Drinking alcohol on a station platform - is it permitted?

[kristiang85]

Because we don't want ill-trained "security" staff to be allowed to invent their own rules and use them to harass passengers who are behaving lawfully on a station platform?

Quite. Enough pleasures in life are heavily policed right now, so enjoying a harmless can of beer whilst waiting for a train shouldn't need to be admonished if there is no rule against it at that location.

This thread reminds me of a couple of years ago when I was on a tube train in London. The driver stopped at a station, and was clearly in a bad mood, as he said "I am not moving this train until the man in the white t-shirt in carriage 5 puts his can of beer away". I thought that was a bit over the top considering the bloke was just sitting and drinking, which whilst against the rules he wasn't causing any bother (and its the only time I've ever seen that rule enforced). He got off at the next stop anyway if I recall correctly.

I'm guessing that the train was held up at a signal anyway and the driver decided to make an example of him, because surely stopping a tube train for such a trivial offence wouldn't be justified normally.

 

[Wolfie]

I've read the whole thread and I'm still struggling to see what the problem is. Can't you just do as you're told?

Really? So if the guy had said "stand on your right leg only" you'd do it? Why exactly should someone's made up ego trip be humoured?

 

[185143]

Really? So if the guy had said "stand on your right leg only" you'd do it? Why exactly should someone's made up ego trip be humoured?

Precisely. Back when Northern put stickers in their units saying "No food or drink to be consumed" I argued with someone on twitter that it was inhumane to stop people even drinking water in the height of summer and directly contradicts the advice put out by most TOCs. He, in fairness, agreed but said it's right to respect the operator's wishes.

I got blocked after asking if he'd travel with his pants on his head if a TOC put signage onboard saying that...

 

[CentralTrainer]

I've read the whole thread and I'm still struggling to see what the problem is. Can't you just do as you're told?

"I don't like your face - leave the station now"

 

[Dave W]

I've read the whole thread and I'm still struggling to see what the problem is. Can't you just do as you're told?

A very slippery slope, this.

You're stood, patiently, quietly, not harming anyone, waiting for your train and a rent-a-thug in a hi-viz jacket walks up and, without warning, tells you to get off the station.

Would you just do as you are told?

 

[DelW]

Part of the problem is that broad-brush legislation is put in place to deal with actual (or sometimes only perceived) anti-social behaviour issues, that ends up criminalising harmless behaviour. I suspect that the various no-alcohol schemes were introduced to deal with issues of groups gathering, getting drunk, and causing a nuisance; and that their promoters assumed that they would only be applied to such cases, not to people like OP peacefully (I assume ) sipping a can of beer between trains on a quiet platform.

The continuing closure of pubs and night-clubs means that "door security" personnel (a.k.a. bouncers) mostly became unemployed, and no doubt some have found work as on-station or on-train security, as well as high street Covid marshals etc. Some* of these people actively enjoy bossing others around, or even promote confrontation to justify their aggressive instincts, and so unnecessarily enforce rules, or invent their own, for their own satisfaction.

I suspect that in the OP's case I'd have complied even while grumbling inwardly, but I'd like to think I might have said "OK, you think drinking isn't allowed, I think it is, carry on and call BTP and if they can tell me where it says it's prohibited, I'll comply". Unfortunately that may take BTP away from something more useful, but it might make the guy in the yellow jacket less obnoxious in future.

*Definitely not all - I used to be on quite chatty terms with the regular door staff at my usual 'spoons, and they were models of restraint. On the occasions that I did see them in action, most of the other customers were relieved to see the troublemakers dispatched.

 

[al78]

A very slippery slope, this.

You're stood, patiently, quietly, not harming anyone, waiting for your train and a rent-a-thug in a hi-viz jacket walks up and, without warning, tells you to get off the station.

Would you just do as you are told?

I would probably question why but if an authority figure was persistent I don't see how I would have much choice but to comply. I don't have any power over an authoritive figure, so what can I do other than comply and follow up with a complaint to a relevant higher authority?

That guy wouldn't say anything if it was 20 football fans. Picking on a easy target I reckon.

Isn't that true of pretty much all public facing staff on the railway? It has been said on here time and time again that they will not confront a passenger, even if the passenger is clearly in the wrong, if it would likely escalate to a dangerous situation (i.e. the passenger becomes threatening and is capable of doing harm).

 

[tbwbear]

Because we don't want ill-trained "security" staff to be allowed to invent their own rules and use them to harass passengers who are behaving lawfully on a station platform?

Exactly that.

And the main “problem” is really how to ensure these people are better trained so that they can do whatever job it is they are actually there to do.

 

[Iliketrains123]

Drinking alcohol should be banned on the railways like smoking.
Transpennine at the weekend is full of drunk loud middle aged men and it's really annoying.

 

[CentralTrainer]

Drinking alcohol should be banned on the railways like smoking.
Transpennine at the weekend is full of drunk loud middle aged men and it's really annoying.

