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Driverless trains won’t blow away Tube strikes

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jopsuk

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Other than the need to close stations to install them, and the cost involved, what stops the existing "Old" Jubilee line stations from being fitted with them? Is the small size of the platform tunnels at old tube stations an issue?

As for the Sub-Surface lines, before long they'll all be running essentially the same sort of stock. Surely SDO, with even some sort of indication that the next train won't use a set of doors, could be used on PEDs as it is on trains?

Cost is of course an issue- and ideally for safety PEDs shoudl also involve gap-free platform-train (making them a problem on tightly curving platforms- such as many of the city centre Central line stations)
 
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OxtedL

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I'm guessing that Platform Edge Doors become a much more entertaining proposition from an engineering point of view on curved platforms.
 

WestCoast

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you lot have the time so you get the figures. I dont care that the tube handles more people - you just push the problem elsewhere and if you cant see that then you really are a bit silly.

According to the 2009/10 figures, the Tube carries 3.4 million on weekdays, DLR carries 192,000 people daily. I'd say that it was a bit silly to even compare!
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PED's are just a silly idea. Full stop. If people want to kill themselves and they can t do it on the tube they move elsewhere.

Fine, but to put it crudely why should London Underground be concerned about that? They want to minimise the enormous costs in terms of delays on their network and distress after each incident.

I don't really support or denounce PEDs, but the logic presented strikes me as a bit simplistic. Especially as suicides are only half the problem, platform accidents are also an issue where people end up on the tracks not through their own choosing!
 
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Mutant Lemming

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PED's are just a silly idea. Full stop. If people want to kill themselves and they can t do it on the tube they move elsewhere.

How many one unders on the most open of light rail services in this country(DLR) that run ATO?

Or what about tram systems around the country? better or worse than the tube?

you lot have the time so you get the figures. I dont care that the tube handles more people - you just push the problem elsewhere and if you cant see that then you really are a bit silly.

PED's are about crowding issues not suicides. The Moscow Metro had platform doors from it's inception in the 30's. The London Underground carries a million more passengers a day than the rest of the country's rail network put together. The DLR is a toy railway in comparison.
 

DavyCrocket

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PED's are about crowding issues not suicides. The Moscow Metro had platform doors from it's inception in the 30's. The London Underground carries a million more passengers a day than the rest of the country's rail network put together. The DLR is a toy railway in comparison.

It's actually about air flow management to pass smokey air out and push fresh air through tunnels when needed. Heathrow also has this (if it works) but obviously not the PEDs
 

exile

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Driverless trains are inevitable but will take a lot of investment and many years. Personally as a passenger I'd prefer a guard/conductor to a driver who is locked in his/her cab It is of course true that since the trains wouldn't be unstaffed - and the network would require control staff, IT staff, revenue staff, maintenance staff etc it could never be totally immune to strike action.
 

tripleseis

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I'm guessing that Platform Edge Doors become a much more entertaining proposition from an engineering point of view on curved platforms.
Line 1 on the Paris Metro has curved platforms at Bastille station and there are PEDs at that station, so technically it isn't an issue. Anyway, I cannot see there being any real technical issues with PEDs along the entire Jubilee Line. None of the stations are like Bank for example.
 

pendolino

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Most driverless systems are built from scratch and designed as such. Every line would need to be drastically redesigned and tens of billions spent on making it as safe as say, the Lille Metro.

And wouldn't necessarily stop disruption due to strikes: "En raison d'un mouvement de grève d'une partie du personnel, le réseau Transpole est fortement perturbé" (from Transpole.fr) today, including Lille Métro with no services on Ligne 2, and not for the first time.
 

NY Yankee

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Millions of commuters face fresh misery next week as London Underground workers plan a 72-hour walkout.
The strikes, which come a week ahead of the mayoral election, stretch over four days and will involve the people who maintain and upgrade the tracks who are unhappy with negotiations over pensions and benefits.
The Rail, Maritime and Transport union, which represents around 1,000 staff on the Tube Lines contracts, said its members will walk out at 4pm on Tuesday until the same time on Friday.

RMT general secretary Bob Crow said: 'RMT members have delivered a massive mandate for action following a straightforward demand for parity with other Tube staff.
'This dispute is about justice and about ensuring that all groups of staff under the umbrella of London Underground receive the same rights and benefits, and our members have no choice but to strike to secure those basic rights.

The staff work on the Piccadilly, Northern and Jubilee lines and provide a number of services, including emergency repairs, across the entire network.

The row is over union demands for all Tube Lines staff to be allowed to join the Transport for London pension scheme and receive the same travel concessions as those who work for London Underground.
RMT officials said the strike will have a 'widespread” impact on Tube services across the network.
The announcement follows a 4-1 vote in favour of industrial action in a ballot of union members.
Colin Stanbridge, chief executive of London Chamber of Commerce, said: 'The last thing London businesses need at the minute is another Tube strike costing millions in lost business and damaging the city's reputation especially with just 100 days to go to the Olympics.
'The RMT should call off this needless strike and work to find a settlement before any damage is done.'

