Dudley Freightliner Terminal

[MarkWi72]

Does anyone from the Black Country or wider West Midlands area recall the Dudley Freightliner Terminal?Did anyone work there? It closed in September 1986. It sat adjacent the Stourbridge - Walsall freight only line (this closed in 1991).

As a youngster, I recall the Dudley-Glasgow freightliner, 4S50. I grew up near to Dudley Port and remember the bow like route it took, in order to go North. It would head to Bescot , via the South Staffs Freight line, usually hauled by a 45 or 47. It would then get an electric, or pair of (usually 86/87 ), at Bescot. Then it would travel along the Grand Junction line to Perry Barr, head to the Soho Triangle and head north along the Stour Valley, crossing the low level line, which it had originally traveled along at Dudley Port.

I am certain that was the only train, per day, at the end of the Terminal's working life. It was one of very few freight workings along the Stour Valley line in the 1980s - the other two I recall was 6F57 BOC (Class 40/double headed 25s) and the Oil tankers from the Albion Oil Depot near Oldbury to Stanlow/Stanlow to Albion. I forget where the BOC tanks were going to/from.

 

[Azzawba92]

There's a lot about it on google as i've had a good mooch myself, although i'm sure there's a few on here who should know. Would like to know more myself as I too live in dudley port & love digging up information on the closed lines around here.

The stourbridge to walsall line closed in 93 I believe, but i wouldn't be old enough to remember anything anyway aha. Network west midlands are currently clearing a lot of debris & foliage from the tracks for the proposed reopening with the metro using it from wednesbury to merry hill. I think they're waiting on the budget in December from the government to see if it gets the go ahead.

 

[Harbornite]

There's a lot about it on google as i've had a good mooch myself, although i'm sure there's a few on here who should know. Would like to know more myself as I too live in dudley port & love digging up information on the closed lines around here.

The stourbridge to walsall line closed in 93 I believe, but i wouldn't be old enough to remember anything anyway aha. Network west midlands are currently clearing a lot of debris & foliage from the tracks for the proposed reopening with the metro using it from wednesbury to merry hill. I think they're waiting on the budget in December from the government to see if it gets the go ahead.

Apparrently, according to some people at the midland metro alliance, there are also plans to reopen the heavy rail line from Round Oak to Walsall. Here's hoping that actually happens.

On another note, this site has some good pics of the south staffs line between Wednesbury and Pleck jn in its last few years of operation; However there aren't many pics of trains from Dudley FLT or the terminal itself.

http://bescotplus.co.uk

 

[Darkinsider]

deleted

 

[Azzawba92]

Apparrently, according to some people at the midland metro alliance, there are also plans to reopen the heavy rail line from Round Oak to Walsall. Here's hoping that actually happens.

On another note, this site has some good pics of the south staffs line between Wednesbury and Pleck jn in its last few years of operation; However there aren't many pics of trains from Dudley FLT or the terminal itself.

http://bescotplus.co.uk

I found that myself but couldn't remember the link to post in here haha

& yes I too have heard about the metro line sharing with freight although only whispers

 

[MarkWi72]

Thanks folks, interesting comments and links. I have heard the Metro might share the line with freight trains, but I am not sure how concrete that is. My father has also heard 'rumours'.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

As I recall ,Dudley had an Anglo-Scottish service , a local to Nottingham and the famous "Simplon Orient" - which was Cardiff - Dudley - Leeds - Newcastle - catering for a wide range of intermediate flows attuned to Welsh steel / Alcan / and beer.

One of the first terminals , and easily knocked out when the Freightliner markets changed from domestic flows to European and Deep Sea (for which Lawley Street was very much better suited with the WCML axis and the Customs Depot / Inland Port) alongside) ....I think the first FLL terminal to go was Sheffield (almost all steel traffics)

 

[ChiefPlanner]

During some disruption , before Xmas around 1980 ,I despatched the Glasgow - Dudley liner , it was 2 x 86 , well loaded with Royal Mail containers , beer and Scotch , and Carron Company cast iron bathtubs in open containers. Some God forsaken hour of the morning.

We had an operating incident before departure , but we wont go into that now. Book material.

 

[MarkWi72]

As I recall ,Dudley had an Anglo-Scottish service , a local to Nottingham and the famous "Simplon Orient" - which was Cardiff - Dudley - Leeds - Newcastle - catering for a wide range of intermediate flows attuned to Welsh steel / Alcan / and beer.

One of the first terminals , and easily knocked out when the Freightliner markets changed from domestic flows to European and Deep Sea (for which Lawley Street was very much better suited with the WCML axis and the Customs Depot / Inland Port) alongside) ....I think the first FLL terminal to go was Sheffield (almost all steel traffics)

Yes, the "Anglo-Scottish" was 4S50.