Best ban mobile phones (as the weekends are full of kids playing music at full blast through them) and it’s really annoying.

Best ban all babies and small children. As the weekend trains are full of screaming children and it’s really annoying.

Eating any food should be banned as well — the weekends are full of people with their stinking Burger King/KFC/McDonalds and it’s really annoying.

Sleeping on trains should be banned as well as evening trains are full of people asleep snoring loudly and it’s really annoying.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Best ban mobile phones (as the weekends are full of kids playing music at full blast through them) and it’s really annoying.

Doing this to the annoyance of others is already a Byelaw offence, and really does need some enforcement. Quite why staff walk past people doing it, even in the quiet coach, and say nothing I'm not quite sure.

 

[Horizon22]

Doing this to the annoyance of others is already a Byelaw offence, and really does need some enforcement. Quite why staff walk past people doing it, even in the quiet coach, and say nothing I'm not quite sure.

They probably don't want the risk of confrontation.

 

[Bletchleyite]

They probably don't want the risk of confrontation.

I wonder do the Merseyrail "rentathug" Byelaw squads enforce that particular byelaw, or just feet on seats and (per the thread) alcohol consumption?

 

[Darandio]

Drinking alcohol should be banned on the railways like smoking.
Transpennine at the weekend is full of drunk loud middle aged men and it's really annoying.

Just men is it? Sit yourself near a hen party or a group of ladies coming back from the races, equally annoying.

 

[AlterEgo]

Drinking alcohol should be banned on the railways like smoking.
Transpennine at the weekend is full of drunk loud middle aged men and it's really annoying.

No.

 

[Bletchleyite]

No.

In any case the TPE issue (and I agree it's an issue) is caused by people doing the Rail Ale Trail, which involves drinking in pubs and getting between them by train, not drinking on the train. There's a Byelaw about being intoxicated on the railway, too, and Merseyrail enforce that, most famously on "race day". Perhaps some of that is needed too - the bloke drinking one can in the corner isn't the problem.

 

[tbwbear]

In any case the TPE issue (and I agree it's an issue) is caused by people doing the Rail Ale Trail, which involves drinking in pubs and getting between them by train, not drinking on the train. There's a Byelaw about being intoxicated on the railway, too, and Merseyrail enforce that, most famously on "race day". Perhaps some of that is needed too - the bloke drinking one can in the corner isn't the problem.

Exactly - it is not the act of drinking alcohol itself that is the issue, it is the behaviour that can sometimes come with it.

We shouldn’t be trying to ban anything unless it causes harm to others.

The issue is then, of course, to define that concept of harm and probably separate it from mere irritation. That is the difficult bit.

( example - people talking loudly on a tube train when I am trying to read irritates me, but they cause no harm in the way that some one sat next to me smoking would)

Clearly nobody is harmed by an old lady sipping from a hip flask on a bus or by a guy on a station platform relaxing with a can. So it is nuts IMHO to consider banning such things.

It is the possible resultant behaviour that needs to be ( and often already is) covered by bye laws and laws.

The less we ban the better, in fact, the less laws there are the easier it is for proper law enforcement to work well.

 

[PR1Berske]

I've read the whole thread and I'm still struggling to see what the problem is. Can't you just do as you're told?

Yes. But... There is the question of legitimacy. If there is no actual penalty for drinking, being told not to is open to challenge.

Now I'm certain that living in the era we currently do it could become quite messy to open up the debate about whether one should follow every instruction, regulation, guideline, rule, clause, paragraph, and law. In this very specific case about booze on a platform, I think it's a good idea to use common sense and not always believe or follow what an "official" tells you.

 

[Iliketrains123]

Just men is it? Sit yourself near a hen party or a group of ladies coming back from the races, equally annoying.

Happened to me before on LNER. The Doncaster - Leeds portion was brutal.

In any case the TPE issue (and I agree it's an issue) is caused by people doing the Rail Ale Trail, which involves drinking in pubs and getting between them by train, not drinking on the train. There's a Byelaw about being intoxicated on the railway, too, and Merseyrail enforce that, most famously on "race day". Perhaps some of that is needed too - the bloke drinking one can in the corner isn't the problem.

I was more referring to yuppies with cans rather than the Ale trail people.

 

[Horizon22]

Blimey yuppies, its not the 1980s! Obviously intoxication and drinking alcohol are two different things. Personally its never that fun for me being on a late(r) night train with several people who have been out drinking, but such are the perils of public transport. These people won't be driving, obviously.

 

[Sprinter107]

Doing this to the annoyance of others is already a Byelaw offence, and really does need some enforcement. Quite why staff walk past people doing it, even in the quiet coach, and say nothing I'm not quite sure.

