DSB has sold all 74 Ansaldobreda IC4 to an unknown buyer

andersj

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DSB has confirmed that they have sold all remaining 74 (83 was build) IC4 DMU's to an undisclosed international buyer. 14 trains will be delivered now and the rest will be delivered as soon as they are replaced by the new "IC5" Alstom Coradia Stream EMU's from 2025.

Source (paywall): https://ing.dk/artikel/dsb-har-solgt-samtlige-ic4-tog-ogsaa-de-mest-upaalidelige-257771

11 of the 14 trains are in storage because of reliability problems and they where offered for sale in 2020: https://www.locomotives-for-sale.co...7-1-4-Car-Intercity-Diesel-Multiple-Units.pdf

8 trains have been scrapped and one train is in Libya because it was gifted from Silvio Berlusconi to Muammar Gaddafi back in 2009 - DSB did not pay for this trainset and they also didn't know about the gift until the media discovered it in 2011. DSB even thought that it was just there for display, as it was still the property of Ansaldobreda, but they soon realized that it in fact was gifted to Libya without their permission and would likely never be delivered.
 
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Gloster

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DSB have been trying to get rid of them for some years. The biggest problem with them is working in multiple, which is extremely important to DSB’s operating practices, but there are still plenty of other ones to be found. They are slightly less of a problem when operating singly, but they are still pretty poor. Despite more than fifteen years’ trouble-shooting, they achieved a kilométrage between failures less than one third of that of the IC3, their predecessors.
 

dgl

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I wonder if it's possible to sell them to anyone but a scrap dealer as I doubt anyone in the rail industry would not now about their issues!
 

StephenHunter

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DSB have been trying to get rid of them for some years. The biggest problem with them is working in multiple, which is extremely important to DSB’s operating practices, but there are still plenty of other ones to be found. They are slightly less of a problem when operating singly, but they are still pretty poor. Despite more than fifteen years’ trouble-shooting, they achieved a kilométrage between failures less than one third of that of the IC3, their predecessors.
If you sell them to one of the smaller European operators, working in multiple is far less of an issue.
 

andersj

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They drive in multiple every single day, but the coupling procedure is too slow for the quick couplings on the go needed in InterCity services. They do however run some non-stop trains between Copenhagen and Aarhus only stopping in Odense, most of them in multiple.

It is very unique for Denmark to have this kind of coupling procedure where you loose coaches on the way from Copenhagen to Aalborg according to demand and on the other way pick up coaches on multiple stations. So if you don't need to couple multiple times a day, it's no problem to dun the trains in multiple

The mean distance between failures (MDBF) measured by DSB can also be a mit misleading, because it contains all technical issues resulting in a delay of more than 2:59 minutes. The Siemens Vectrons have a very low MDBF due to initial software issues resulting in an emergency brake, which always lead to a delay on more than 2:59 minutes - but the train is able to continue. It is also rare that an IC4 aren't able to continue, but just a door problem will trigger a MDBF measuring because of the very restrictive time limit.
 

fgwrich

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They drive in multiple every single day, but the coupling procedure is too slow for the quick couplings on the go needed in InterCity services. They do however run some non-stop trains between Copenhagen and Aarhus only stopping in Odense, most of them in multiple.
Slow coupling procedure for an Pistoia built Intercity DMU, sounds like something @irish_rail knows all to well…

Do we know the fate of the Libya unit? Did it eventually make its way to join its DSB classmates or is it still out there?
 

61653 HTAFC

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I wonder if it's possible to sell them to anyone but a scrap dealer as I doubt anyone in the rail industry would not now about their issues!
Perhaps... though the Dutch/Belgian Fyra sets (an even more troublesome Ansaldo-Breda build) are now in use back home in Italy.
 

MarcVD

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Perhaps... though the Dutch/Belgian Fyra sets (an even more troublesome Ansaldo-Breda build) are now in use back home in Italy.
Desperate move of the Italian government to salvage the Ansaldobreda company that would have ended up in bankruptcy otherwise.
 

riceuten

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I think this message still applies!

View attachment 115824
Ha, I remember when the Dutch press referred to these as "Aldi Treins", Aldi threatened to sue ! IIRC they were heavily rebuilt by Hitachi (who bought Ansaldobreda) before being let out on to the rails in Italy. There is also the story of a load of trams in Oslo that Ansaldobreda built that were not fit for purpose, due to rain and cold weather - who'd've thunk it ?
 
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dutchflyer

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Does seem to be a thing of ´not invented here´ that rather often seems to happen in railwayland. Like the PESA dieselsets that DB bought (on the cheap of course) for its Sauerland network-endless problems, but as to now no sign of selling 2nd hand. Whereas in PL on PolRegio they seem to do just fine. Perhaps some countries bring a stigma in whatever they are able to sell out of their homebase.
But back to topic: it does seem indeed a rather secretive buyer-no other rail-forums seem to have yet been able to discover who are the lucky buyers of Danish hardware. Anyone has discovered more already?
 

JonasB

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There is also the story of a load of trams in Oslo that Ansaldobreda built that were not fit for purpose, due to rain and cold weather - who'd've thiunk it ?
As well as the trams they built for Gothenburg, that have suffered a lot of problems. And were nicknamed "Al Dente" by the local humour, as they are Italian and not quite done.
 

Gloster

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There is nothing more on the .jernbanen.dk site either, as far as I can see. There is a certain amount of wonder that anybody wants to buy them.
 

Julia

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It is still in Tripoli heavily damaged by vandalism and the general weather. DSB never received or paid for the trainset, but it had been in Denmark from 2005 to 2006 for testing before it returned to Pistoia.

Here is the location of the train: https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8287866,13.1114877,111m/data=!3m1!1e3

On a line which appears to go absolutely nowhere, so the train's reliability appears not to be a critical factor :)

Anyone know if there has been any progress since the Google Maps picture, or will it remain a white elephant for the foreseeable future?
 

Gloster

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It was given to Gaddafi as a present/sweetener as he was proposing building several lines and the piece of track was for promotional/demonstration runs. I would expect it, or at least what is left of it, to still be there: the IC4 is not one of the world’s most sought-after items.
 

DanNCL

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On a line which appears to go absolutely nowhere, so the train's reliability appears not to be a critical factor :)

Anyone know if there has been any progress since the Google Maps picture, or will it remain a white elephant for the foreseeable future?
It was given to Gaddafi as a present/sweetener as he was proposing building several lines and the piece of track was for promotional/demonstration runs. I would expect it, or at least what is left of it, to still be there: the IC4 is not one of the world’s most sought-after items.
The most recent sattelite imagery of the site from November 2021 shows it still in the same place, and it appears to be largely intact.
 

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