Dry Trains from Scotland

[badger1badger]

Thanks for all the comments - at least I know now the train is dry - so a few beers before.

We are traveling first class, I hope it is not declassified, if so Can I be recompensed for my ticket

Paul

 

[Norther Monkey]

Frankly, I'd like to see all trains dry. I commute across the country most weekends and the most common thing that makes a journey thoroughly unpleasant is drink and drunks.

I like the odd drink, but would happily forego having the odd glass on a train to improve the overall ambiance.

 

[Mag_seven]

Frankly, I'd like to see all trains dry. I commute across the country most weekends and the most common thing that makes a journey thoroughly unpleasant is drink and drunks.

I like the odd drink, but would happily forego having the odd glass on a train to improve the overall ambiance.

But the problem is mainly with those who are already drunk when they get on.

 

[BestWestern]

So my fiends and I have not developed into civilised human beings then? Can you not see how that attitude is part of the problem? I haven't been convicted of any crime and my only offence appears to be to dare to use the public transport network to watch a game of football.

I understand entirely the reasoning behind the police seeking dry trains. However, it treats the symptoms and not the cause of the problem and means the train guards then become responsible for the problem passengers/sorting out confrontation. That isn't their job.

I was rather under the impression that you and your friends would in fact be amongst the decent fans I mentioned; or are you a lager soaked, hollaring yob? If so then no, clearly you haven't!

As I said, the issue here lies entirely within the football community. It is nobody else's fault, and it shouldn't be up to others to put up with it. Whilst I accept your point that many fans are not part of this problem, again, it is one for the football lot to deal with. In the meantime I'm afraid the current situation is likely to prevail (as will the football crown behaviour, I would imagine...)

 

[DarloRich]

I was rather under the impression that you and your friends would in fact be amongst the decent fans I mentioned; or are you a lager soaked, hollaring yob? If so then no, clearly you haven't!

One doesn't drink lager!

We might sing the odd song, especially having just won the league, but that is no different form the rugby types I have shared trains with when England, Scotland or Wales have been playing or the behaviour of those rugby fans attending matches at stadium MK. They are actually worse than football fans!

As I said, the issue here lies entirely within the football community. It is nobody else's fault, and it shouldn't be up to others to put up with it. Whilst I accept your point that many fans are not part of this problem, again, it is one for the football lot to deal with. In the meantime I'm afraid the current situation is likely to prevail (as will the football crown behaviour, I would imagine...)

No, with respect, criminality is the job of the police to deal with. it isn't your job or mine. While we can, and do, deal with low level chavishness those intent on creating serious bother need to be dealt with by the police, arrested and charged.

What should the clubs be doing to solve the "problem"? I know what I would like to see done but I would be interested in your views. I don't know what the issues with football crowd behaviour are either. Crown trouble at games is almost non existent.

 

[najaB]

Crown trouble at games is almost non existent.

One would hope that she knows how to behave herself!

 

[edwin_m]

We might sing the odd song, especially having just won the league, but that is no different form the rugby types I have shared trains with when England, Scotland or Wales have been playing or the behaviour of those rugby fans attending matches at stadium MK. They are actually worse than football fans!

Even that can be intimidating to some people - though I agree the problem is at least as much with rugby and racing as with football.

One doesn't drink lager!
No, with respect, criminality is the job of the police to deal with. it isn't your job or mine. While we can, and do, deal with low level chavishness those intent on creating serious bother need to be dealt with by the police, arrested and charged.

What should the clubs be doing to solve the "problem"? I know what I would like to see done but I would be interested in your views. I don't know what the issues with football crowd behaviour are either. Crown trouble at games is almost non existent.

I suspect the issue and the perceived unfairness revolves around the clubs making a lot of money and the players being paid obscene amounts. Meanwhile the public have to suffer when they encounter the rowdy minority, and pick up the tab via fares and taxes for policing them.

Is any charge made to clubs for the costs of policing match-related behaviour on the way to and from the ground, rather than just in and around it?

