Dual-Voltage

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TrainBoy98

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Hi, does anyone have a comprehensive list of Dual-Voltage trains/locos (if there is any?) that they can post as im trying to get a list for an idea of mine?

Thanks, Callum
 
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jopsuk

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Current classes:
377 - not all carry pantographs, but all could
375 - not all carry pantographs, and they never work under AC
313 - Southern operated have had pantographs removed
319
378 - not all have pantographs
395
365 - none have third rail shoes
350 - none have third rail shoes, only /1 have ever had them
376 - none have pantographs
450 - none have pantographs
444 - none have pantographs
458 - none have pantographs

92 - the only DV loco that's ever operated on the national network (SNCF BB22000s have been through the tunnel and got classified as Class 22, but the only DC they can use overhead 1500DC and they couldn't go beyond, at the time, Dollands Moor)
 

DaveNewcastle

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As I'm sure you are aware, there are sets capable of operating over more than two power systems (including differing voltages and polarisation (i.e. AC or DC)) over the one journey. The most demanding are cross-European, but even Eurostar units have had to cope with more than 2.
So my question to you is this:
Do you really want someone to give you a list of the types which are capable of operating under just 2 different power supplies, or do you want someone to give you a list of those which are capable of operating under 2 or more power supplies?

(Much as I dislike Wikipedia, I'm sure that it, and other sites specialising in railway technical information, will have comprehensive (and possibly accurate) lists.)
 

Monty

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Current classes:
377 - not all carry pantographs, but all could
375 - not all carry pantographs, and they never work under AC
313 - Southern operated have had pantographs removed
319
378 - not all have pantographs
395
365 - none have third rail shoes
350 - none have third rail shoes, only /1 have ever had them
376 - none have pantographs
450 - none have pantographs
444 - none have pantographs
458 - none have pantographs

92 - the only DV loco that's ever operated on the national network (SNCF BB22000s have been through the tunnel and got classified as Class 22, but the only DC they can use overhead 1500DC and they couldn't go beyond, at the time, Dollands Moor)

I was under the impression the 350/1s still retained their shoegear?
 

ainsworth74

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Dont 373s have 3rd rail capability for when they used to run over the classic lines to waterloo

As far as I'm aware those systems have been removed from the 373s as they're now redundant, but I believe we have at least one member who'd be able to comment further (if they spot this thread).

I was lead to believe its retained in a cupboard on depot.

This is also my understanding of the situation. They have reverted to a 'fitted for but not with' position, but it shouldn't be a big task to re-enable it I would have thought.
 

es373

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As far as 373's are concerned the above is not strictly true, shoe gear current collectors and the 750vDC HSCB was removed but there are still many components still there as removing it all would be extremely time consuming and require a software update on the tornad network. Everything 3rd rail will be removed on the half life refurb though.

We currently run (no pun intended) on 25kVAC (sometimes slightly higher as the French load the OHL with more voltage in peak times as there are more trains in sections drawing more current, therefor upping the voltage doesn't hae an impact on stock performance when in traction), 3kVDC and 1500vDC.
Surprisingly we don't lose a great deal of performance on DC voltage like most other stock (you can really feel it on 395's)

Although dual/tri voltage is good on paper, I don't deem it very worthy as DC equipment is usually a LOT bigger than AC, also you need more substations on DC than you do with AC which obviously leads to higher costing.
 
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Class377/5

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I was lead to believe its retained in a cupboard on depot.

There was a discussion last year on the Yahoo group over this. Believe it was settled when it was noted that the shoes are still there but cabled tied in the upright position to make rue it doesn't interfer with any high ballast.

The 377's can do this automatically (and do so when on the WCML and Thameslink).
 

Jonny

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<edited>
92 - the only DV loco that's ever operated on the national network (SNCF BB22000s have been through the tunnel and got classified as Class 22, but the only DC they can use overhead 1500DC and they couldn't go beyond, at the time, Dollands Moor)

I presume overhead 1500VDC, as the Tyne and Wear Metro. So, would the SNCF BB22000s be able to run off the Tyne and Wear Metro OLE? (thinking of the part on NwR tracks)

How hard would it be to add that functionality to the Class 92s, if they don't have it buried in their system already?