 

[RichmondCommu]

Where abouts was the Freightliner depot in Sheffield?

 

[gg1]

As a youngster, I recall the Dudley-Glasgow freightliner, 4S50. I grew up near to Dudley Port and remember the bow like route it took, in order to go North. It would head to Bescot , via the South Staffs Freight line, usually hauled by a 45 or 47. It would then get an electric, or pair of (usually 86/87 ), at Bescot. Then it would travel along the Grand Junction line to Perry Barr, head to the Soho Triangle and head north along the Stour Valley, crossing the low level line, which it had originally traveled along at Dudley Port.

Out of interest do you know why it didn't reverse at Bescot and take the more direct route north via Willenhall? As there was a loco change required at Bescot anyway, a reversal there would seem to be more logical.

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Where abouts was the Freightliner depot in Sheffield?

Sheffield FLT was situated on the old Masborough Sorting Sidings outside Rotherham, north of Tinsley Yard.

We inherited some staff from there to the thriving Felixstowe operation , they were a very long way from home. Demise was said to be down to the improved motorway network at the time , plus concentration on bulk movements in trainloads for steel and products.

 

[Dr Hoo]

The Rotherham terminal has been re-activated in recent years, sometimes referred to as "Newell & Wright", not "Freightliner" any more.

 

[Saltleyman]

There was a Cardiff to Edinburgh F/Liner (4S88) which used to call at Dudley to detach and attach vehicles , and went forward via Wednesbury, Walsall,Lichfield and Alrewas to Derby. It was worked by a Saltley crew between Worcester and derby.
.

 

[MarkWi72]

Vaguely remember 4S88. Thanks for the reminder! Most trains were steel or class 6 railfreight over the South Staffs line.

 

[AJE]

I worked at Dudley Fl T for two years 1973-75 before moving onto BR at Bescot.
The trains from Dudley were:
4S50 1935 SX Dudley-Glasgow Gushetfaulds [later with a portion to Clydeport].
4M51 22.35 SX Glasgow-Dudley 0536 SX
4S88 SX Cardiff Pengam - Edinburgh Portobello [Dudley approx. 19.45 - 20.45]
4V73 SX Edinburgh-Cardiff
4E66 SX Swansea - Sheffield, later truncated to 4M83 Swansea-Dudley
4V60 MX Sheffield [later Dudley] - Swansea
4E65 01.45 MX Dudley - Newcastle Follingsby / Stockton
4M61 Newcastle Follingsby / Stockton - Dudley
4S88 later carried a 1x5 set from Cardiff for Stockton attached to 4E65 with similar arrangements in the return direction.
4S50 and 4M51 were powered by whatever was available at Bescot, usually 47s, although 40s made occasional forays.
4S88 and 4V73 were usually Peaks, although 47s were occasional interlopers.
4E66/ 4M83 and 4V60 were a mix of Peaks and 47s.
4E65 and 4M61 were usually Peaks.

The Seagulls worked Saltley-Worcester-4S88-Derby-Saltley

There was an article in Backtrack about three or four years ago regarding the terminal composed by myself.

Regards

Al

 

[ChiefPlanner]

I worked at Dudley Fl T for two years 1973-75 before moving onto BR at Bescot.
The trains from Dudley were:
4S50 1935 SX Dudley-Glasgow Gushetfaulds [later with a portion to Clydeport].
4M51 22.35 SX Glasgow-Dudley 0536 SX
4S88 SX Cardiff Pengam - Edinburgh Portobello [Dudley approx. 19.45 - 20.45]
4V73 SX Edinburgh-Cardiff
4E66 SX Swansea - Sheffield, later truncated to 4M83 Swansea-Dudley
4V60 MX Sheffield [later Dudley] - Swansea
4E65 01.45 MX Dudley - Newcastle Follingsby / Stockton
4M61 Newcastle Follingsby / Stockton - Dudley
4S88 later carried a 1x5 set from Cardiff for Stockton attached to 4E65 with similar arrangements in the return direction.
4S50 and 4M51 were powered by whatever was available at Bescot, usually 47s, although 40s made occasional forays.
4S88 and 4V73 were usually Peaks, although 47s were occasional interlopers.
4E66/ 4M83 and 4V60 were a mix of Peaks and 47s.
4E65 and 4M61 were usually Peaks.

The Seagulls worked Saltley-Worcester-4E65-Derby-Saltley

There was an article in Backtrack about three or four years ago regarding the terminal composed by myself.