Mr Crow continued: 'We have gone through all the negotiating channels but Tube Lines has refused to budge and have refused to engage in meaningful talks and that pig-headed approach has raised the temperature on the shop floor and has resulted in this strike action being called.
'Former Metronet employees have been allowed back into the Transport for London pension fund and now also have the same travel facilities as other LU employees.
'Tube Lines is now a wholly owned subsidiary of Transport for London and there is simply no excuse for refusing to give equal pension and pass rights.

'The union remains ready to talk, and the strong mandate for this industrial action shows Tube Lines and TfL the depth of anger there is over this blatant lack of fairness and justice.'
Tube Lines operations director Lee Jones said: 'A strike on this issue is completely unnecessary and will not achieve anything.

'We urge the RMT leadership to end their strike threat and return to talks, as it will only be resolved through constructive discussion.

'The RMT's ballot showed that less than 44 per cent of its members voted in favour of strike action. Any action would be by maintenance staff, not Tube drivers and station staff.

'Should a strike go ahead, we have plans in place which will enable London Underground to operate Tube services on all three lines and to minimise any disruption.'
Earlier this month it was revealed that London Underground drivers could earn an extra £6,000 in bonus payments for working during the Olympics this summer.
Drivers are also in line for overtime payments, and enhanced pay packets for shifts which extend beyond 1.30am.
Previously, MPs have condemned payments to drivers as a 'bribe' and accused the unions of holding the public to ransom.
Underground drivers have been offered the latest terms by transport chiefs for a period covering nine weeks to the end of the Paralympics, according to a document seen by the Evening Standard.

A spokesman for London Mayor Boris Johnson said: 'It will come as no surprise to Londoners that, a week before the mayoral election, Ken Livingstone's RMT friend Bob Crow is trying to hit hard-working Londoners and businesses.'
Mr Livingstone's deputy mayoral running mate, Val Shawcross, said: 'The failure of Boris Johnson and the RMT to resolve their differences comes at a huge cost to Londoners. Now millions of Tube users are facing the huge inconvenience and disruption that comes with a Tube strike.
'It has been 1,444 days since Boris Johnson was elected and he has still not bothered to meet representatives of the Tube unions to discuss his manifesto promise to implement a no-strike deal.
'Boris Johnson's failure to get a grip of the Tube has led to more Tube strikes in the last four years than in the previous eight years.'
Caroline Pidgeon, Liberal Democrat chairman of London Assembly's Transport Committee, said: 'This is a dispute between Tube Lines and the RMT.

'For the RMT to try and involve innocent Tube users in an internal disagreement is totally out of order, especially given the damage it will do to London's economy.
'Both sides should get back round a table, hammer out a solution and the RMT should stop posturing.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2130917/Tube-strike-London-Underground-workers-vote-4-DAY-walkout-union-brings-misery-commuters.html?ito=feeds-newsxml

At least it's only a partial strike, and not a full system shutdown. The Metropolitan line can handle the load for the lines that will shut down. And I've never been to London, but based on the articles I've read, Boris Johnson seems like a jackass. He reminds me of NYC mayor Michael Bloomberg.
 

MidnightFlyer

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Millions of commuters face fresh misery next week as London Underground workers plan a 72-hour walkout.

...

At least it's only a partial strike, and not a full system shutdown. The Metropolitan line can handle the load for the lines that will shut down. And I've never been to London, but based on the articles I've read, Boris Johnson seems like a jackass. He reminds me of NYC mayor Michael Bloomberg.

http://www.railforums.co.uk/showthread.php?t=63690

I'm not really sure how the Met line would cater for disruption on the Piccadilly, Northern and Jubilee lines more so than any others :|, indeed the Piccadilly only interchanges with the Metropolitan line once, the Northern twice, and Jubilee thrice (though in that case all within about 8 miles).

Boris Johnson? Not so much a 'jackass'. I agree in principle with a lot of what he says; he just seems to be a bit misguiding at times. He's certainly no worse than Livingston, what a berk that man is!
 
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Clip

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Im always skeptical about people commenting on other countries politicians unless they are state leaders.

The met wont do much for the northern and Picc lines but it does interact with the Jubilee at least 3 times so it will take most of the strain from the west to the east I should imagine

And the met joins with the picc in the far west aswell from Rayners lane out so that will pick up some slack - no idea how much though
 
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jon0844

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It's fair to say that unions, which traditionally support Labour, are going to be quite vocal before any election as it's in their interest to do so.

I can't blame them.
 

Bedpan

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If I've read it right, its only the track maintenance staff who are striking, so fingers crossed there won't be disruption unless something goes wrong. .
 

Nym

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I really don't understand the negativity and reluctance to implement an efficient automatically operated train system. And please don't get me started with the PED system.

1) PED Systems are incredibally expensive, and require a total posession for at least 50 hours for two sucsessive weekends to install, not an issue for the Jubilee Extension as they where installed at construction.

2) The pre 1992 stock is shortly due for replacement, and as such may result in a different door configuration from the next gen stock that siemens is designing, I don't think we'll be seeing Bombardier again...

3) As such, when the next gen deep level stock comes into play, the deployment of this could also include the provision for PED systems on the deep level platforms.

4) ATO Still has a driver or train captain, think about human factors here and you will realise why people don't like driverless trains, especially in the English speaking European community, thanks Asimov...
 
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