 

[Tetchytyke]

As I said, the issue here lies entirely within the football community.

No it doesn't. The worst trains for antisocial behaviour- the 1900 from Edinburgh, the last train from Liverpool to Crewe, the late trains from York to Middlesbrough, the Friday morning VTEC from Aberdeen- have absolutely nothing to do with football or football fans.

Is any charge made to clubs for the costs of policing match-related behaviour on the way to and from the ground, rather than just in and around it?

Yes, the cost of policing travel is passed on to the clubs.

 

[ainsworth74]

Thanks for all the comments - at least I know now the train is dry - so a few beers before.

Don't have too many otherwise you might not be allowed to travel!

We are traveling first class, I hope it is not declassified, if so Can I be recompensed for my ticket

Very rare to have first class declassified outside of major disruption so I wouldn't worry about it at all.

 

[Tetchytyke]

We are traveling first class, I hope it is not declassified, if so Can I be recompensed for my ticket

If it's declassified you'll get Seat Guarantee compensation.

It doesn't tend to be declassified, although IME there's always at least one drunken group who want to be upgraded (without paying for it, natch). Just be aware that the crew aren't always the most attentive on that train, shall we say.

 

[broadgage]

I can see the merit of making limited numbers of trains "dry" when trouble might otherwise be expected, but I can not support any move towards making large numbers of trains "dry"

My concern is "mission creep" whereby the puritans aided by the health lobby start to regard increasing numbers of dry trains as being an aim or goal in itself, rather than being a limited and targeted response to a specific problem.

Drinking is the "new smoking"

The present dry trains are already an inconvenience for those desiring to convey a bottle by train for later use or as a gift.

Bans and restrictions tend to become more onerous in time, and to become over interpreted by over zealous staff.
I have been a victim of this on several TFL* journeys. The TFL ban only relates to drinking or the carrying of open containers of alcoholic drink. Yet I have been denied boarding on local TFL buses for carrying drink in a supermarket carrier bag. I was sober and had no history of being drunk on buses. I complained to TFL who stated that they accept the drivers decision as to whom may or may not board a bus.
On the national rail network I have been threatened with arrest for drinking in moderation on the platform at City thameslink station. I pointed out that nothing prohibited this and was told that "this station is below ground so we have decoded to follow the same rules as on the underground"

"we" in this context presumably means that the staff and PCSOs had invented their own rules.

Wait till we get this sort of nonsense on the national network.

 

[al78]

I can see the merit of making limited numbers of trains "dry" when trouble might otherwise be expected, but I can not support any move towards making large numbers of trains "dry"

My concern is "mission creep" whereby the puritans aided by the health lobby start to regard increasing numbers of dry trains as being an aim or goal in itself, rather than being a limited and targeted response to a specific problem.

Drinking is the "new smoking"

The present dry trains are already an inconvenience for those desiring to convey a bottle by train for later use or as a gift.

Bans and restrictions tend to become more onerous in time, and to become over interpreted by over zealous staff.
I have been a victim of this on several TFL* journeys. The TFL ban only relates to drinking or the carrying of open containers of alcoholic drink. Yet I have been denied boarding on local TFL buses for carrying drink in a supermarket carrier bag. I was sober and had no history of being drunk on buses. I complained to TFL who stated that they accept the drivers decision as to whom may or may not board a bus.
On the national rail network I have been threatened with arrest for drinking in moderation on the platform at City thameslink station. I pointed out that nothing prohibited this and was told that "this station is below ground so we have decoded to follow the same rules as on the underground"

"we" in this context presumably means that the staff and PCSOs had invented their own rules.

Wait till we get this sort of nonsense on the national network.

That is what happens when you have a significant number of thoughtless, careless people who think they are entitled to do what they like and externalise the costs of their actions onto others.

The various authorities are merely reacting in an attempt to try and reduce the problems, if the problems weren't there they would not have to resort to these kind of restrictions. Therefore, your frustration should be vented at the perpetrators, not those trying to counter the side effects of those perpetrators. Speak out against the provocation, not the retailation, otherwise it just gives license for the anti-social to walk all over everyone without any fear of consequence.

