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Driver's favourite rolling stock

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Richard Scott

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It's possibly down to the condition of the brake valve itself - a recently overhauled one will function better than a worn one. Also the gauges might be out slightly too! Similarly with the power controller, if there's a kink down the pipework to the governor somewhere, you can have a slow loading engine when driven from the affected end!
The braking characteristics do seem different from both ends on different locos; No.1 end consistently better than No.2. As for a 45, completely different both ends but that may be the brake valves themselves as you pointed out!
 
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Juniper Driver

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707's are most comfortable.Not so sure about seat in middle of cab.View very good,though.
Seat in middle is not so good for road learners as secondman seat on right is very cramped..(and cramped view)
Strange brake on 707 generally you don't release when braking to stop at a station...At least I don't.
707's fastest acceleration...Easy to keep to time on the Shepperton road today.
707 Train design inside is good.I've seen cycists wheel their bikes up and down inside the coaches.Can't do that on other trains.
I'm sure there are negatives I have come across about 707's but I can't think of any at the moment.
458's brakes are superior to other stocks...(455/456/444/450 altough 158/159 three step is very good as well.)
 

PudseyBearHST

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A friend who is a GWR driver told me years ago his favourites were Pacers, and that he didn't particularly like HSTs. I don't know his opinion of IETs.

I think this is one of those things where the customer and staff experience of something can be wildly different.
There are a few drivers that don’t like HSTs but I’d say they are definitely in the minority and tend to be drivers that just don’t like locomotives full stop. Regarding CrossCountry, if it’s true that drivers prefer Voyagers to HSTs, I think it’s very likely because there aren’t many diagrams that have HSTs on them so they just don’t feel as comfortable with them as they are with Voyagers which they’ll be driving day in day out.

edit: just saw 221129s post #25
 
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Halish Railway

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I remember reading a Rail article a while back (don’t crucify me for reading said magazine, I only get it occasionally :lol:) that talked about the stark differences between the Class 70 and 66, essentially saying about how the 70 gave a much rougher ride and had a very uncomfortable driver’s seat, as well as the annoyance caused when the engine would automatically shut down after a while idling when stopped.

It would be interesting to see if there are any Colas/Freightliner drivers on this forum who could clarify whether these complaints are commonplace.
 

lammergeier

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Crikey, I occasionally drive voyagers when down at the depot, and blooming hate them. Awful cab, and not particularly user friendly controller.
I suspect the drivers who prefer them to HSTs is due to some XC men not getting on HSTs often enough and therefore not getting used to the brakes.

I can imagine Voyagers are not so good if you're just pootling around a depot in them as the low down forward visibility is poor, as is the side visibility. However on the main line they're fantastic machines to drive, barely hear a bad word about the cab or how they drive from any XC drivers. You don't need to see what's 20ft in front of you at 125mph after all.

As for HST's, there are a few that don't like them but the majority of us who sign them seem to enjoy driving them. We get on them plenty enough to get used to the brakes so I'm not sure where that info came from.
It's more to do with the comfort of the cab, the fact you can get a brew or use the loo a lot easier and the fact you are more likely to get home on time.
...is the correct answer
 
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Flange Squeal

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I drive 444, 450, 455, 456 and 458. Some drivers at my depot also sign 707s and rave about them, but I've not been trained on them yet (if ever now!). My best 'all rounder' is the 450, however my ideal train would nick the 456's full-width windscreen (so what I imagine a 360 must be like) and the aforementioned braking characteristics of the 458.
 
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Kneedown

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Current traction my favorite is the HST as it is a classic and one of the dwindling number of passenger trains that have to be "driven" as opposed to operated. I also like driving 222's as they have good driver comfort and are pretty user friendly to operate. Good brakes too unless it's a bit moist out.
Least favorites are 15x's. Uncomfortable, gutless leaky things with poor driver vision.
Historically when I was on the freight side 56's were my favorite. Plenty of power and phenominal noise. 20's were my least favorite as they were umcomfortable, bouncy and rattley. Poor forward illumination at night too on the dark, dingy colliery branches we used to inhabit.
Special mention must go to 45's which I never signed, vut had plenty of drives on as a Secondman, and 50's which again I never signed, but have been lucky enough to have a couple of quality drives of. Both great locos!
 

iphone76

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I drive 315s and 345s. I must confess if you get a good 315 (which most are), they are a pleasure to drive. No continual beeping and alarms. Fewer things to go wrong. Can kick it and it works again. Lol

It‘s a credit to MTR / GA Ilford how they’ve maintained them since 2015.

