Durham Coast + Horden/Peterlee - time for a revamp?

[70014IronDuke]

I don't have line speed suggestions, although raising to some extent must be doable. Also reinstating the second platform at Hartlepool is an obvious one

I presume you mean it would be needed for any increase in frequency, rather than it proving to be a bottleneck today?

I've been looking at the May 2018 timetables today (top secret and that) and what I would say is that while it's still hourly, the line will get a much better evening/night service, at least from Newcastle. I hadn't quite realised just how bad it was

The Northern Connect route is still undecided. Yes, Stilington is the preference but it needs upgrading, would increase calls for Ferryhill to be reopened, and would annoy Sunderland in leaving them off the Northern Connect map when we claim that it's supposed to link all the northern towns over 85,000 (even though we do have a disclaimer for that). Added to that, the 158s aren't quick enough for the ECML in its current/future congested state, which also rules out taking it via Darlington, and new trains in the North East region would need Heaton to be upgraded

The downside is the Durham Coast line is very slow and indirect, and the whole point of the Middlesbrough-Newcastle section is to get people directly between those two places quickly - it's aimed at car users. It would also probably mean having to upgrade one or two of the stations to Northern Connect standard. But it looks the most likely scenario at the moment. So at least there's that

At the moment, you seem to be saying it's Stillington or Durham coast? Given the current stock/cash/traffic limitations, I can understand, but medium-term, I think it should be both.

The coast route is never going to facilitate a decent Teeside-Tyneside service in terms of timings. So let's do that via Stillington (and let's re-open Ferryhill to boot) - but let's also work on the Durham coast to exploit the untapped traffic from Sunderland, Pools, Seaham etc.

 

[backontrack]

You are asking that? On a railway forum? hock:

Dang.

Poole has the station code POO so what odds Peterlee could have .....?

Looking at a map, wouldn't it be slightly disingenuous calling the station Peterlee when it would only be on the outskirts of Horden anyway?

Horden-Peterlee makes more sense as names go. You wouldn't have PEE that way

Or, you could go the whole hog and go for Peterlee Parkway...

At the moment, you seem to be saying it's Stillington or Durham coast? Given the current stock/cash/traffic limitations, I can understand, but medium-term, I think it should be both.

The coast route is never going to facilitate a decent Teeside-Tyneside service in terms of timings. So let's do that via Stillington (and let's re-open Ferryhill to boot) - but let's also work on the Durham coast to exploit the untapped traffic from Sunderland, Pools, Seaham etc.

Heavily agree. It's a shame that the Teesside Metro idea was scrapped - this fits in with it rather well.

I wonder how many passengers actually travel between the stations between Sunderland-Nunthorpe and Blaydon-Hexham. Actually, these services (Nunthorpe-Hexham) could change after Northern Connect comes into play...

 

[cuccir]

To be boring about it, HOD is not taken so we may not get to have a PEE

 

[158756]

Do the numbers mentioned above justify a better service of the type suggested by several posters? We also need to work out who pays for the services. That better services are need isnt in doubt. I just urge that we produce services that actually fit a need or can generate sufficient traffic to justify them not ones that look nice on paper or suit a deisre for uniformity. It is worth pointing out for the benefit of off comers that employment opportunities in this part of the north east are even worse than the general north east outlook.

my personal view is that the services need to be focused on Middlebsrough and Newcastle rather than Darlo. Connections with ECML services can be made at Boro. I think to run to Darlo takes away paths on the coast and creates timetable conflict at Darlo that can be avoided. I am sure the focus should be Middlesbrough.



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Hartlepool is I think one of the most used stations in the North with a 1tph standard service. I've no idea how many people from Middlesbrough travel up the Durham Coast, but the problem as I see it with extra services is that the biggest market, Sunderland, is well catered for by the Metro, Hartlepool aside none of the intermediate stations have much demand, and the line is rather too slow, even with a limited stop service, to attract great numbers from Middlesbrough.

 

[John Taylor]

Hartlepool is I think one of the most used stations in the North with a 1tph standard service. I've no idea how many people from Middlesbrough travel up the Durham Coast, but the problem as I see it with extra services is that the biggest market, Sunderland, is well catered for by the Metro, Hartlepool aside none of the intermediate stations have much demand, and the line is rather too slow, even with a limited stop service, to attract great numbers from Middlesbrough.

