Drug users on the train

[startingaparty]

I was on the train home from work this afternoon and there was a couple sitting close by in the same carriage. I noticed one of them took something from the other and went off to the toilet and came back all spaced out. They then slunched into their seat, as did the other person, and lit a cigarette on the train and began to fall asleep. I can only assume they put the cigarette out but was there was noticable wafts of smoke. They were then asleep for the entire time I was travelling and intermittently coughed and spluttered. At that point, I went and stood up in the vestibule until my stop. What should I have done in this situation? Would reporting this to the BTP have resulted in my train being delayed? To be honest, I just wanted to get home and didn't fancy the train having to stop somewhere and wait for them to arrive but it made me feel so uncomfortable in the current circumstances. I don't like touching surfaces at the minute so didn't even feel like opening the door between the carriages to move to the next one.

 

[221129]

Text the BTP on 61016 and move away from the people. If you cant be bothered to do either of those then it cant have bothered you that much.

 

[GRALISTAIR]

Definitely a little scary

 

[LancasterRed]

Text 61016, and if your texting service won't let you (as has happened to me) fire out an email, they respond efficiently

 

[father_jack]

With "no challenge" gatelines and no onboard checks it sometimes seems that at the moment the railway runs only for those described by the OP, either to buy or deliver drugs or to just spin around and to take drugs.

 

[Liverpool 507]

I was on the train home from work this afternoon and there was a couple sitting close by in the same carriage. I noticed one of them took something from the other and went off to the toilet and came back all spaced out. They then slunched into their seat, as did the other person, and lit a cigarette on the train and began to fall asleep. I can only assume they put the cigarette out but was there was noticable wafts of smoke. They were then asleep for the entire time I was travelling and intermittently coughed and spluttered. At that point, I went and stood up in the vestibule until my stop. What should I have done in this situation? Would reporting this to the BTP have resulted in my train being delayed? To be honest, I just wanted to get home and didn't fancy the train having to stop somewhere and wait for them to arrive but it made me feel so uncomfortable in the current circumstances. I don't like touching surfaces at the minute so didn't even feel like opening the door between the carriages to move to the next one.

You should have also made the train crew aware of this.

 

[fgwrich]

Definitely text or call it in to the BTP. It's unlikely that it would result in you having your train delayed, unless it was at a major station where there is a BTP Office and could attend. They will be able to some details from you e.g a description of the persons involved and will use this as intel to build up a bigger picture, for example patrols on the service or services, whether this is just people using on the train (still an offence and breach of the bylaws) or if the person or persons is involved in the supply of drugs. So I would definitely urge you to text this one in - even if your not still on the train (CCTV will still be available).

 

[185]

You should have also made the train crew aware of this.

But.. those two were the traincrew...

No, in all seriousness there seems to be a marked increase in antisocial behaviour such as this recently since the reduction in revenue checking / ticket checks and as such the passengers are now becoming more the eyes and ears of train companies. Certainly contact BTP, however also consider notifying the relevant train company's Twitter - they have the option of making direct, and reasonably quick contact with traincrew onboard, or in Driver-only areas, trying to alert station or security staff en-route ahead of the train.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

You should have also made the train crew aware of this.

this ^

AS a train manager it really bugs me when something is amiss on my train but the first I find out about it is when the complainant disembarks off the train or when an email from customer services or my manager asking me for a report. By which point its far too late to do anything. as I have always said on this forum if I don't know about it, I cannot do anything about it. Informing the traincrew on board the train should always be the first port of call or if the train crew cannot be found send a message to the customer services (Twitter, Whatsapp etc) or British transport police text number 61016 if needed. Such a statement is usually made on the train PA after every stop and contact details are always on display on the carriage info screens or posters.

See it, say it, we will sort it, but only if we know about it. I will certainly not tolerate such behaviour on my train.