Plus, just when you think their days are numbered. Boom. They come back.
 

20atthemagnet

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Driven 710/315/317/379

Worst hast to be 317. Useless traction in anything other than bone dry conditions. Motors or thyristors would pack in weekly and a hilarious WSP system that would operate when there was no slip and not operate when needed:lol:

315s absolutely bulletproof. Decent accel, nice clunky feel...just go and go, but uncomfortable to sit in anything longer than 10 minutes.

379 annoying to drive, very quick but screen flashing nonstop with faults that arent faults, and a really annoying GPS linked door system that traps everyone on board when the signal is lost :EDrivers window may aswell have been a porthole on a ship (same as the 385 someone described)

710 A 379 with a bigger window essentially....although a huge leap in ergonomics.
 

Juniper Driver

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Slammers always got out of trouble.Never failed as far as I remember...In the fifteen years I drove them

Some other stock I have driven has failed apart from 158 and 456...oh and 444/458/707 (touchwood)
Had 159002 fail on me at Woking last year.My first outright 159 failure in 20 years on them but I don't drive them all the time...450/455..

442's had the worst record....still.
 

Mintona

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I miss driving proper HSTs. Haven’t done so for over a year and doubt I ever will again. Their short formed sisters are ok but not the same, and it’s been months since I had a go on one. 800s are alright. Thought they were a bit dull to begin with but there is certainly still an art to driving them well. It’s easy to drive one badly but takes more skill to do it well. I guess that’s the same for all traction really.

I used to quite enjoy rattling around south east London on 375s and 465s but those days are long behind me now.
 

hexagon789

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As I remember the curved glass was replaced with flat glass - no changes to how the visibility was affected by the size of the windows and gangway. It wasn't a redesign of the cab or a "second time round" really.

Exactly that, the glass on the secondman's side remains the original curved glass though, so you can see the difference
 

Fincra5

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Out of the limited Traction I drive, 377s and 313s, a 313 wins.

Yes they're older but simpler with it, no TMS to tell you the Toilet is out etc, Nice sound, feels more involved as it's seperate Power/ Brake Handles... (Plus you have a guard).

Back when I was training, 442s were my favourite.
 

irish_rail

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I miss driving proper HSTs. Haven’t done so for over a year and doubt I ever will again. Their short formed sisters are ok but not the same, and it’s been months since I had a go on one. 800s are alright. Thought they were a bit dull to begin with but there is certainly still an art to driving them well. It’s easy to drive one badly but takes more skill to do it well. I guess that’s the same for all traction really.

I used to quite enjoy rattling around south east London on 375s and 465s but those days are long behind me now.
Totally agree. Sone drivers are awful on 802s, whack open the power , whack it off, harsh brake etc. All fine when driving a HST because of the way the power and brake are smoothly applied but on 800s gives a very unsatisfying jerky ride.
 

hexagon789

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Out of the limited Traction I drive, 377s and 313s, a 313 wins.

Yes they're older but simpler with it, no TMS to tell you the Toilet is out etc, Nice sound, feels more involved as it's seperate Power/ Brake Handles... (Plus you have a guard).

Back when I was training, 442s were my favourite.

Is it just the camshaft control is more satisfying and involving than the much more user-friendly thyristor/chopper etc modern systems?

I get the impression good number of drivers seem to have a thing for old camshaft control from previous threads on this site and others, so there must be something about it.
 

Mitchell Hurd

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I’m not a driver, but I was listening to a conversation between a driver manager and driver during a cab ride a few weeks before lockdown. He said his favourite is by far 16x (this was GWR), due to being simple to operate, without loads of complicated gimmicks, and having a nice windscreen with good visibility. I’m presuming this was in comparison to all other GWR stock, but he definitely mentioned 150s, IETs, HSTs and 387s.