Well the Sunday service to Darlington often runs completely empty so not all services are busy.

 

[30907]

before privatisation, there used to be an hourly service from Darlo to Hartlepool

That would have gone several years before privatisation? Otherwise it would have been written in stone in the original franchise. The Sunday service survives as a Parly and is presumably so inscribed!
(Rather lost its purpose now GC go to H'pool, but they aren't under any obligation to operate...)

 

[geoffk]

Thanks for looking that up. I DID think it had two trains per hour down the coast - but I thought the second train was a Hartelpool - Newcastle service.

Whatever, the Durham coast line south of Sunderland has suffered a significant loss of service by losing those Pools - Darlington trains. Surprising, considering the general growth in traffic and services in the past two decades. Maybe local governments are just not rail-orientated.

I worked for Durham County Council's public transport unit in the late 1970s and Newton Aycliffe station was opened during that period (early 1978). There were plans for Horden and both DCC and BR seemed to be keen on pursuing it and I don't remember now whether the stumbling blocks were just financial or the difficulty in identifying a site.

 

[3270]

That would have gone several years before privatisation? Otherwise it would have been written in stone in the original franchise. The Sunday service survives as a Parly and is presumably so inscribed!
(Rather lost its purpose now GC go to H'pool, but they aren't under any obligation to operate...)

From memory the weekday Hartlepool - Darlington service stopped around 1991, give or take a year. The Middlesbrough - Whitby service got reduced to the current 4 trains a day at the same time. It was all a bit last minute. I remember a new GBTT timetable book being published with the Hartlepool and Whitby services still included but the Supplement that came with the GBTT, which contained the last minute changes, cancelled them. I seem to recall the Government telling BR to make urgent economies? Prior to cancellation the Hartlepool - Darlington service had been unreliable anyway due to stock shortages caused by the problems with the original Pacer gearboxes, the Hartlepool service was always the first to get cancelled.
Also around this time the Sectorisation of BR was in full swing. Every line had a Prime User responsible for funding maintenance of that line. The freight only lines would have had Trainload Freight or RfD as prime user and they had a review of all their lines to see if any could be closed. That included the Stillington line (Norton - Ferryhill) and Eaglescliffe - Northallerton (there were no TPE services to Middlesbrough at this point). The latter would have been closed by reinstating an East to South curve at Darlington South junction so that freight from Teesside and the Coast line could travel via Dindsdale then the ECML to Northallerton. Thankfully that didn't happen. All in all it was a pretty grim time.

 

[mildertduck]

One of the things that really is popular is the hourly number 24 bus from Durham to Hartlepool. This takes about 90 minutes. If a direct train service could do this (a) faster and (b) cheaper than the bus, it would be popular!

 

[70014IronDuke]

I worked for Durham County Council's public transport unit in the late 1970s and Newton Aycliffe station was opened during that period (early 1978). There were plans for Horden and both DCC and BR seemed to be keen on pursuing it and I don't remember now whether the stumbling blocks were just financial or the difficulty in identifying a site.

Hmmm. Sad to hear.

One of the things that really is popular is the hourly number 24 bus from Durham to Hartlepool. This takes about 90 minutes. If a direct train service could do this (a) faster and (b) cheaper than the bus, it would be popular!

Interesting that you mention this route. I believe at one time there used to be a Durham - Pools line via Thornley (can anyone confirm?) I have no idea when it closed to passenger, perhaps even pre-WW2. I expect it was mainly colliery traffic rather than passenger, of course.

 

[Graham Hall]

There was a line from Ferryhill to Hartlepool but passenger services ceased in 1952.

 

[Poolie]

Hartlepool to Durham could still be done direct via Norton east/west and onto the ECML !!

 

[70014IronDuke]

There was a line from Ferryhill to Hartlepool but passenger services ceased in 1952.

Apols. I thought there was a line from Durham. In fact, it seems that Thornley station was on the Sunderland and Hartlepool Railway, quite a long walk from Thornley. (If it had been GWR, it would have been "Thornley Road" !)