Dry Trains from Scotland

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badger1badger

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Hello everyone

We are travelling up to Scotland on Saturday morning 30 April and travelling back on the 1900 Edinburgh alighting at York

Does anyone know of the evening train is a dry train ?

Paul
 
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Blindtraveler

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Unless something has changed very recently the only dry train is the 07:52x Aberdeen on Fridays with the dry status applying as far as Newcastle. There may be local restrictions applying to the entire train or passengers joining at Newcastle on your return but it certainly leavs Edinburgh with the lisenced element traiding normally

worth also baring in mind that all Scotrail trains are dry between 21:00 and 10am every day but you may still carry it in your luggage unopened

again unless something has changed these rules do not apply to VTEC, XC or Sleapers on Scottish metals. Hope this helps
 

badger1badger

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Unless something has changed very recently the only dry train is the 07:52x Aberdeen on Fridays with the dry status applying as far as Newcastle. There may be local restrictions applying to the entire train or passengers joining at Newcastle on your return but it certainly leavs Edinburgh with the lisenced element traiding normally

worth also baring in mind that all Scotrail trains are dry between 21:00 and 10am every day but you may still carry it in your luggage unopened

again unless something has changed these rules do not apply to VTEC, XC or Sleapers on Scottish metals. Hope this helps

Great BT

It was VTEC someone said was dry but you answered my question !!!

Cheers !
 

jopsuk

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VTEC services can also be "dry" due to events- eg Football matches. This should be clearly advertised
 

DarloRich

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Hello everyone

We are travelling up to Scotland on Saturday morning 30 April and travelling back on the 1900 Edinburgh alighting at York

Does anyone know of the evening train is a dry train ?

Paul

if there is an event ( usually but not always football) on the police/authorities can order "dry" trains. They are well advertised in advance otherwise trains aren't "dry" routinely.
 

SteveP29

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VTEC services can also be "dry" due to events- eg Football matches. This should be clearly advertised

Newcastle United are home that day at 3pm, so there will most likely be a few dry services. I will be keeping my powder dry until about 12:30pm, that leaves just enough time to get enough alcohol into me so that I don't have to watch the match through the gaps between my fingers.
 

CaptainHaddock

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In my experience VTEC are very poor at advertising what trains are "dry"; they don't seem to publicise which trains affected online, instead the first you know about it is when you arrive at the station to be confronted with a poster, having just purchased a few cans to make the journey home go quicker!

To make matters worse, the BTP are getting ever more draconian and seem to be making their own rules up (eg trying to criminalise people for "concealing alcohol") even if they are perfectly sober when boarding the train!

Here's the Football Supporters Federation take on this, which also includes a link to their Twitter and Facebook pages where they list in advance what trains will be dry.

http://www.fsf.org.uk/blog/view/Dru...ll-be-refused-travel-British-Transport-Police
 

ainsworth74

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The 1900 is very commonly a dry try in my experience so whoever you spoke to at VTEC may well be right.
 

BestWestern

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In my experience VTEC are very poor at advertising what trains are "dry"; they don't seem to publicise which trains affected online, instead the first you know about it is when you arrive at the station to be confronted with a poster, having just purchased a few cans to make the journey home go quicker!

To make matters worse, the BTP are getting ever more draconian and seem to be making their own rules up (eg trying to criminalise people for "concealing alcohol") even if they are perfectly sober when boarding the train!

Here's the Football Supporters Federation take on this, which also includes a link to their Twitter and Facebook pages where they list in advance what trains will be dry.

http://www.fsf.org.uk/blog/view/Dru...ll-be-refused-travel-British-Transport-Police

The Supporters' Federation opposes dry trains; there's a surprise! Fans are 'discriminated against' because they are a totally different beast to the normal travelling public, I'd have thought that was commom sense. If these people wish to be viewed as no different to everyone else, perhaps they ought to begin by trying to behave like everyone else?

I fully support the efforts of the BTP and the TOCs, and long may it continue.
 

mbreckers

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The Supporters' Federation opposes dry trains; there's a surprise! Fans are 'discriminated against' because they are a totally different beast to the normal travelling public, I'd have thought that was commom sense. If these people wish to be viewed as no different to everyone else, perhaps they ought to begin by trying to behave like everyone else?

I fully support the efforts of the BTP and the TOCs, and long may it continue.

I was travelling a few Sundays ago and had the unfortunate luck to be on the same train as the Celtic fans going to Hampden for whatever cup match it was against Rangers.

The amount of sectarian, vulgar language in use on that train was unbeleivable, and this was before the match.

Somehow i doubt allowing them to drink would have improved the situatuon, and I also fully support dry trains and would in fact extend the drinking ban to all trains, no matter what time of day
 

Chrism20

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The 1900 is very commonly a dry try in my experience so whoever you spoke to at VTEC may well be right.

It's a dry train every week, there is a notice at Waverley about it. Can't remember which platform but I've seen it within the last fortnight.
 