 

[SlimJim1694]

Every day occurrence on DOO routes in South London. Stations are unstaffed and there are no guards. Been going on decades. If the police or the TOCs were genuinely interested in dealing with it I'm sure they would have done so before now. It's the same with the beggars. Day in, day out, same old faces, same old tired stories.

 

[yorkie]

Every day occurrence on DOO routes in South London. Stations are unstaffed and there are no guards...

Let's not bring the method of operation into this; it's nothing to do with whether there is a Guard on the train.

The best deterrent for this type of behaviour is a member of staff regularly patrolling the train; that person could be an On Board Manager/Supervisor, Travelling Ticket Inspector or any other grade.

For example, if I take a TPE train on an evening (or most TPE trains right now due to the virus situation) there is likely to be no visible staff presence, yet the DOO trains in the Glasgow area that I've been on have a very visible staff presence (I've no idea if that's the case now or not though).

Anyway as others have said, report to BTP and train crew.

 

[221129]

Let's not bring the method of operation into this; it's nothing to do with whether there is a Guard on the train.

The best deterrent for this type of behaviour is a member of staff regularly patrolling the train; that person could be an On Board Manager/Supervisor, Travelling Ticket Inspector or any other grade.

For example, if I take a TPE train on an evening (or most TPE trains right now due to the virus situation) there is likely to be no visible staff presence, yet the DOO trains in the Glasgow area that I've been on have a very visible staff presence (I've no idea if that's the case now or not though).

Anyway as others have said, report to BTP and train crew.

Except all TOCs have instructed staff not to patrol the train during these times.

 

[fishquinn]

Except all TOCs have instructed staff not to patrol the train during these times.

Is that the case? I’ve seen many staff from various TOCs still walking up and down the train (and two on board ticket checks from different TOCs) but surely this wouldn’t happen if they were instructed not to. To be fair the majority of guards have just made an announcement to say where they can be found if anyone needs them and stayed put but the odd few have wandered down to make a presence and confirm everything’s ok

 

[221129]

Is that the case? I’ve seen many staff from various TOCs still walking up and down the train (and two on board ticket checks from different TOCs) but surely this wouldn’t happen if they were instructed not to. To be fair the majority of guards have just made an announcement to say where they can be found if anyone needs them and stayed put but the odd few have wandered down to make a presence and confirm everything’s ok

Every TOC that I am aware of (I've not heard of any that have not) have instructed staff not to check tickets on board or go through the train. However if individuals choose to ignore those instructions then that's up to them really.

 

[fishquinn]

Every TOC that I am aware of (I've not heard of any that have not) have instructed staff not to check tickets on board or go through the train. However if individuals choose to ignore those instructions then that's up to them really.

I guess in the current situation that’s the best they really can do, I’m definitely not against staff making a presence to confirm everything’s alright (because sometimes that’s the only way to find out there is a problem)

 

[Bletchleyite]

Definitely a job for 61016.

I've seen dope being smoked on late night Merseyrail before, though, while it's unpleasant it tends not to be a drug that causes people to behave in a threatening manner. It was actually being handed around, believe it or not! The only time I've ever felt genuinely scared due to this kind of thing was when, in the late 90s, an obviously drug-addled person darted out of the bog and onto the platform of a soon-to-depart RegionalExpress (tatty old Silberling coaches didn't add to the feeling of safety) with the needle of whatever it was still hanging out of his arm.

 

[tetudo boy]

You must call 61016 (British Transport Police phone number) if you find something like this. It may seem like an annoying number to call since it is mentioned everywhere but honestly, I've heard people say that they are really reliable. Even if there is no guard on the train, BTP will still be reliable.

 

[gimmea50anyday]

You cannot call 61016, it is a text messaging service. The phone number is 0800 405040

However, I have found better and more reliable response by texting in than by phoning, it’s discrete so is great to make contact without raising suspicion, they respond very quickly and it’s easy to relay the facts to them

 

[tetudo boy]

You cannot call 61016, it is a text messaging service. The phone number is 0800 405040

However, I have found better and more reliable response by texting in than by phoning, it’s discrete so is great to make contact without raising suspicion, they respond very quickly and it’s easy to relay the facts to them

Oh, sorry, I mistook it for a phone number. It's probably because I'm kinda forgetting about the BTP since I don't really get out much these days due to COVID.