Regards

Al

That was a great article - I had some dealings - as a trainee in the Cardiff area , and once (shock horror - doing some strike breaking at Gushefaulds in a freezing December night - (supervisory and clerical dispute so management was despatched to work the terminal ! ) ..I went out to deal with the despatch of 4M51 , and inadvertently switched the 2 x 86 onto an unwired road , the old boy driver realised in a flash (before the flash of running off the wires) , dropped the pans , and pulled up off the wires - I went and apologised profusely and he assumed I was a trainee shunter and we got the 08 to pull them back onto the juice , coupled up and brake tested etc and away about 10 late. Top man. (and I learned another lesson) - fair bit of traffic on the southbound Dudley were Royal Mail boxes and the products of the Carron Company ....cast iron piller boxes etc...

 

[Taunton]

The big sideswipe smash at Weaver Junction around this time was, I believe, the Gushetfaulds-Dudley Freightliner, including a substantial load of Scotch whisky, and a bulk freight coming from ICI at Runcorn conveying soda ash. Whereupon it was known as the "whisky and soda" collision. The twisted containers were visible piled in a field on the down side long after the accident and the restoration, though I guess the contents had disappeared ...

 

[AJE]

I seem to recall an incident on 4S50 at a time when a shortage of stanchions and side panels for H and K type containers existed. Frequent requests to Fl HQ for supplies went unheeded so the loads went forward with the absolute bare minimum of equipment available. One night three loads of bricks went north on 4S50 with little more than the tarpaulins for safety. One load collapsed and scattered on Warrington Bank Quay station, smashing the windows in the [fortunately closed] waiting room. Another load collapsed and scattered to the right hand side of the train into a southbound overnight sleeper train.
The following night an L type came down from Gushetfaulds packed from front to back and floor to ceiling with H and K type equipment.

AJ

 

[AJE]

Yes, the "Anglo-Scottish" was 4S50.

During my tenure at Dudley 4S88 / 4V73 ran direct between Dudley and Follingsby not calling at Stourton. Anything to/from Leeds [and Hull and Immingham] went via Sheffield on 4E66 / 4V60. Leeds to Newcastle was catered for by the Garston - Trafford Park - Leeds - Newcastle/Stockton, one set of wagons performing the return trip the same night, offloaded and reloaded at the eastern end. When 4E66 became 4M83 Swansea - Dudley only, anything for Sheffield, Hull, Leeds, etc., went via Landor Street and Willesden ! although we later [accidentally] found an alternative route on 4E65 via Newcastle

Regards Al

 

[ChiefPlanner]

4S88 / 4V73 were known as "The Simplon Orient"

The latter rain into Cardiff one am , with a freezing cold tramp on it , presumably boarded somewhere enroute and had what must have been a terrifying and extremely cold journey down the Severn side. He was on and open container.

I seem to recall an incident on 4S50 at a time when a shortage of stanchions and side panels for H and K type containers existed. Frequent requests to Fl HQ for supplies went unheeded so the loads went forward with the absolute bare minimum of equipment available. One night three loads of bricks went north on 4S50 with little more than the tarpaulins for safety. One load collapsed and scattered on Warrington Bank Quay station, smashing the windows in the [fortunately closed] waiting room. Another load collapsed and scattered to the right hand side of the train into a southbound overnight sleeper train.
The following night an L type came down from Gushetfaulds packed from front to back and floor to ceiling with H and K type equipment.

AJ

Mr Waller let you down did he - ? - the "King" of container distribution. Later a running controller ....."Tufty"

This brings back all sorts of memories - the most carefully watched "L" type ever - was 81L26 ....I carried some personal stuff from Swansea to Felixstowe on it via Stratford ....consigned as "urgent equipment - Terminal Manager" .....

 

[AJE]

Mr Waller let you down did he - ? - the "King" of container distribution. Later a running controller ....."Tufty"

This brings back all sorts of memories - the most carefully watched "L" type ever - was 81L26 ....I carried some personal stuff from Swansea to Felixstowe on it via Stratford ....consigned as "urgent equipment - Terminal Manager" .....

Acquisition of empty containers frequently required ad-hoc liaison between terminals rather than relying on Container Control, e.g. Dudley would be short of N's but awash with L's, Landor Street vice versa, so plenty of empty running by road between the two. One of the Beeston drivers came over each evening with 2 x L for NCL Cardiff and Swansea [John Players traffic] and invariably loaded back with 2 x empty L from either Dudley or Landor Street, Container Control having failed to provide sufficient empties via the established routes.

Regarding 'special loads', one week in 1975 the local bakery workers commenced industrial action, so bread and cakes on ration locally. On the Friday morning 4M51 arrival one of the L's had a load marked T M Dudley packed full of bread and cakes collected by Gushetfaulds to feed the needy.
Thanks lads!
But I did get some envious looks from the early morning bread queue as I walked down the road, contraband bursting from my snap bag!