Given the thread, it would be better for me to say that I'm a passenger ;)! I wondered why I've rarely seen or heard of problems with the Turbos - no matter what people might say about them, I'm pleased they're staying!
 

Fincra5

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Is it just the camshaft control is more satisfying and involving than the much more user-friendly thyristor/chopper etc modern systems?

I get the impression good number of drivers seem to have a thing for old camshaft control from previous threads on this site and others, so there must be something about it.

I guess! Makes it more of a skill to drive, especially when it comes to Gradients! The clucking noise of a Camshaft is pleasant.
 
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Class 143 and Class 185 are my favourite traction that i have driven in the past, prefer Class 195 and 331 to Class 156 and 319 due to water features in Cab of 156 and rubbish legroom in both.
 

coxxy

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142's hands down. You know what your getting and if anything goes wrong you can either fix it or know its knackered within 5 minutes. No complicated TMS and everything where you'd expect.

In leaf fall.. anything but a 142.
 

O L Leigh

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I'm not a huge fan of Voyagers. Yes they have good acceleration and reasonable brakes, but the cab is appalling. I was told that they were designed with the input of a driver, but if that's true he must have been built like an orangutan. I need to put the seat all the way back to be comfortable with the CPBC but then it puts other controls, such as the wipers, out of reach. The door release buttons are at a cack-handed angle that requires twisting the wrist to operate or reaching right across yourself with the opposite hand, and the air-suspension seat won't stay where I put it but instead keeps rising up as I'm travelling along. I also find them stuffy due to the lack of fresh air and the total reliance on A/C. There's always the same combination of faults shown on the TMS (usually down to faulty sensors, I presume) and some controls, such as the PA/intercom buttons, are hidden behind things and so are not visible. I'm far happier in a Cl170 where I can have the window open, the seat stays put and everything is within reach.

I used to like Cl317s and Cl315s, but particularly the Cl315s. Both classes had their negative points, but they were simple, rugged and easy to use. The Cl317's comedy WSP system has already been mentioned, but I found that provided an interesting driving challenge. Those units really responded well to a slightly more subtle approach and intelligent use of the power handle. But the most fun I had was in Cl315s. The later build units with GEC (?) equipment in particular were good fun to drive because the traction interlock relay was good and loud so that you knew immediately when you made/lost interlock. Plus I could easily drown out the station PA at Liv St on a Cl315 by rolling in on a Step 1 brake in order to get a really loud squeal.
 

InOban

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I think that's fairly sad in a way. I honestly can't think of one occasion where I've thought "man, I wish I didn't have a guard." Conversely, I can't count the number of times where a guard has been invaluable, particularly during disruption or if a passenger falls ill. Yes, there are some guards that are better than others, same as any grade, but I've never met one so utterly dire I'd rather be DOO.
Surely you mean an appropriately trained OBS, not necessarily a guard as traditionally defined. Isn't the ability of the driver to operate the doors while someone else deals with an onboard disruption an advantage?
 

Mitchell Hurd

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142's hands down. You know what your getting and if anything goes wrong you can either fix it or know its knackered within 5 minutes. No complicated TMS and everything where you'd expect.

In leaf fall.. anything but a 142.

No wonder these and other Pacers have lasted a while!
 

hexagon789

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I guess! Makes it more of a skill to drive, especially when it comes to Gradients! The clucking noise of a Camshaft is pleasant.

Seen a few can views of 86/87s and the tap-changer looks mighty satisfying with also those loud clunks as the loco notches up and down through the taps!
 

FordFocus

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Turbostars are my favourite but have their faults.