 

[Horizon22]

I guess in the current situation that’s the best they really can do, I’m definitely not against staff making a presence to confirm everything’s alright (because sometimes that’s the only way to find out there is a problem)

Indeed and that's fair for personal health and safety of course. The problem is that it causes wider safety issues such as the incidents that the OP describes. Some are taking liberties with many gatelines being open and limited ticket checks. As I said, we understand why these are being done but it causing a rise in anti-social behaviour and hopefully revenue duties resume in coming weeks as restrictions decreases.

Slightly off-topic, so on the point at hand a) if possible alert the train crew, b) contact BTP via methods listed, c) if it gets really serious phone 999, use the passcom.

 

[Bald Rick]

The last train from Euston to Wolves on a Friday / Saturday night was always ‘fun’ for this. Most memorably (in pre-Pendolino days) an entire non-league football team in first class, suited and booted having been at Epsom for the Derby as their end of season party, chopping their way through a rather large bag of Charlie on the way back. They managed to keep it out of the way of the law patrolling the train too! I had to pretend to be asleep in the corner (off duty obviously, and in no condition anyway due to a day at the cricket).

 

[LowLevel]

Every TOC that I am aware of (I've not heard of any that have not) have instructed staff not to check tickets on board or go through the train. However if individuals choose to ignore those instructions then that's up to them really.

We are still required to undertake security checks/make sure toilets are correctly functioning/answer any questions that may be addressed to us on the way past. It basically involves a quick walk through every half an hour or so. We also have to undertake long train/short platform "local door" procedure which involves walking through the train to the front door. Slam door HST sets require numerous dispatch positions within the passenger accommodation.

As for spice heads or other unsavoury types along those lines, please tell the train crew. I find them particularly offensive and lighting up a cigarette in the saloon has never yet ended well for anyone.

 

[SlimJim1694]

As a DOO driver myself I'd genuinely be very interested in people's thoughts on this.

I've laid it out in a kind of "You Are The Ref" format to make it easier.

1) You have just moved to the area and are on a DOO train in SE London or north Kent passing through unstaffed stations and you see the behaviour described by the OP. You decide to follow the advice of many of the posters above and ALERT THE TRAIN CREW. How would you do it?

A) operate a passcom.
B) make your way to the front of the train and tap on the drivers window.
C) other (please specify).

2) You now have the drivers attention. What would you like the driver to do about it?

A) go back and try to chuck them off on his/her own.
B) call the police.
C) reassure you that it's perfectly normal on this line of route.
D) other (please specify)

3) How long are you prepared to have your journey delayed for while waiting for the police/drug users to be thrown off/driver to reset the passcom?

A) not prepared to have journey delayed.
B) up to 10 minutes.
C) longer (please specify).

4) A few days later you are on the same line and you see further drug use and antisocial behaviour (quite possibly the same individuals who, it occurs to you, might remember your face as the person who grassed them up the other day). What do you do?

A) repeat this sequence from step 1.
B) text BTP or tweet the TOC.
C) ignore it.
D) other (please specify)

 

[ComUtoR]

How does texting the BTP help ?

If there is an immediate risk to passengers they are not there to help. In my experience, they are unlikely to turn up and meet the train at the station and, at best, are only available at the London end terminal.

Crime and anti-social behaviour is higher where there is nobody to challenge them.

 

[DarloRich]

How does texting the BTP help ?

If there is an immediate risk to passengers they are not there to help. In my experience, they are unlikely to turn up and meet the train at the station and, at best, are only available at the London end terminal.

Crime and anti-social behaviour is higher where there is nobody to challenge them.