Tetchytyke

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The 1900 on a Saturday night is routinely a dry train, and it usually carries security guards as far as Newcastle.
 

yorksrob

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Damned nuisance that 19:00 dry train. They seem to be putting them on willy-nilly nowadays.
 

rg177

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As a regular user of Newcastle Central at the time that the 1900 Edinburgh-Doncaster is there/due (2043ish off Newcastle) I must say that it's probably necessary, considering the kind of clientele that go to board, who have clearly had a very hasty night out :lol: It's extremely popular and on certain occasions I have noted it to be completely full and standing in D/E/F/H (those were the carriages in view anyway) with security at every door.

The 2155 off Newcastle to Manchester Airport is no better either, with it being the last train of the night for any destination south on a Saturday.
 
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DarloRich

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The Supporters' Federation opposes dry trains; there's a surprise! Fans are 'discriminated against' because they are a totally different beast to the normal travelling public, I'd have thought that was commom sense. If these people wish to be viewed as no different to everyone else, perhaps they ought to begin by trying to behave like everyone else?

I fully support the efforts of the BTP and the TOCs, and long may it continue.

odd that my friends and I went to the match on Saturday, had rather a large amount to drink and, perhaps most shockingly, drank on the train ( :oops: ) and didn't manage to smash anything up or abuse anyone. I know. We must try harder. :roll:

All dry trains do, and this is the point the FSF make, is that everyone (fan and normal alike) is treated as a criminal rather than targeting those who actually are criminals. The FSF want a better form of policing around football to deal with the trouble makers rather than treat everyone as an assumed trouble maker and all the infringement of civil liberties that goes with that.

BTW I am interested to note that I am not people like everyone else. I haven't been arrested or convicted of any crime but do like going, by train, to the match.
 
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gimmea50anyday

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There are quite a few dry Services on a Saturday. And sadly it's the binge drinking culture that has spoilt and caused it. The real ale trail across the Pennines has been took over by lager louts, York is invaded em masse by teessiders (and if they can't get on the TPE service at 10:30 they head to Whitby) meaning ALL services out of York after 18:30 are dry.

Friday doesnt escape as Friday afternoon is usually stags, hens and squaddies letting their hair down excessively not to mention the oil riggers starting their shore leave. Some Services are notorious for trouble and strife such so that train staff daren't go through. Management know which trains these are and back the staff!
--- old post above --- --- new post below ---
The 21:55 is usually rammed out of Newcastle bus has usually emptied out by Darlo. Most of the punters getting free rides if the barriers haven't been maintained that late (although to be fair they usually are in operation late on Saturday)
 

Tetchytyke

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All dry trains do, and this is the point the FSF make, is that everyone (fan and normal alike) is treated as a criminal rather than targeting those who actually are criminals.

Indeed. There are dry trains most weekends from London to the north east, with Leeds, Hull, Newcastle, Sunderland and Middlesbrough all playing a lot of games in London. It's ridiculous. Not only does it mean that I can't have a beer on the train home from a day out, it also means that I can't buy anything nice to bring home because I can't rely on the BTP not confiscating it. I know I was mocked last time I mentioned this, but I have seen people refused boarding for "hiding alcohol" even though it was clearly wrapped as a gift.

Dry trains don't even make the travelling experience any better, because the tanked up louts are still on the train being tanked up louts anyway. The BTP should be denying boarding to those too drunk to travel, but they don't, figuring getting them home is better.
 

DarloRich

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Dry trains don't even make the travelling experience any better, because the tanked up louts are still on the train being tanked up louts anyway. The BTP should be denying boarding to those too drunk to travel, but they don't, figuring getting them home is better.

exactly - arrest those who are criminals and sling them in the cells overnight. Leave the rest of us in peace.
 

transportphoto

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To make matters worse, the BTP are getting ever more draconian and seem to be making their own rules up (eg trying to criminalise people for "concealing alcohol") even if they are perfectly sober when boarding the train!
I find this sentence of your post interesting, wouldn't you consider it correct that a person who intentionally or otherwise commits a criminal offence to be punished by way of the law?

s4 of the Railway Bylaws, made by way of delegated legislation enabled by s219 Transport Act 2000 makes it a strict liability offence to disobey a dry train order:
Where reasonable notice is, or has been, given prohibiting intoxicating liquor on any train service, no person shall have any intoxicating liquor with him on it, or attempt to enter such a train with intoxicating liquor with him.

I appreciate the argument that criminal prosecution may not be the best means of disposal, however you must accept that these individuals are still committing an offence?

TP
 

Mikey C

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Indeed. There are dry trains most weekends from London to the north east, with Leeds, Hull, Newcastle, Sunderland and Middlesbrough all playing a lot of games in London. It's ridiculous. Not only does it mean that I can't have a beer on the train home from a day out, it also means that I can't buy anything nice to bring home because I can't rely on the BTP not confiscating it. I know I was mocked last time I mentioned this, but I have seen people refused boarding for "hiding alcohol" even though it was clearly wrapped as a gift.

