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Dutchflyer
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In answer to my own question. Did get off at Delft on return. On no occasion on whole return trip was my ticket checked, so have no idea if I was correct to do so. In contrast, on trams in Den Haag, teams of 3 or 4 quasi-police control staff, regularly board checking tickets.
Can't imagine anyone would dare travel without a ticket-Scary!
Can't imagine anyone would dare travel without a ticket-Scary!
gordonthemoron
Established Member
I did Dutchflyer Ely-Utrecht last year. Ticket was not checked at all in Holland
j0hn0
Member
I guarantee though that if you travelled without a ticket, that would be the day that the conductors get on the train.
I did it once as I hadn't renewed my monthly pass, just thought it would be fine for 2 days and trains from Haarlem are always packed in the morning and conductors cannot get through the train.
But no, there wasa team of them and i had to pay 40 and the price of the ticket, needless to say i didnt do it again.
For me, this is the best way to police fare evading.
Its the same on Düsseldorf trams, it normally looks like a tramp has got on the tram, then you realise he has a digital reader in his hands and goes through the whole tram. Work pays for my pass so I don't fall foul of this one
I did it once as I hadn't renewed my monthly pass, just thought it would be fine for 2 days and trains from Haarlem are always packed in the morning and conductors cannot get through the train.
But no, there wasa team of them and i had to pay 40 and the price of the ticket, needless to say i didnt do it again.
For me, this is the best way to police fare evading.
Its the same on Düsseldorf trams, it normally looks like a tramp has got on the tram, then you realise he has a digital reader in his hands and goes through the whole tram. Work pays for my pass so I don't fall foul of this one
Drimnagh Road
Member
I believe that their way of undertaking a "blitz" on trains are very successful in revenue protection. Didn't Mersey Rail go over to study this model?
Must do a Dutch Flyer myself soon, that massive new 50,000 gross tone Stena Hollandica is entering service this month on the night time sailing from Harwich.
Must do a Dutch Flyer myself soon, that massive new 50,000 gross tone Stena Hollandica is entering service this month on the night time sailing from Harwich.
Wow, so if I got a return from Peterborough to Roodeschool on the North Sea coast near the German border, I'd be able to work in a hell of a lot of varying Dutch mileage in for £70 return!
Probably cost almost that to get from here to Peterborough and back!
Probably cost almost that to get from here to Peterborough and back!
True. I won't travel overnight!
Whatever happened to the civilised old days of being able to sit up on the seats if that was what you wanted?
True, still an option on ferries to Ireland. Though comparing Stena to Ireland and to Holland, I do welcome ability to get access to a cabin a few hours before sailing, as is available on Dutch crossing, rather than on the overnight Irish crossing, where 3/4 hours is the most chance of sleep you get.
The ability to get a cabin is one thing, but what happened to good old fashioned choice?
gordonthemoron
Established Member
it's probably due to stag parties going to Amsterdam for the weekend
Since people don't use cabins much on day crossings, it seems a very inefficient use of space to have to provide enough cabins for everyone on night crossings. You've almost got to have two boats in one: enough lounge space for the passengers on the day boat, and enough cabins for everyone on the night boat. The lounge is unused at night, and the cabins largely unused by day. Having fewer cabins and giving the option to stay on the cushions all night would not only mean less space given over to cabins, but better utilisation of the lounges across each 24 hour period. Fewer cabins = smaller boat = less fuel used = cheaper tickets and/or bigger profits = happier punters and/or shareholders (also happier environmentalists). Alternatively, the same size boat with some cabin space converted to lounges could carry more people on every crossing, which would also lead to lower prices/higher profits etc.
It all seems very strange to me.
It all seems very strange to me.
gordonthemoron
Established Member
I thought most space on the ferries was taken up by HGVs, followed by cars, not that much space being used up for passenger accommodation during the crossing?
Or are you harking back to the Sealink ferries of the 1970s which didn't carry vehicles?
One fact that might be relevant is that many passengers used to sleep on the floors and seats in the public areas. I can see that this might put off some travellers. Mind you, Stena could always insist that reclining seats must be booekd and used, rather than have people lying down all over the ship!!!
The height above the water of the superstructure does seem to be reasonably constant- or at least, related to the length and beam of the ship. Look at lorry-specailist ferries, they'll often have a high superstructure with accomodation at the front, and an uncovered deck towards the rear.
So, given the main constraint on a car ferry is useable car-deck length, it probably chnages fuel consumption little to effectively "block in" the rear superstructure.
Modern cross-channel, Irish Sea and North sea ferries are built around car passengers. There's little market on those routes for foot passngers, at least compared to car passengers. Budget airlines rule the foot market.
Go to the Adriatic and you'll find lots of ferries, operating on similarlry lengthy routes, with few cabins and lots of seats. It's what the market demands that rules.
So, given the main constraint on a car ferry is useable car-deck length, it probably chnages fuel consumption little to effectively "block in" the rear superstructure.
Modern cross-channel, Irish Sea and North sea ferries are built around car passengers. There's little market on those routes for foot passngers, at least compared to car passengers. Budget airlines rule the foot market.
Go to the Adriatic and you'll find lots of ferries, operating on similarlry lengthy routes, with few cabins and lots of seats. It's what the market demands that rules.
Whereas I was happy to sleep on seats when I was younger, I am more reluctant now I am older! Mrs G isn't keen either, and likes a good sleep at night in a proper bed!
Actually, I had a cabin in 1993, and got to bed at 0430. We were woken up at 0530 to announce that we would shortly be docking! I don't think I could do that these days!
Actually, I had a cabin in 1993, and got to bed at 0430. We were woken up at 0530 to announce that we would shortly be docking! I don't think I could do that these days!
While it's true that a large proportion of space is taken up by vehicles, any reduction in size of the superstructure will make a boat lighter and smaller. Not necessarily shorter, but certainly smaller as in less bulky. Compare for example the look of a freight only boat with a boat designed for a passenger route such as Harwich > Hoek.
I'm not that old!
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Fair enough, I'm sure I'd be the same if I was travelling with the wife, but it's about the ability to choose whether you want to sleep on the cushions or not, which may be as much a financial thing as anything else.
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Oh I agree absolutely with that point, I was just trying to think why the company won't offer that choice any more.
My first thought was that it must be some sort of Health & Safety lunacy, but clearly it isn't that because it doesn't apply across the board (e.g. on the Irish Sea).
No, which was why I was thinking it must be some sort of business based decision. I suspect a large majority of travellers on this route want a cabin, maybe Stena have decided the few budget travellers out to save money aren;t really worth the hassle? After all, they don't seem too bothered about foot passengers in general on ANY of their routes! I would offer reclining seat as per the old days myself, but they don;t seem to want to!
But my thinking was that whilst a large majority of passengers probably do want a cabin, this probably isn't true to anything like the same extent on the day sailings (which must use the same vessels if they're going to get decent utlisation out of them). Therefore lounge accomodation must exist for this market, so why don't they open it up at night to raise extra revenue?
I don't see that it's only foot passengers who would want to sleep on the cushions. Once you've driven on or walked up the gangplank you're just a passenger, and it seems just as likely that a strapped motorist would want a seat as a flush foot passenger would want a cabin.
I agree with your first point, but I do think it's more likely that car drivers (and their passengers) will want a cabin. Most car drivers will want to ensure they get a good night's rest, particularly after or before a long drive. They are more likely tog et that with a cabin than in a lounge. As I said though, I don't see what harm it would do to give a choice!
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