I know I am a big northern bloke and not easily intimidated by people. I further understand not everyone is the same as me or has had the same experiences so what is a threat or a worry to me might be something much worse to others. These are my views and not suggestive of how others should or would behave.

I think if saw someone having a splifter on a train and it wasn't harming me I would just turn a blind eye tbh. It isnt a threat to me and it isnt scary. It is fairly low on the list of drug offences. If I was feeling really grumpy or I didn't like the look of the person partaking I might text BTP.


If as described above I saw someone injecting or rushing off the train with a needle in their arm I would ring 999. They might need medical help very soon.

As an aside I will say I have made complaints by text to BTP before and they have come to the train on occasion. That hasn't been at the London end. They are constrained by manpower issues the same as every police force in the UK ( who knew cutting police numbers might be an issue? ) so have to prioritize and someone having a splifter on the train is not a priority.

 

[SlimJim1694]

How does texting the BTP help ?

If there is an immediate risk to passengers they are not there to help. In my experience, they are unlikely to turn up and meet the train at the station and, at best, are only available at the London end terminal.

Crime and anti-social behaviour is higher where there is nobody to challenge them.

Eyewitness (the internal reporting app) is another one. I've reported drug dealing, drug use, antisocial behaviour etc using the iPad when we first got them. About three days later I'd get an email back saying I should have reported it to the police at the time. I mentioned this to my DM who agreed with my inkling that drivers who shut the job down for such things would be making a name for themselves very quickly and a rod for their own backs. I haven't opened the app since.

 

[LowLevel]

Texting BTP is helpful because it builds a profile of where there might be issues to be targeted. They might not always be able to attend but if they're getting regular texts about the local scroats using a particular unmanned station as a drinking den or the county lines cretins misbehaving they can make a better case for patrolling.

Texting is much better than going through the control room in my experience.

Regardless of what they might or might not do blatant drug use on a train is entirely BTP's problem, it is what they are paid to resolve - IE criminality on the railway network, rather than being called out to silly disagreements over Mrs Miggin's super biddy advance saver ticket being for a train two minutes before. It needs reporting otherwise they don't have anyway of knowing what is happening.

If the stats show the crackheads are constantly playing up on whichever route then the pressure builds via the stats and more senior officers who don't like bad stats to deal with them.

 

[DarloRich]

Texting BTP is helpful because it builds a profile of where there might be issues to be targeted. They might not always be able to attend but if they're getting regular texts about the local scroats using a particular unmanned station as a drinking den or the county lines cretins misbehaving they can make a better case for patrolling.

Texting is much better than going through the control room in my experience.

Regardless of what they might or might not do blatant drug use on a train is entirely BTP's problem, it is what they are paid to resolve - IE criminality on the railway network, rather than being called out to silly disagreements over Mrs Miggin's super biddy advance saver ticket being for a train two minutes before. It needs reporting otherwise they don't have anyway of knowing what is happening.

If the stats show the crackheads are constantly playing up on whichever route then the pressure builds via the stats and more senior officers who don't like bad stats to deal with them.

So cynical. So accurate.

 

[LowLevel]

So cynical. So accurate.

Years of dealing with them and building a rapport with local officers

They do care but when you're in a wide spread and under manned police force intelligence is the most valuable thing going.

We have quite a good track record with getting rid of some serious wronguns through guards effectively spying on them and building up a pattern of movements to pass to BTP who then sting them. No one ever suspects that the person who doesn't seem that bothered about people evading their £3.00 fare is actually providing regular updates on movements and even images and footage to the police on the quiet. Sex offenders, drugs mules, all in a day's work. We aren't as daft as we look

 

[michael74]

Its like at work and the culture of incident reporting. Filling out an incident form is not just about reporting the accident for it to be investigated, its also about trends, if trends are not seen then aside from Mystic Meg and her Ball how are people to know there are possible issues that need dealing with. All too often I hear at work, I don't fill out forms nothing gets done... Well it won't if you don't....