This really annoys me. Its getting more and more common on both buses and trains. I dont walk past, and will ask them to use headphones or turn it down. But if they refuse, what can I do ? I can't forcibly eject them from the train.

 

[AlterEgo]

In any case the TPE issue (and I agree it's an issue) is caused by people doing the Rail Ale Trail, which involves drinking in pubs and getting between them by train, not drinking on the train. There's a Byelaw about being intoxicated on the railway, too, and Merseyrail enforce that, most famously on "race day". Perhaps some of that is needed too - the bloke drinking one can in the corner isn't the problem.

I’d much rather that to be honest. Actual clampdowns on actual bad behaviour instead of just outright banning stuff because of the actions of a tiny minority.

 

[Horizon22]

This really annoys me. Its getting more and more common on both buses and trains. I dont walk past, and will ask them to use headphones or turn it down. But if they refuse, what can I do ? I can't forcibly eject them from the train.

I think that's part of the problem. If you've come across this scenario before, asked people to stop and they laugh in your face, there's only so many times you'll want to ask before ultimately giving up. Its unlikely to be worth the hassle to delay the train / await the BTP. I've noted an increasing lack of respect for train crew on-board trains; perhaps Covid has had a part to play in that.

 

[Bletchleyite]

This really annoys me. Its getting more and more common on both buses and trains. I dont walk past, and will ask them to use headphones or turn it down. But if they refuse, what can I do ? I can't forcibly eject them from the train.

I have asked someone to leave* the quiet coach for doing it, and got a non-quiet round of applause for doing so. I get that some people think it is acceptable in "normal" coaches (I don't) but if there's one place it definitely isn't acceptable it's there.

* I believe I politely offered "turn it off, use headphones, go into one of the however-many non-quiet coaches or I'll get the guard". Leaving was the option chosen.

 

[route101]

Quite a few young people walking off the train in Glasgow Central with cans of booze. Sometimes I have a cheeky wee can of beer on a nice day, try and keep it discreet.

 

[Sprinter107]

I have asked someone to leave* the quiet coach for doing it, and got a non-quiet round of applause for doing so. I get that some people think it is acceptable in "normal" coaches (I don't) but if there's one place it definitely isn't acceptable it's there.

* I believe I politely offered "turn it off, use headphones, go into one of the however-many non-quiet coaches or I'll get the guard". Leaving was the option chosen.

Its getting to the stage now, that more people refuse. Its an everyday occurance. I recently had a group of lads playing music so loud behined my cab, they couldn't hear the PA message I put out. When I asked them to turn it down when i stopped at the next station, they were as good as gold, and complied. Its not always that simple.
I personally don't want to listen to loud music, and other peoples conversations on speaker phone, it annoys me greatly, but there are times when I just get a torrent of abuse and they point blank refuse.
So, what do I do ? Refuse to move the train, or back down. Because I cant eject them. Same with feet on seats. I always tell them to take their feet down, but if they don't, theres not a lot i can do.

 

[Ianno87]

Quite a few young people walking off the train in Glasgow Central with cans of booze. Sometimes I have a cheeky wee can of beer on a nice day, try and keep it discreet.

i mentally inserted the words “in a” between “wee” and “beer”, which radically distorted my first interpretation of your post...!

 

[dk1]

Quite a few young people walking off the train in Glasgow Central with cans of booze. Sometimes I have a cheeky wee can of beer on a nice day, try and keep it discreet.

They seem to do it to be rebellious & have no shame. It’s all about look at me & how rude & loud I can be. I’m like you & would keep it very discreet.

 

[takno]

They seem to do it to be rebellious & have no shame. It’s all about look at me & how rude & loud I can be. I’m like you & would keep it very discreet.

I'm not really clear on why they're supposed to be ashamed of it. If I'm drinking on the train and haven't finished it by the time I arrive at my destination I'll quite happily finish up while walking through the station. I'd do the same with a can of Coke. I tend not to drink once I get off at Glasgow stations because there are often people enforcing the bye-laws, but if I didn't know about the bye-law then I probably would do.

 

[43066]

In any case the TPE issue (and I agree it's an issue) is caused by people doing the Rail Ale Trail, which involves drinking in pubs and getting between them by train, not drinking on the train. There's a Byelaw about being intoxicated on the railway, too, and Merseyrail enforce that, most famously on "race day". Perhaps some of that is needed too - the bloke drinking one can in the corner isn't the problem.

Yep. For me alcohol induced bad behaviour is much lower down the list of annoyances than the almost constant barrage of music and loud speaker phone conversations. It seems like every carriage has at least one person doing this so it’s impossible to escape from. People seem incapable of sitting quietly and respecting those around them.

Drunks can be a nightmare but tend to be limited to evenings and specific routes which can be dealt with via dry trains, enhanced BTP presence etc. if necessary. Anyone suggesting an outright ban on drinking on trains is living in cloud cuckoo land, especially when we are needing to attract people back to using the railway!