Drunken former banker punches rail passenger over laptop bag

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aformeruser

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If you've haven't guessed from the title the story has come from the Daily Mail

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...belted-man-laptop-bag-seat.html#ixzz1p63UuzR9
A drunken company director left a commuter permanently scarred after a 'seat rage' attack on a late-night train.
Financial consultant Kevin Fowler, 45, punched the passenger when a dispute arose over the laptop bag he had placed on a seat.
When questioned by police after a night in a cell, Fowler declared: 'I'm a middle-aged, middle-class bloke standing up for the rights of rail travellers, who have a right to use a seat.'
Fowler, of Goring-by-Sea, Worthing, was convicted of assaulting 38-year-old account manager Adrian Farthing on August 4 last year.
He was sentenced to a 12-month community order, which includes 200 hours' community service, and ordered to pay £1,500 compensation to the victim and £550 costs.
Mr Farthing, from Brighton, who was left with a deep cut below his eye, told Croydon Magistrates' Court that he was sitting on a train at London Bridge Station at 11.15pm.
'A gentleman came in, picked up my leather laptop bag and threw it on to my lap,' he told the court.
'He said he had a ticket and every right to sit there. He threatened me with words along the lines of: "You'd better shut up before I shut you up".
'I laughed and turned away, which may have inflamed the situation and provoked him into hitting me over the head.
There was a blow and I was knocked forward and must have hit the tray in front of me to cause the cut on my face. He was very, very drunk, his words were slurry and he was very, very rude and arrogant.'
Mr Farthing added: 'I asked him why he was being so rude and we had an argument about why he was being so rude.
'I agreed he had every right to sit in the seat, but if he had asked politely if I could move the bag, I would have.'
Fowler had been drinking with colleagues since finishing a training day at 5.30pm. The defendant, who insisted he had drunk no more than four or five complimentary pints of beer after the seminar, told the court: 'I felt it was anti-social behaviour.
'He had his bag on the seat and food on the flip-down tray in front of that seat. When I put the bag in his lap it was not with undue force.
'I was irritated, but not annoyed. He laughed at me in a way to demean me. He was being very sarcastic.'
Fowler, who used to work for Barclays bank, claimed he was attempting to defend himself from Mr Farthing when his watch caught the victim's eye.
He insisted that Mr Farthing kicked him and presented a photograph of an ankle injury to the court.
He also claimed he had a vast amount of experience in dealing with high-pressure situations, gained during 20 years in management.
He was arrested at East Croydon station and questioned the day after the attack.
'To my disappointment, I was treated like a common criminal and spent a sleepless night in a cell. I have never been in trouble before,' Fowler said.
'The whole thing is an embarrassment. This was more like school playground behaviour than how a middle-aged, middle-class bloke like me should behave.'
District Judge Justin Barron told Fowler, who employs 50 staff: 'Your behaviour has been described as loutish, drunken and boorish.
'Your demeanour in the witness stand has come over as aggressive and sarcastic and it is far more likely you received that injury through your own drunken behaviour.
'The complainant received a two and a half centimetre laceration below the left eye and is permanently scarred.'
 
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bailey65

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This man was rightly prosecuted for drunken violence on a train which is unacceptable however on the matter of seat hoarding i think the guard needs to make people move their stuff off a seat if a complaint is made or when they see it or tell them to buy a second ticket.
I find some commuters the most arrogant p*%$* s when they use up a whole table and turn it into an extension of their office people need to remember a ticket buys one seat not the whole bloody carriage.
 

aformeruser

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a ticket buys one seat
No it doesn't. A ticket allows you to travel on the train - a seat is not guaranteed, although you are supposed to get a seat on off-peak trains and shouldn't have to stand for more than 20 minutes on peak trains.