 

[Ianigsy]

The present dry trains are already an inconvenience for those desiring to convey a bottle by train for later use or as a gift.

It also defeats the purpose of running trains direct to many airports or through bookings with Eurostar if there's a chance you might not be allowed on the train home with your duty free or other drink bought abroad. Given that cup ties can be arranged with less than 2 weeks' notice, it's entirely possible to head off on a fortnight's holiday, have your train home from the airport declared dry and be none the wiser when you get back. Ditto travellers from the provinces doing Christmas shopping in London on Saturdays in December, when travel may have been booked as far back as September.

 

[Mag_seven]

I
On the national rail network I have been threatened with arrest for drinking in moderation on the platform at City thameslink station. I pointed out that nothing prohibited this and was told that "this station is below ground so we have decoded to follow the same rules as on the underground"

Yet I'd bet when there are crowds of drunken yobs on the platform the same staff that harassed you are nowhere to be seen - funny that.

 

[sng7]

I think scotrail alcohol ban is a good compromise due to problems with behaviour drinking alcohol or visible alcohol is banned but if it is in a bag they have no problem which seems reasonable to me.

 

[BestWestern]

Yes, the cost of policing travel is passed on to the clubs.

Which major football club (Leeds?) was it which went to court to fight requests from the local police force to contribute to the costs of supervising their crowds? That attitude stinks, frankly.

 

[najaB]

Forget dry trains from Scotland, we need more dry trains in Scotland. On the Inverness-Aberdeen train and the consumption of booze is quite copious, with the 'lively' behaviour that goes with it.

/rant.

 

[Bodiddly]

Forget dry trains from Scotland, we need more dry trains in Scotland. On the Inverness-Aberdeen train and the consumption of booze is quite copious, with the 'lively' behaviour that goes with it.

/rant.

This line seems to be the party express. There are always boozy groups on it at all times of the day. Add to that the off shore boys enjoying their first swally in 3 weeks, then it really is the p*ss up train!
On another note, I noticed recently that the Friday's 09.52 ABD-KGX is a dry train as far as Newcastle (or further South?) and to police it, there are two security staff who search bags at the station. As far as I could see there were no bag searches, loud groups were walking past these two 'guards' without much in the way of warnings and the two 'guards' preceded to tell the most unlikely boozers (little old ladies,families, priests etc) that it was a dry train and alcohol would be removed if found. It was quite funny to watch!

 

[CheshireCrusty]

I don't know whether it is dry or not, but the worst experience from the effect of drink on a train I experienced was on the SWT Reading to Waterloo late afternoon service during Ascot week (particular Ladies Day), when the train seemed packed of passengers who were unable to retain the alcohol they had already consumed (in both directions) and also were still consuming more. The language and behaviour also seemed to make most football fans seem angelic!

 

[najaB]

I was on the 17:15 Inverness to Aberdeen, the patrons included some young lads off to a stag do and they decided to make a start on the night with cans and bottles of various description. Stumbling drunk and noisy is a good way to describe things, one of them almost got left behind at Huntly - after all, if you're boozed up the next thing you need is a smoke.

 

[me123]

There's a huge alcohol problem on all lines in and around Aberdeen. This reflects the huge alcohol problem in the city as a whole. Whilst it's Glasgow that gets labelled as the "problem" area where alcohol is concerned, I can honestly say that having lived in both cities Aberdeen is considerably worse in general.

Although maybe the railway situation is a bit more complex than that. Glasgow's trains generally stop more frequently and will undoubtedly have a shorter average journey time, whereas Aberdeen's stop rarely and you're on board for longer - perhaps they've simply got more time to get drunk on the train?

 

[Iskra]

Which major football club (Leeds?) was it which went to court to fight requests from the local police force to contribute to the costs of supervising their crowds? That attitude stinks, frankly.

Why should LUFC pay for policing Leeds city centre on a Saturday afternoon?

Leeds were more than happy to pay for policing in and around the ground.