Driver took a wrong route

[startingaparty]

I'm on my usual morning train but we've ground to a halt because the driver took a wrong turn just outside Salford Crescent and was heading towards Manchester Victoria instead of Deansgate/Oxford Road/Piccadilly. I find it quite amusing but there's a lot of huffing and puffing.

I just wondered how common this sort of thing is? Its never happened to me before!

 

[TheWalrus]

Hpw can the driver take a wrong turn on a train? Surely it’s down to the signalman?

 

[dgl]

Hpw can the driver take a wrong turn on a train? Surely it’s down to the signalman?

Well some French locomotives have "steering wheels"

 

[PHILIPE]

Hpw can the driver take a wrong turn on a train? Surely it’s down to the signalman?

I'm not speculating but if the train is wrongly routed the driver should stop at the signal which indicates the route that is set and contact the signaller so joint responsibility.

 

[Southern Dvr]

Route knowledge.

A wrong route offered and taken would usually lead to disciplinary action for both the signaller and the driver.

 

[Tomnick]

Hpw can the driver take a wrong turn on a train? Surely it’s down to the signalman?

It’s down to the driver to stop and challenge a wrong route. In most cases, there’s sufficient information to be able to stop at the junction signal once you become aware. Yes, it’s the signalman’s doing initially, although it might be down to the ARS putting the route in automatically, a planning error or a train describer issue for example.

 

[dctraindriver]

Route knowledge.

A wrong route offered and taken would usually lead to disciplinary action for both the signaller and the driver.

From what I gather a signallers telling off is considerably less career threatening than a train driver. It’s a big deal from a drivers perspective.

 

[Spartacus]

In theory it should be split 50/50 when the driver's taken the route but for some reason this doesn't seemed to have happened today. Strange.

Edit: It's now been split.

 

[RichJF]

What happens (if it's possible) when there's a route divergence at speed & a finger signal where the driver doesn't have time to stop & challenge safely before the wrong route is taken?

 

[chrissawer]

Was it this train (2K51 0708 Buckshaw Parkway to Manchester Piccadilly)?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y53209/2019/02/19/advanced

If so I'm guessing it drove back to Salford Crescent and tried again.

There are a lot of trains going through Salford Crescent these days, both platforms are bi-directional and there is an avoiding line as well. I can imagine the signalling is pretty complicated. Hope the driver and signaller are ok, although it was a mistake and inconvenience, nobody was in any danger.

 

[Tomnick]

What happens (if it's possible) when there's a route divergence at speed & a finger signal where the driver doesn't have time to stop & challenge safely before the wrong route is taken?

It is possible and I know a few examples, and the driver can’t do very much in that case other than stop as quickly as possible and await events!

 

[muz379]

Wrong route offered and taken , both signaller and driver will have some explaining .

Route knowledge.

A wrong route offered and taken would usually lead to disciplinary action for both the signaller and the driver.

Disciplinary action would depend on the reasons for the incident . If it was a momentary lapse of concentration caused by some other distraction it might not, a development plan would be more appropriate . If it is a wilful violation then it might result in disciplinary .

 

[Eccles1983]

Did it go into the platform or the through road?

 

[47271]

This happened to me once on an Edinburgh-Glasgow Scotrail shuttle. It had been routed via the Fife lines at Haymarket, nothing unusual about that, it was only after the last set of crossovers we found ourselves heading towards the Forth Bridge at some speed, so I think the driver must have forgotten as well as being given the wrong road.

He had to do the walk of shame through the train and we trundled back again. It took quite a while to sort out, it must've been very disruptive to other traffic.

 

[theageofthetra]

The issue will be far more serious if the driver accepted and took a wrong route they didn't sign.

 

[Ianno87]

Was it this train (2K51 0708 Buckshaw Parkway to Manchester Piccadilly)?

http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y53209/2019/02/19/advanced

If so I'm guessing it drove back to Salford Crescent and tried again.

There are a lot of trains going through Salford Crescent these days, both platforms are bi-directional and there is an avoiding line as well. I can imagine the signalling is pretty complicated. Hope the driver and signaller are ok, although it was a mistake and inconvenience, nobody was in any danger.

And I'm sure many drivers through Salford Crescent regularly take either route, so (speculation) there may not have been that "but I shouldn't be going that way" moment in the driver's mind.

 

[Dieseldriver]

The issue will be far more serious if the driver accepted and took a wrong route they didn't sign.

It wouldn't as long as they stopped immediately beyond the junction... The worst case scenario for a wrong route is an electric train proceeding down a non electrified line.

 

[30907]

Did it go into the platform or the through road?

Looks from RTT as though it may have used the through road on the second attempt.