Pros:
  • DSD is ergonomic (compared to BR stock)
  • Window within reach and inline with the seat
  • Good vision
  • No TMS... they had MITRAC fitted but that was a diagnostic system that had zero affect on the operation. It was removed in the end..
  • Holds it's air well
  • Cab door unlike some 15x stock
  • All controls within easy reach
  • Some have capabilities of 'Cross Feeding' power (including 3 phase) if one vehicle engine shuts down.
  • Step 3 and Emergency Brakes excellent
  • Good seating position, our seats are slowly been replaced with a upgraded version
Cons:
  • The cab HVAC can be iffy, especially in the summer. To reset them involves a hex key to unsecure the bolts to get to the reset panel.
  • Wind noise at high speed because the door seals that regularly perish.
  • Panels are loose fitting
  • Engines are underpowered. Need another 100hp at least. 172s have bigger engines or "Powerpacks" as Bombardier calls them..
  • Transmission can take an age to change direction on some units
  • Engine software can throw up random errors
  • (172s only) Awful gearbox at low speeds and lack of coasting ability. Poor suspension at high speed and "Powerpacks" that constantly need resetting.
 

Driver2B

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Starting with my favourite in descending order:

458s! (love 'em!)
+ comfortable seated position
+ good view
+ strong brake
+ comfortable and responsive PBC
however:
-a slightly lower minimum braking position would be good, though, to prevent needing to release sometimes
-TMS is a nightmare!
-and traction units fail too much these day

707s
+ really comfortable and really easy to adjust furniture to get comfortable
+ amazing view of the world
+ great accelleration
+ so much of the cab sets itself up
however:
- horrific brake (all the speed that you make up in quick accelleration, you loose in early braking!)
- horrendous seat, position and view for secondman

455s
+ good view
+ easy to control
+ easy to get comfortable seated position
however:
- roller blinds in 2020? seriously?!

456s
+ great view
+ easy to control
however:
- cramped cab especially with a drivers bag
- small DSD means not always comfortable
- AWS button on left is inconvenient for right-handed drivers

444s/450s
- horrendous things - hate them!
- you got to keep them under control or they'll control you!
- terrible view
- very cramped
 

craigybagel

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Given the thread, it would be better for me to say that I'm a passenger ;)! I wondered why I've rarely seen or heard of problems with the Turbos - no matter what people might say about them, I'm pleased they're staying!

One thing I'd love to know from a Turbo driver - how good are the engines on them? We have the same Perkins engines on all our 158s and they're awful - in most of them you have no power at all until you get to notch 5. Very hard to control at low speeds without the engine revs going up and down like mad - I always feel very self conscious dealing with the 10mph through New Street! :oops:

According to a driver I was talking to the other day it's impossible to get comfortable on 158s if you're short too.

6 hours in the seat of a 150 over the course of the day starts to add up for me, particularly if you get one of the ones where the seat isn't that easy to adjust. I agree 153s are surprisingly comfortable and it's nice to have everything just there around you, it's all in easy reach! They can be a pain to key in and out of with the angle but that's a really minor point. I like driving 175s and the aircon is great in the summer but they're unreliable in the winter in terms of heating.

Overall, 158s are my least favourite by some margin and they're a pain to get into when dead sometimes. I'd say 150s and 175s are about equal with different pluses and minuses to each.

Glad to know it's not just me then :lol: yes, the 175 cab Aircon is a law unto itself - it's the one thing 158sv are good at, having a decent heater in winter and very powerful Aircon (but only in the cab!) in summer. Still much prefer 175s though.
 

peakNed

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Out of the units I've driven I definitely preferred 465s, they're simple, they're responsive, and they perform pretty damn well when driven properly.
Although they're quick when they get going and have pretty decent brakes, 376s seem slow to do anything and the mitrac system can be a pita constantly bleeping and coming up with irellevant faults.

Out of the locos I've driven 59s have got to be at the top of the list, powerful and well built, an absolute pleasure to drive. The flat desk in the cab means you can have your brew easily to hand as well, it's the little things :lol:
66s are ok, reliable and do the job pretty well, but they were built on the cheap, are noisy and everything in the cabs seems to rattle...
I also sign 60s, they seem like good locos but I've not been able to drive one on a train yet.
 

ainsworth74

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The question posed at the start of this thread was simple (and the answers interesting!) and it does not include provision for a discussion about DOO/DCO or other related matters dragging us miles off-topic. As such those posts have been deleted. I would like to say that I was pleased to see that everyone managed to remain civil (seriously, thank you!) but it is still off-topic.

Thanks :)
 
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