TPE conductors certainly do ask people to move items off seats and out of the aisles.
 

blanco

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on the matter of seat hoarding i think the guard needs to make people move their stuff off a seat if a complaint is made or when they see it or tell them to buy a second ticket.
people need to remember a ticket buys one seat not the whole bloody carriage.
the same goes for the obese, if you're so fat that you take up 2 seats you really should be made to buy 2 tickets.
 

Captain Chaos

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I tend to find that telling someone your going to charge them the full open signle fare from where they come from to where they are going to unless they remove the offending item usually does the trick.

Often followed by 'jobsworth' and 'you're worse than Hitler/Nazis' etc. Then followed by 'Thank You' from said person who can now sit down.
 

bailey65

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If they did that to obese people they would cry blue murder and say it's discrimination against their rights,not my fault i'm like this etc etc that's what society is unfortunately like now.
 

Captain Chaos

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If they did that to obese people they would cry blue murder and say it's discrimination against their rights,not my fault i'm like this etc etc that's what society is unfortunately like now.
I'm fat and it IS my fault. I ate too much crap. But although classed as obese I don't take up two seats fortunately (I'd be highly embarrassed if I ever did).

Mind you I started a diet last week and lost 5lbs in the first week so hopefully I won't be like it much longer... :)
 

tempests1

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I can understand the frustration of the guy, but he might have done well to count to ten before acting. A bit more tolerance perhaps? I sat next a commuter on the train this morning with a large laptop and he proceeding to heavily type all the way to London. I might have thought what an idiot and that I would love to have put the laptop in the bin, but then rational thought kicks in. There are a lot of annoying and selfish things that people do imagine what this guy is like in the supermarket or driving his car!
 

blanco

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I can understand the frustration of the guy, but he might have done well to count to ten before acting. A bit more tolerance perhaps? I sat next a commuter on the train this morning with a large laptop and he proceeding to heavily type all the way to London. I might have thought what an idiot and that I would love to have put the laptop in the bin, but then rational thought kicks in. There are a lot of annoying and selfish things that people do imagine what this guy is like in the supermarket or driving his car!
obviously just laying into someone is goiong to be deemed excessive, but surely pointing out how anti social/rude/obnoxious someone is being is perfectly alright.
 
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I can understand the frustration of the guy, but he might have done well to count to ten before acting. A bit more tolerance perhaps? I sat next a commuter on the train this morning with a large laptop and he proceeding to heavily type all the way to London. I might have thought what an idiot and that I would love to have put the laptop in the bin, but then rational thought kicks in. There are a lot of annoying and selfish things that people do imagine what this guy is like in the supermarket or driving his car!
A very sensible comment in my opinion. It can be very annoying when other people dont behave in a way that fits our own personal values, and spreading out over 2 seats for a late night McMeal probably fits that category in some way or another (if indeed that was the case - we'll never know exactly the circumstances). But acting aggresively about it never achieves the desired result.

What does this whole episode prove? There's nothing quite as annoying as "other people"!! :lol:

As an aside, the report does mention the guilty party used to work for Barclays Bank. How on earth does that qualify him to be described as a "former banker"? He's just as likely been a cashier, a junior branch manager or perhaps worked in their training department. Or are all employees of banks now classed as "bankers" as a terrible slight to suit the national mood?
 

marks87

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Isn't there an assumption going on here that he was asked to move the bag and didn't?

Whenever I'm on public transport, if the next next to me is free, I put my bag on it. If the bus/train starts getting busy, I'll move it; if I've not noticed it getting busy, I'll happily move it when asked.
 
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Can we try to move on from gross generalisations about weight, and perhaps pass comment on the rather more serious story about the late night on-train ill behaviour?!
 

David

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Ignoring the arguments and personal insults, I shall try and drag this thread back on topic ....

First off, a couple of quotes.

Fowler had been drinking with colleagues since finishing a training day at 5.30pm. The defendant, who insisted he had drunk no more than four or five complimentary pints of beer after the seminar.
He was very, very drunk, his words were slurry and he was very, very rude and arrogant.
So he's admitted he's been drinking, and according to the article he was drinking for just over 5 hours. Either he's a very slow drinker or he's told a few porkies ....

