

Dr Hoo

Established Member
Joined
10 Nov 2015
Messages
3,912
Location
Hope Valley
Throw enough resources at it and I'm sure the physical work of this project could be done in a quick time. However there are only so many resources to go about and rail traffic would have to be stopped.

Also it isn't just a mile of track...it also includes complete resignalling (including derby road loop), conversion of several AHB level crossings to OD crossings and installing a rather large foot bridge.
I thought that the issue was that Network Rail still needs further statutory consents to close some of the crossings. The TWA approval for the loop was only part of the jigsaw.
 

Class 170101

Established Member
Joined
1 Mar 2014
Messages
7,909
I thought that the issue was that Network Rail still needs further statutory consents to close some of the crossings. The TWA approval for the loop was only part of the jigsaw.

But presumably NR don't need the statutory consents before starting work on other parts of the project otherwise why all the recent closures?
 

eastdyke

Established Member
Joined
25 Jan 2010
Messages
1,923
Location
East Midlands
That at least tidies up one little 'loose end'.
I note that one of the Conditions ascribed by the Inquiry Inspector and to be adopted in the order is fatuous. That is to say the condition relating to core working hours.

Core Working Hours
6. The core working hours for all construction activities and any traffic movements to
or from the Site must be limited to 0800 to 1800 hours Monday to Friday and none
on Saturdays, Sundays or Bank Holidays, except:
• Where continuous periods of operation are required, for example during railway possessions and during concrete pouring.
• For the delivery of abnormal loads to the Site which may cause congestion
on the local road network.
Prior notification must be given to the Local Planning Authority for construction activities and traffic movement where such activities or movements fall within the above exceptions.
Reason: In the interests of residential amenity.

Network Rail has organised possessions such that this appears in the disruption notices:

Major engineering work is taking place between Ipswich and Felixstowe, until Autumn 2019.
Most weekends, from 18:50 on Saturday, and all day on Sunday, trains will be cancelled. A replacement bus service will operate between Ipswich and Felixstowe, calling at all stations.
There will also be replacement buses running on bank holiday weekends.

Of course I understand exactly why the possessions will be taken at weekends etc.
I hope that the local residents are equally understanding :)
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,818
Location
Yorks
Of course I understand exactly why the possessions will be taken at weekends etc.
I hope that the local residents are equally understanding :)

One wonders what's the point of closing the line at 18:50 on a Saturday - incurring the expense of running a train, but without operating a full day's service.

It would be better to take longer and just close on Sundays.
 

deltic08

On Moderation
Joined
26 Aug 2013
Messages
2,499
Location
Ripon
Also it isn't just a mile of track...it also includes complete resignalling (including derby road loop), conversion of several AHB level crossings to OD crossings and installing a rather large foot bridge.
I'm familiar with AHB but what is an OD crossing please?
 

eastdyke

Established Member
Joined
25 Jan 2010
Messages
1,923
Location
East Midlands
One wonders what's the point of closing the line at 18:50 on a Saturday - incurring the expense of running a train, but without operating a full day's service.
It would be better to take longer and just close on Sundays.
I think the Felixstowe Branch is about revenue earning and minimising disruption to the main earners which all begin with the letter 'F'.
Freight, freight and more freight.
To get a flavour look at Realtimetrains and vary the date and times from this link which is set for Trimley today 1600-2359:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/TRM/2018/08/18/1600-2359?stp=WVSC&show=all&order=wtt
 

yorksrob

Veteran Member
Joined
6 Aug 2009
Messages
38,818
Location
Yorks
I think the Felixstowe Branch is about revenue earning and minimising disruption to the main earners which all begin with the letter 'F'.
Freight, freight and more freight.
To get a flavour look at Realtimetrains and vary the date and times from this link which is set for Trimley today 1600-2359:
http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/advanced/TRM/2018/08/18/1600-2359?stp=WVSC&show=all&order=wtt

Would "freight, freight and more freight" not also benefit from a six day working railway, rather than five and a bit ?
 

GB

Established Member
Joined
16 Nov 2008
Messages
6,457
Location
Somewhere
It would be better to take longer and just close on Sundays.

Why? How many extra possessions would need to be planned, booked and paid for if you are losing at least 5 hours per weekend?


Would "freight, freight and more freight" not also benefit from a six day working railway, rather than five and a bit ?

Well of course it would, freight would also benefit from a 7 day railway...but as much of the network closes on a Saturday evening for engineering work across the country, not much point running freight down if you can't get it back up again.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Top