In fact, is there anything that would be able to run off both the Pelaw-Sunderland OLE and the NwR/Channel Tunnel Standard 25kV OLE?
 

swt_passenger

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I was lead to believe its retained in a cupboard on depot.

There are three components to the 'shoe gear'. The shoe beam, the hinged shoe arm, and the shoe itself. The shoe beam is still fitted. The shoe arm isn't clearly visible when in the raised position, because it is behind the shoe beam. I posted a photo of this in an earlier discussion but I can't be bothered to do it again..
 

MCR247

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I thought 365s aren't actually dual voltage? I thought they could just work on AC and DC but not at the same time? As in to change voltages it is a conversion type thing?
 

D365

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I thought 365s aren't actually dual voltage? I thought they could just work on AC and DC but not at the same time? As in to change voltages it is a conversion type thing?

I believe they were designed to be dual-voltage in service, but no unit has ever run with both pickup systems in service. I have heard that 365502 had a pantograph as well as shoegear, as it was run on OHLE during testing. This is supposed to be why the unit was subleased to WAGN after Potter's Bar.
 

TGV

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As far as 373's are concerned the above is not strictly true, shoe gear current collectors and the 750vDC HSCB was removed but there are still many components still there as removing it all would be extremely time consuming and require a software update on the tornad network. Everything 3rd rail will be removed on the half life refurb though.

We currently run (no pun intended) on 25kVAC (sometimes slightly higher as the French load the OHL with more voltage in peak times as there are more trains in sections drawing more current, therefor upping the voltage

The Gare du Nord area has some very high transient voltage spikes - often in excess of 35kV for very short (milliseconds) periods. The highest line voltage experienced en route to Paris is often on HS1 between Nashenden and Lenham.
 

WatcherZero

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The Germans used to run overheads at 50kv but with half the frequency of 25kv....
 

es373

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The Gare du Nord area has some very high transient voltage spikes - often in excess of 35kV for very short (milliseconds) periods. The highest line voltage experienced en route to Paris is often on HS1 between Nashenden and Lenham.

This is true although I was told by one of our drivers that in the peak times OHL voltage is upped a bit as to not put a damper on train performance?

Do you work at Le Landy then TGV?
 

jopsuk

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The Germans used to run overheads at 50kv but with half the frequency of 25kv....

Are you sure about that? Their standard is 15kV, 16 2/3Hz

There are a small number of 50kV systems, but they're all either 50Hz or 60Hz, and are isolated heavy freight systems.
 

millemille

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I thought 365s aren't actually dual voltage? I thought they could just work on AC and DC but not at the same time? As in to change voltages it is a conversion type thing?

This is correct.

They weren't delivered as dual voltage capable and have since had various modifications to solve traction supply specific issues which preclude them from running dual voltage.

There is also a significant piece of DC supply specific safety/protection equipment that failed a certification mandated test on the 16 ex SET units just before they left SET operation and which precludes them from running on DC until resolved.
 

TGV

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This is true although I was told by one of our drivers that in the peak times OHL voltage is upped a bit as to not put a damper on train performance?

Do you work at Le Landy then TGV?

I do work at Le Landy from time to time, yes. I am a travelling field engineer for various TGV fleet related technical issues.
 

es373

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Keep your hands off my 373s ;)

How do you find the job? May well see you soon as I think I'm spending a few days at Calais Frethun.
 

TGV

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Best job in the world as far as I'm concerned! I've worked on TMST before for a few years back in NPI days.

Frethun is the coldest station in France! What takes you there?
 

es373

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Asked for a few days as in service tech, still awaiting answer!

How much room have you got in the power cars on the atlantiques? We got about 13" from common bloc to power car wall. :/
Hate module humping!
 
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