My next point is .... How full will a train be from London Bridge at 11:15 at night? If there was plenty of seats available then he's been looking for a fight, and is lucky to get away with a custodial sentance.
 
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I imagine - I can't say I've ever been through London Bridge at 11.15pm - but there will be seats available.
It's tricky to call. Most services at that time are indeed pretty empty - I used to live in Oxted so know from experience, albeit a few years ago.

But you can get the odd one which fills up for no obvious reason - maybe a late running earlier service so a lot of folk cram onto the first East Croydon train.

But balance of probability is that there were other seats to choose from. And I wouldnt choose a McEater as my first choice to sit next to anyway!
 

bailey65

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Obesity is a difficult subject a lot of the time it is because of medical problems and therefore comes under disability and disabled people need extra help and consideration on trains and buses there are also those who are that way because of poor lifestyles but you can't go picking on them all the same.
I am watching a series called big body squad about the teams of people carers and medical staff who have to look after and transport people at the extreme end of the obesity scale reasons range from medical,mental and poor lifestyle it is frightening how bad the problem is.
 

yorkie

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Please can the following requests be considered:

  • If you see something you don't like, ignore it or, if it's more serious, please report it using the report button (
    ). If it's not reported, we probably won't see it, we rely on reports to take action in most cases. Your co-operation in this area is greatly appreciated! :)
  • Please do not quote the objectionable content. If you report a post, and then re-publish the material by quoting it, then I may take that as an indication that you are, in fact, quite happy for the comments to remain, in which case I do wonder why it was reported.
  • It creates a lot of extra work for us to 'tidy up' a thread where such content has been quoted and/or responded to, so bear in mind when responding that it can increase our workload (and give you more PMs in your inbox informing you of the deletion for the reason 'Refers to deleted content')
Let's not forget that there is no evidence that the victim in this case was asked to remove the item, and no evidence that the victim refused to move the item. It is possible that either, or both, happened, but even if someone still refused, what happened next is not acceptable. Please don't try to paint the picture of a victim being an instigator unless you have very good grounds to do so.
 

bb21

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I have reopened this thread now that the matter has been dealt with. It would be appreciated if all members can take note of what yorkie said above.
 

phil8715

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Pensioners are one of the worse culprits, they sit on the outside seat and their bags on the window seat on the bus. If you ask if you can sit down they look at you like you've got 2 heads. I've seen buses full and standing and pensioners blissfully unaware sitting on the outside seat.

One of these days I will ask them if they've paid for 2 seats obviously they haven't paid because they use their free bus pass. If they don't move I will get the driver to move it.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 

tony_mac

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It isn't some small minority who do it on the train, in the hope that nobody sits next to them.

From my recent journeys, in trains without two free seats together, it is at least 8/10 people who block the other seat with coats / bags / feet.

As most people are doing this now, you have to be more difficult than average to persuade people not to sit next to you - hence we are seeing more of the bag on seat and the adjacent tray table down with stuff on it.

All of these tactics contribute to increasing the stress levels of boarding passengers, by forcing them to either stand up or risk a confrontation.

While there can be no excuse for the violence, I can see that if you make things more stressful for people, occasionally somebody will snap. And if an obviously drunk and angry man sits next to you, (allegedly) winding him up is possibly not the wisest course of action.
 
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This man was rightly prosecuted for drunken violence on a train which is unacceptable however on the matter of seat hoarding i think the guard needs to make people move their stuff off a seat if a complaint is made or when they see it or tell them to buy a second ticket.
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
All very well but you won't find a guard on a FCC train and you definately won't find any RPI at 11:15pm any night of the week either.
Still im sure you can find a vacant bloack of 2 seats somewhere in a 8 coach train that time of night
 
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