may me mis-rembering but when i took IC397 2 years ago i swear a portion was instead to Aarhus instead of HamburgThe press material issued around the time of the order stated clearly that eight Talgo sets were for Hamburg-Copenhagen. But if my maths are correct, the pre-COVID diagram (three roundtrips a day, plus one overnight roundtrip during the summer) could by covered with 4 or 5 sets. Therefore the eight sets ordered should be enough to cover both Hamburg-Copenhagen and Hamburg-Aarhus.
As my maths teacher used to say, always show your working. So, reading off table 50 in the summer 2020 European Railway Timetable, here's the peak summer season schedule, which can be covered by four trains.
IC399: Københaven H 0005 / Hamburg Hbf 0624 >>> IC396 Hamburg Hbf 0853 / Københaven H 1333
IC393: Københaven H 0726 / Hamburg Hbf 1202 >>> IC394 Hamburg Hbf 1253 / Københaven H 1733
IC395: Københaven H 1126 / Hamburg Hbf 1602 >>> IC392 Hamburg Hbf 1653 / Københaven H 2133
IC397: Københaven H 1526 / Hamburg Hbf 2002 >>> IC398 Hamburg Hbf 2356 / Københaven H 0655
Outside the summertime peak, IC397 overnights in Hamburg and returns as IC396.
Aarhus is a bit harder to read from the tables. IC382 is summertime only, but isn't matched by an equivalent summertime only service in the opposite direction, so I presume that maybe IC385 is doubled up in the summer and divides in Hamburg to serve both IC382 and IC386. The rest of the year I presume it stays overnight in Hamburg to return as IC386.
IC383 Aarhus 0937 / Hamburg Hbf 1402 >>> IC384 Hamburg Hbf 1450 / Aarhus 1918
IC385 Aarhus 1337 / Hamburg Hbf 1802 >>> IC382 Hamburg Hbf 1901 / Fredericia 2212 and/or IC386 Hamburg Hbf 1053 / Aarhus 1518?
So it seems obvious that eight trains will give DSB enough capacity to use the Talgos between Aarhus and Hamburg as well. That's not to say that with the new trains (and in a decade or so, the new tunnel) DSB aren't planning to increase frequency...
Yes. Danish voltage etc. only appears to be the plan. After the IC4 DSB does not to complicate things. A small fleet of 15kV would be all that was needed for the few trains to Germany, or even Sweden, in a large fleet, but DSB is going for standardisation. As a cynic, I suspect that DSB does not want to have ill-informed politicians berating them for not learning the lessons of the IC4.I assume you mean 25kV AC only, as Germany is also AC (but 15kV).
That certainly appears to be the case, although the Talgo order is a bit odd: they'll be hoping DB de-bug those with their order. The really low risk option would have been to order RailJet sets to go with the Vectrons.Yes. Danish voltage etc. only appears to be the plan. After the IC4 DSB does not to complicate things. A small fleet of 15kV would be all that was needed for the few trains to Germany, or even Sweden, in a large fleet, but DSB is going for standardisation. As I cynic, I suspect that DSB does not want to have ill-informed politicians berating them for not learning the lessons of the IC4.
The DB order is for Talgo Locomotives(they have never built one before) and Talgo Driving Trailers(they have never built one of those before either), wheras DSB are only getting coaches. So if anyone is going to have trouble it's the Germans!
not sure how much public tender plays a role here.The DB order is really surprising. The logical course would indeed have been to order Railjets (The second version of which is currently being built for ÖBB).
OTOH there probably was a wish not to buy everything from Siemens. DB (even if it was DB Regio) has of course done this before, with the Skoda sets for Munich - Nurnberg. It has not been a success so I hope for them it is not a case of „burned twice“.
Anyway it's still a couple of days before Alstom acquisition to Bombardier so I hope the reliability of Bombardier will get improved after Alstom's acquisition.not sure how much public tender plays a role here.
There is certainly a feeling not to buy Bombardier after the IC2 experience.
Anyway it's still a couple of days before Alstom acquisition to Bombardier so I hope the reliability of Bombardier will get improved after Alstom's acquisition.
Although, in its publicity material at a trade exhibition back in 2019, Siemens were stating the following according to the RailColor website:Just found this thread on Google, so decided to register and provide some information.
Regarding the ECx Talgo was the only bidder, if I remember correctly. It may have been due to speed requirements, as Siemens apparently have no plans of a 200+ km/h Vectron.
In its booth, Siemens presented its short and long-term plans for the Vectron locomotive. Customers can opt for the following upgrades:
- now: standard traction 300 kN > 320 kN
- now: loading run / wash run
- 2019: semi-automatic brake test
- 2019: active rotational damper (ADD)
- 2019: Wifi for VEC (Vectron Eco Cruise)
- 2020: a new ergonomics and comfort package
- 2021: Vectron DC gets 6.0MW
- 2021: reduced maintenance costs
- 2023: Xload
- planned: Vmax 230 km/h (now 200)
- planned: battery power module (BPM)
oh yes they have! For the Amtrak Cascades, the Series VIII sets have Talgo driving trailers (older ones have old locos converted to control cars) (some of the Series VIII were built for Wisconsin, also with driving trailers).Talgo Driving Trailers(they have never built one of those before either),
oh yes they have! For the Amtrak Cascades, the Series VIII sets have Talgo driving trailers (older ones have old locos converted to control cars) (some of the Series VIII were built for Wisconsin, also with driving trailers).
And whilst Talgo haven't built standalone locos, they have made electric power cars for the Talgo 250 & 350 and the diesel units for the 250 Hybrids.
It's one more coach per set - now 14 rather than 13.The order for the Talgo coaches has been modified so that each set will have 492 seats, instead of 442. The details of how this will be achieved have not been made clear, but presumably there will be one more coach per set and some rearrangement of the internal layout.
Germany might be a new challenge for CAF, but they should be familiar with the infrastructure in The Netherlands by now: they've been delivering 206 EMUs to NS over the last few years.However, I still think it will be a big challenge for them to get a multi-system locomotive and 200km/h push-pull articulated set approved and operational in the Netherlands and Germany, markets they have up till now had little to do with.
Unless my brain has gone completely crazy, there are two contracts. One is for Talgo coaches for international services to Germany with the new Class EB locos: this is proceeding. The other is for 25 kV only EMUs for domestic services; this has recently been awarded, but there has been a challenge. These two fleets will be for different purposes and not intermixed.anyone have opinion?
Everything (almost) is possible if you have enough money, but if DSB where interested in operating them to Sweden and Norway they would probably have ordered them as multisystem units from the beginnng.It's Alstom, but i just wondered if DSB can refit them with 15KV so as to work on services to Sweden/Norway......
An option of extra 50 sets is available, btw my suggestion is just for the TEE 2.0 : TEE 19/20: Oslo – Malmö – Copenhagen or other rolling stock are suitable?Everything (almost) is possible if you have enough money, but if DSB where interested in operating them to Sweden and Norway they would probably have ordered them as multisystem units from the beginnng.
I think the most likely operator of Oslo-Copenhagen in the near future is SJ, they could extend their Copenhagen-Gothenburg X2000s to Oslo.