Drug users on the train

[Bletchleyite]

Smoke detectors seem to differ in sensitivity. When our 158 toilets were fitted with them if you pressed the test button they would work,but you could smell somebody smoking in the toilet and the alarm remained silent. Same on IETs,you can smell the cigarette smoke coming from the toilet but no alarm! Overcook the steak in the galley and all hell breaks loose .

Smoke detectors are (were) generally designed not to pick up cigarette smoke, because they have (had) to be usable in places where smoking is allowed. The smoke from burnt food is far, far thicker.

I'm surprised the galley one isn't a heat detector (which I think detect sharp, large and sustained changes in temperature as would occur with a fire - certainly, opening the oven door doesn't set mine off), as these are the norm in kitchens.

 

[Llanigraham]

Some of the above posts, while well meaning, make me wonder if we all live on the same planet... report this, report that, text this, tweet that... they'll build a case and target them....

I have lived and worked in the SE metro area for most of my life and nobody has ever done anything serious about it. It's been like this and has been reported for decades.

All the "report it" people please come and spend a few hours travelling up and down between Penge and Brixton (you'll see the same beggars weve seen for years) and on the north Kent line between London and Gravesend and report that. It's been going on for decades. The see it, say it, sorted nonsense just does not wash.n

Sorry to sound harsh but I really think we live in a different world to the rest of the country who has all these active guards and responsive police forces. Down here its every passenger for themselves.

Can I suggest you read the comments again.
What many are saying that reporting these incidents result in a picture emerging, showing where things are happening. Once that picture is formed can action be taken. And that is exactly what happens; see the number of drug raids that take place, or the cannabis factories closed down, or the "county lines" mules caught. No-one has implied that immediate action is taking place.

 

[Tom Quinne]

I’m afraid I’ve come to the conclusion that is getting harder to report crime so you give up. 35 minutes on 101 to report suspected drug dealing a few days ago, that’s 35 minutes of my life I won’t get back, was rhe call handler interested?

Nope, “unless we have names or addresses we can’t really do anything” I kid you not.

The harder it is to report, the less people will report, less crime reported equals targets being met and crime going down.

Big pats on the back at the Chief Officers Home Office meetings and the CC get his or her ladyship or lordship when they retire.

Unless you can hand over a file of evidence with DNA sample (I’m joking) the police aren’t interested.

Im a former copper, a sad sad state.

 

[O L Leigh]

It's not related to the method of operation though. It's directly related to a visible staff presence. I agree that there isn't anywhere else that has such a visible on board staff presence as the Glasgow electrics, but some lines do see regular patrols by OBMs/OBSs/Guards while others do not.

And not all lines that have Guards see regular patrolling of the train. The person patrolling the train does not need to be involved in the operation of it to be visible; indeed as you correctly say the most visible staff do not get involved in the operation of the train .

I'm sorry, old friend. But it is.

I agree that it's due to visible staff presence in the train acting as a deterrent, and on most DOO routes that presence is entirely absent. I agree too that not all guards patrol the train on a regular basis, but the fact that there even is a guard who might patrol the train acts as a deterrent. Where such visible staff are entirely absent the deterrent also is entirely absent. Ergo, the method of operation does have a bearing on your likelihood of witnessing criminal/anti-social behaviour on any given train.

And this is backed up by anecdotal evidence (listens for Mail on Sundays thrown down in umbrage). I've experienced both methods of working for about the same amount of time and the instances of criminal damage to the train and low-level anti-social behaviour such as smoking is far lower when working with a guard compared to working without one.

 

[yorkie]

I don't see how this is directly linked to the method of operation of the train; a visible staff presence is what acts as a deterrent. We will have to agree to disagree!

If you have some evidence that anti-social behaviour is more likely with an OBM/OBS/TTI who isn't involved in the operation of the train, than a Guard, I'd be curious to see it.

 

[O L Leigh]

The majority of DOO services do not run with an OBM/OBS/TTI/whatever. They run with a driver and no-one else. If you do get "grippers" on-board they generally only travel a certain distance and then get off again. Therefore you do not have an on-board presence to discourage criminal or anti-social activities.