 

[Aictos]

It wouldn't as long as they stopped immediately beyond the junction... The worst case scenario for a wrong route is an electric train proceeding down a non electrified line.

As has actually happened on the WA a few years ago

 

[driver_m]

Circumstances play a big part. In my last wrong routing incident, neither of us were to blame. Mainly.because the controlling signaller had been given the wrong headcode due to a train failure which wasn't wiped from the Train Describer. I'll also give you an example of a number that happened during the 4 tracking on the west coast mainline at Colwich .Before the Primary Route Indicators (PRI) where installed, but after the abolition of Colwich Jn SB, you could be sent via Stone or Stafford on Greens. A driver couldn't possibly be disciplined for that as you couldn't react in good time. Rugby on the down is very tight if being wrong routed at Trent Valley Junction, it's 125 for both routes and only the PRI gives you an indication of route, so by the time you've realised, you only have two sections in which to come to a stand, and you're already in one doing 125.

 

[Andrew Nelson]

From what I gather a signallers telling off is considerably less career threatening than a train driver. It’s a big deal from a drivers perspective.

Despite it being the signaller that can set the wrong route in the first place.

 

[Tomnick]

Despite it being the signaller that can set the wrong route in the first place.

The signalman’s usually dealing with numerous trains at once though, all taking different routes, so it’s understandable that it happens from time to time. Often it’s as simple as overlooking a route that’s been left in auto, e.g. on a busy route where there’s only one train an hour that diverges at that particular junction.

I obviously understand why drivers sometimes take wrong routes too, but it is rather more serious. For example, if a driver’s failed to identify that the route has wrongly been set over a diverging route, there’s then a risk that they won’t comply with the permissible speed over that divergence.

 

[RichT54]

It wouldn't as long as they stopped immediately beyond the junction... The worst case scenario for a wrong route is an electric train proceeding down a non electrified line.

That happened at Wokingham last August, it took several hours to get the SWR train back on the third rail.

 

[computerSaysNo]

This happened to me once on an Edinburgh-Glasgow Scotrail shuttle. It had been routed via the Fife lines at Haymarket, nothing unusual about that, it was only after the last set of crossovers we found ourselves heading towards the Forth Bridge at some speed, so I think the driver must have forgotten as well as being given the wrong road.

He had to do the walk of shame through the train and we trundled back again. It took quite a while to sort out, it must've been very disruptive to other traffic.

Could the train not have been routed over the Dalmany Chord, instead of having to reverse back to Haymarket?

 

[LAX54]

Despite it being the signaller that can set the wrong route in the first place.

Lots of reasons for a wrong route, lapse of concentration for a moment, misread headcode, workload, diversion that has not be advised to Signaller, incorrect upload to ARS, service recovery after disruption, where the headcodes have been changed, which tend to be 1Gxx, which can cause confusion, but in all cases, Driver Stops: 100% Signaller code, Driver takes Signal 50/50. depending on type of wrong route, Signaller may well be removed from panel and 'screened' Timetabling does not always help, as an example there is a schedule for 4M81 ex Fxst, runs via GEML, there is also a schedule for same train same time via Haughley Jct, if the siggie misses 'CAN' on the TOPS screen, there is a chance of a wrong route being offered. Most junctions will have advance notice to driver of route set, so should be able to stop and advise Signaller, assuming he has not already twigged !

 

[theageofthetra]

It wouldn't as long as they stopped immediately beyond the junction... The worst case scenario for a wrong route is an electric train proceeding down a non electrified line.

Or down a line the stock isn't cleared for.

 

[extendedpaul]

I suspect that a lot of Joe and Josephine Public do believe that steering a train around bends is part of the driver's job. It's an understandable misconception and shouldn't be ridiculed.

 

[dk1]

It wouldn't as long as they stopped immediately beyond the junction... The worst case scenario for a wrong route is an electric train proceeding down a non electrified line.

Dragged a few back under the wires in the past. Probably the worst was a full IC set that had proceeded towards Thetford at Trowse Jcn. Easy done to be fair.

 

[Esker-pades]

In previous threads where there have been similar incidents, some drivers (I think), have said that being given a wrong route by a signaller is not a rare occurrence. But, drivers actually accepting that wrong route is rare. (Possibly because it is the driver who gets the blame?)

 

[LAX54]

Dragged a few back under the wires in the past. Probably the worst was a full IC set that had proceeded towards Thetford at Trowse Jcn. Easy done to be fair.

Ahh, remember that very well ! sadly the Signaller passed away recently, Was doing the voice comms for the Signaller's inquiry, whilst listening, was thinking, heck how far has this train gone ! ? Have to say the IC set must have got up a fair head of steam to go beyond the GPL on the Thet Line.