 

[muddythefish]

Really interesting read - thanks for the contributions.

There's a few more short-lived terminals such as Nottingham, Edinburgh, Bristol, Swansea, Aberdeen, Dundeee (?). Does anyone have any stories about these ?

 

[ChiefPlanner]

Really interesting read - thanks for the contributions.

There's a few more short-lived terminals such as Nottingham, Edinburgh, Bristol, Swansea, Aberdeen, Dundeee (?). Does anyone have any stories about these ?

Swansea hosted a 5 set from Fishguard for a short while , which was economically attached to a Paddington boat train and detached at Llanelli , run down to the Danygraig Terminal and attached to 4E70 for Stratford via a call at Cardiff.

Much of the inwards traffic was fish - sometimes conveyed in open containers , though sheeted. One day a box of fish somehow came loose and crashed to the deck whilst shunting. A now departed Supervisor saw this and rescued the box , cooked some of it after departure , and as he relaxed was handed an urgent telex to read. He ran outside and made himself violently sick.

One of the staff had spotted this , rang Fishguard on the internal phone and got them to send a telex urging Swansea to remove that particular container as the contents were unfit for human consumption .....

Of course , the "prank" was explained in due course.....

 

[Matt hollyoak]

Is there anybody on here that worked at the dudley freightliner depot? .
I have many fond memories of the place my father worked there as a driver.

 

[Chris Horne]

I worked at Dudley Freightliner in the office from about '75 to '76 fond memories.

We had more to do with the truck drivers than the trains, making up the day's delivery schedules and organising the train consists for loading the containers onto the wagons. There was a big magnetic board with a row for each of the roads and a space for the storage area with a label for each container.
When a train was due out we'd copy the details onto telex to the destination depot.
There are lots of stories
for example
A driver picking up a trailer with a 25 ton coil of steel with a 16 ton tractor unit and trying to make the incline up to the traffic lights. If the lights were red at the top, he had to roll back down to have another go as the clutch wouldn't survive a hill start !
A container of mining trucks in a 40' container breaking loose on the road between Birmingham and Dudley and having to be escorted VERY slowly.

What I remember most though was that everyone was friendly, it had the same feel as BR where I worked previously.
And we had a very generous Christmas box from Distillers Company, ( probably to dissuade us from pilfering the trains bring whisky down from Scotland)

 

[AJE]

Regarding the somewhat convoluted route taken y 4S50/4M51between BS and Stafford there are several reasons which may all or part of the answer.

Freightliner and BRB HQ wagon control disliked the idea of reversing trains en route, firstly due to the possibility of 'swingers' [wagons with the brakes isolated] within the formation. This was not normally a problem with individual wagons but a complete set at the rear of the train could create problems, the Carlisle derailment being a classic example.
C

 

[MarkWi72]

Interesting. Yes, it never reversed as it went through Bescot , changed locos , then continued in formation. So, fro S. Staffs line, through the Grand Junction, back to the Stour Valley Line and onwards north.

 

[AJE]

Further to the convoluted routing of 4S50 and 4M51, apparently during the early years of the service [1968 to 1971] with a Bescot class 47 allocated to power the train throughout, the timetabled route was via Walsall, the Cannock Chase line and Rugeley, thence the WCML in both directions. The route revision came with the completion of the WCML electrification and the requirement to change traction somewhere in the local area. Until 1973 4S50 comprised 3 x 5 wagon and 1 x 2 wagon sets with the 2-set always at the south end of the formation. This set was always unloaded on arrival and loaded prior to departure using the train loco to 'draw up' the whole train, hence a further reason to ensure that no reversal occurred en route. From 1973 to 1975 the train comprised 3 x 5 sets only, but then a 1 x 5 wagon set was added for Clydeport. This never entered Gushetfaulds terminal, being held outside in both directions pending remarshalling with the [main] portion from Longsight, hence even further reluctance to allow any reversals.

AJ

 

[Dr Hoo]

I can’t help but think of the recent Caledonian Sleeper ‘runaway’ at Edinburgh after splitting and reversal at Carstairs.

With the best will in the world there are always risks when cutting off rakes of air-braked vehicles especially on a running line (rather than a yard or terminal) when there is the added pressure of wanting to ‘clear’ things quickly.

Not involving container flats but during the Speedlink era I discovered a regular trip working that involved a mixture of air braked and vacuum braked-air piped wagons that ran round en route and exposed the piped wagons as swingers. There was no ‘reversed’ TOPS list produced for the second leg. When I queried this with the originating yard staff I just got a shrug and “Well, it’s dead level along there”. (The practice was not allowed to continue.)