 

[yorkie]

I don't see how that disagrees with what I said.

 

[O L Leigh]

We agree that a key means of reducing criminal or anti-social behaviour is the presence of a second person on the train.

Where we disagree is because you're trying to compare DOO with a second person onboard in a non-safety critical role to services with guards, and that is not what I'm trying to point out. What I'm trying to say is that a significant proportion of DOO services do not have this second person onboard. They only have a driver who is, by necessity, locked away in a little cupboard at the front of the train where they can't be seen, leaving the passengers unlikely to encounter another member of staff.

 

[yorkie]

It's the presence of visible staff that makes the difference; not how the train is operated.

If you agree, great. If not, I agree to disagree.

 

[zn1]

its been going on for years ..most are discreet when they go and get their discreet fix or sniff ,( I dont agree with Boiling up and needle use on a train lavvy thats just out of order).......as has regular mile a minute shags in the lavs ...aircraft have the mile high club, HST, 390 and the 225s etc have the Mile a min club

 

[O L Leigh]

It's the presence of visible staff that makes the difference; not how the train is operated.

If you agree, great. If not, I agree to disagree.

I'm finding your logic baffling.

For the record, I haven't offered to agree to disagree.

 

[yorkie]

Well I personally think that it's a visible staff presence that makes a difference in this area.

It's up to people if they agree, disagree, or are baffled without agreeing nor disagreeing

 

[61653 HTAFC]

its been going on for years ..most are discreet when they go and get their discreet fix or sniff ,( I dont agree with Boiling up and needle use on a train lavvy thats just out of order).......as has regular mile a minute shags in the lavs ...aircraft have the mile high club, HST, 390 and the 225s etc have the Mile a min club

This is very true... in Victorian times there were probably occasional issues with opium or laudanum use... but with enclosed compartments there's no escape and no chance of staff discovering the activity!

Also you forgot the Eurostar version, the "Mile-low club"!

 

[Ashley Hill]

Also you forgot the Eurostar version, the "Mile-low club"!

On HSTs there was also the 125 club. David Maxey also used to refer to the BBC. I'll let you work that one out

 

[Sprinter107]

The last train from Birmingham to Worcester usually has it's fair share of drunks and the occasional weed user. More scary is seeing young kids waiting at quite respectable places for the drug suppliers to arrive by train, anytime of evening.......

Thats a vile train.

 

[peteb]

Thats a vile train.

Quite agree. I've never understood why they dont run it fast to Stourbridge Junction as most passengers are heading to Kidderminster or Worcester. Late night stoppers can be a bit of a playground with people hopping on and off before tickets checked.

 

[Sprinter107]

Quite agree. I've never understood why they dont run it fast to Stourbridge Junction as most passengers are heading to Kidderminster or Worcester. Late night stoppers can be a bit of a playground with people hopping on and off before tickets checked.

To be honest, there seems to be more trouble between Stourbridge and Worcester.

 

[trentside]

Ultimately, late trains are late trains. Even if you made it run non-stop to Stourbridge Junction you’d still get trouble on there sometimes. Without strong BTP enforcement of the bylaws you won’t stop problems on trains like that easily.

 

[Sprinter107]

Ultimately, late trains are late trains. Even if you made it run non-stop to Stourbridge Junction you’d still get trouble on there sometimes. Without strong BTP enforcement of the bylaws you won’t stop problems on trains like that easily.

The trouble isnt between Birmingham and Stoutbridge. Its worse between Stourbridge and Worcester.

 

[trentside]

The trouble isnt between Birmingham and Stoutbridge. Its worse between Stourbridge and Worcester.

I was going off @peteb post. I’ve only travelled on that route in the day never at night so can’t comment on the actual situation. Just giving my opinion on problem late night trains as a whole.

 

[peteb]

I was going off @peteb post. I’ve only travelled on that route in the day never at night so can’t comment on the actual situation. Just giving my opinion on problem late night trains as a whole.

Well I only go as far as Kidderminster and in the dozens of times I've caught that train it always seems to have more than its fair share of drunks and others behaving in, shall we say, a less than adult manner. But appreciate this is now off topic......