Dry trains don't even make the travelling experience any better, because the tanked up louts are still on the train being tanked up louts anyway. The BTP should be denying boarding to those too drunk to travel, but they don't, figuring getting them home is better.

By contrast, TfL bans drinking alcohol and carrying open containers of alcohol so an unopened bottle of wine would be fine.
Of course people come home from the supermarket on the Tube or bus, so it would be a nonsense otherwise!
 

yorksrob

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I find this sentence of your post interesting, wouldn't you consider it correct that a person who intentionally or otherwise commits a criminal offence to be punished by way of the law?

s4 of the Railway Bylaws, made by way of delegated legislation enabled by s219 Transport Act 2000 makes it a strict liability offence to disobey a dry train order:

I appreciate the argument that criminal prosecution may not be the best means of disposal, however you must accept that these individuals are still committing an offence?

TP

I don't think it is sensible to make something a criminal act in one circumstance, when in another almost identical circumstance, it would be accepted practice, I.e, carrying an unopened container of alcohol on a train.
 

BestWestern

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exactly - arrest those who are criminals and sling them in the cells overnight. Leave the rest of us in peace.

And we all know how utterly impractical that is.

I appreciate that is must irritate the hell out of the decent fans, but the sad fact is that football supporters have a reputation. It isn't a made up conspiracy, it's based on decades of problems. It ties up resources, costs a huge sum of money and causes a lot of issues for those who are unfortunate enough to unwittingly encounter it. Society has to deal with the problem as best it can, seeing as there appears to be no chance of the football industry taking ownership or the people themselves actually developing into civilised human beings and behaving as such. Dry trains is something that helps: it isn't society's problem and nor should it be to flood the railway with an army of police to hand pick the idiots, and provide banks of holding cells to put them in.

Sad, but also true.
 

yorksrob

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And we all know how utterly impractical that is.

I appreciate that is must irritate the hell out of the decent fans, but the sad fact is that football supporters have a reputation. It isn't a made up conspiracy, it's based on decades of problems. It ties up resources, costs a huge sum of money and causes a lot of issues for those who are unfortunate enough to unwittingly encounter it. Society has to deal with the problem as best it can, seeing as there appears to be no chance of the football industry taking ownership or the people themselves actually developing into civilised human beings and behaving as such. Dry trains is something that helps: it isn't society's problem and nor should it be to flood the railway with an army of police to hand pick the idiots, and provide banks of holding cells to put them in.

Sad, but also true.

It would probably be less of an annoyance if there was some process to renew whether such arrangements are still necessary after a given time. Is there any process to review the declaration of dry trains, or is the aim to head towards some sort of hellish puritanical utopia when all trains are officially dry ?
 

ainsworth74

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Is there any process to review the declaration of dry trains, or is the aim to head towards some sort of hellish puritanical utopia when all trains are officially dry ?

And if that does happen can we expect a rash of speakeasies to begin cropping up on trains? :lol:
 

Tetchytyke

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And if that does happen can we expect a rash of speakeasies to begin cropping up on trains? :lol:

We already do. A couple of years ago I shared a lovely bottle of Bombay Sapphire with two Spurs fans who'd smuggled it on to the train.

Not to mention the fact the last time I caught the 1900- designated a dry train- the steward was cheerfully selling beer from the buffet car.

I get the thinking behind dry trains, at least it stops the drunken louts getting more drunk, but the issue is drunken louts being allowed to board.
 

DarloRich

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And we all know how utterly impractical that is.

I appreciate that is must irritate the hell out of the decent fans, but the sad fact is that football supporters have a reputation. It isn't a made up conspiracy, it's based on decades of problems. It ties up resources, costs a huge sum of money and causes a lot of issues for those who are unfortunate enough to unwittingly encounter it. Society has to deal with the problem as best it can, seeing as there appears to be no chance of the football industry taking ownership or the people themselves actually developing into civilised human beings and behaving as such. Dry trains is something that helps: it isn't society's problem and nor should it be to flood the railway with an army of police to hand pick the idiots, and provide banks of holding cells to put them in.

Sad, but also true.

So my fiends and I have not developed into civilised human beings then? Can you not see how that attitude is part of the problem? I haven't been convicted of any crime and my only offence appears to be to dare to use the public transport network to watch a game of football.

I understand entirely the reasoning behind the police seeking dry trains. However, it treats the symptoms and not the cause of the problem and means the train guards then become responsible for the problem passengers/sorting out confrontation. That isn't their job.
 
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Mag_seven

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By contrast, TfL bans drinking alcohol and carrying open containers of alcohol so an unopened bottle of wine would be fine.
Of course people come home from the supermarket on the Tube or bus, so it would be a nonsense otherwise!

I've seen the so called TfL alcohol ban openly flouted on many recent occasions - is it ever enforced?
 
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