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Duty Free to the EU is Back

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Tetchytyke

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How much duty free is a Eurostar passenger going to be able to carry?

You'd be surprised at how much I managed to bring back in a hiking rucksack from the Carrefour at Cité Europe when I last did the Calais day trip ticket :lol:

Plenty of people do it on the Baltic sea. While it won't solve the problem, it might help.

Freight keeps the Baltic routes going.

It'll be a nice little earner on certain routes (I'm thinking the Newcastle-Amsterdam DFDS Party Boat) but I'd be astounded if it changes much. Even with Scandinavians as desperate to save money on alcohol duties as Brits, I doubt it'd be enough to bring the Norway and Denmark ferries back.

You don't see Condor Ferries packed to the gunwales despite duty free applying to and from the Channel Islands.
 
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Bald Rick

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When we were free and easy (pre children) , my wife and I managed to carry back (each) - about 18 bottles of red wine each - in a combo of a good rucksack - 2 wooden boxes with handles of 6 each (one n each hand) , plus food from the supermarket at Lille (close to the station) - to St Albans - in those days - EPS to Waterloo- drop back to London Bridge , forward to SAC (arrive platform 4 on a fast - and the obliging station staff unlocked the side gate to the car park for a level walk to the car)

So the answer is , quite a lot can be carried with a will. We were younger then.

It’s just as cheap at Morrison’s now, and probably less total distance for you to walk!
 

Mojo

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Glad to see the Spirits limit is going up. I always thought one litre was a bit stingy.

Not having been on holiday since February reminded me of how much I missed getting duty free. £14 for a bottle of Vodka in the supermarkets took me back a bit..!
 

ChiefPlanner

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It’s just as cheap at Morrison’s now, and probably less total distance for you to walk!

Yes I know - but in about 1979 - we did an epic overnight / day trip to Boulogne from Swansea , and I suspect we brought back the first ever French yoghurt ever consumed in Ammanford. Life is so standardised these days.

For the record - the return "boat train" in 1979 was formed of 4 VEP, 6 HAP. Filthy , so as an "about to be BR employee" - I found a mop at Dover Maritime and did a quick window clean. Went down well.
 

Starmill

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Since the juxtaposed controls are already established for immigration checks it seems likely that they will be expanded to perform customs checks too, in which case on-board duty free is probably unlikely given that under such an arrangement passengers would clear both sets of controls before boarding the train.

The availability and utilisation of space at both ends of the Eurostar "core" will be a major question for immigration controls too, since the end of the freedom of movement will mean a need for a full immigration check for all passengers at at least one end.
I've created this thread to discuss this further

 

Gloster

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Duty-free was never a major factor on the Harwich-Esbjerg or Gothenburg routes and the journey time made booze-cruises unattractive. Some, mostly off the Gothenburg ships, did make a hurried dash into Colchester or Ipswich for general shopping once or twice a year (there may have been organised coaches for this). They also came over to watch First Division football matches (the old Div. 1): you don’t want to share a cabin with an ardent Arsenal supporter from Vetlanda. Although alcohol is expensive in Scandinavia, Denmark is the least expensive of the countries, so reducing the attraction of duty-free on board. You could buy Gammel Dansk on board, but why anyone would want to I do not know.
 

BayPaul

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Unlikely.
I'll adjust that to just about worth having...

A £10 ticket certainly isn't worth the cost of running the bus from the terminal and employing an extra quartermaster to man the gangway. Add in the revenue on duty free and it probably just about is. Won't happen on the Dunkirk route, as those ships aren't fitted with a deck 5 walkway, but the Calais ones all are at present - clearly Dover turnaround times don't allow for boarding foot pax via the car deck.
It's marginal, but frankly the whole ferry market is pretty marginal, and has always been structured like this to take advantage of any extra profit centres on top of the main business. In the old days, rail pax were the bread and butter, with cars an add on, now freight is king and even cars are a marginal top up once the cost of going from 12pax to a full passenger certificate is added in.


--------
(edit, not sure why these two posts merged, below is a separate but related thought...)

One unexpected casualty will certainly be the cruise industry in Guernsey. It's a lovely place but a horrendously difficult port of call, and there is no doubt that 90% of calls are only to give cruises duty free status. DF is a fairly big deal for Cruise lines, not particularly for 'off licence' sales, but on board bar sales are big, and taxation is awkward and expensive. Anyone in doubt of this importance should look at how fast certain lines returned to Tunis after security incidents! Ports in France, NL and Belgium will certainly replace Guernsey as the duty free destination for short cruises and British Isles cruises.
On the plus side, I would expect to see a significant increase on cruises to Scotland in particular from Germany, at the expense of Norway.
 
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LNW-GW Joint

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It's a while ago now, but the Baltic ferries (Viking and Silja) diverted their non-stop Stockholm-Helsinki ferries to call in the Åland Islands to retain their duty free status after Finland and Sweden joined the EU.
Åland, despite being part of Finland, is guaranteed that status by historic treaty.
So duty free must have mattered enough to them to extend journey times and make a dead-of-night call.
(Stockholm-Åland-Turku is, of course, one of the most scenic ferry routes around, and very cheap for the distance as a deck passenger).
 

chorleyjeff

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Ah well.

I can't relocate to the EU quite as easily (though with a 2 letters before my name and 13 after at the last count, it ain't a problem for me) but I can drown my sorrows for a couple of quid less, so that's all OK. Oh no, wait, the pound will tank and it'll still end up more expensive even with no duty.

I feel really bloody sorry for those poor sods off to college/university this year. No future, a bent government and a mountain of debt.
Oh goody. Someone with a crystal ball even if it has an FPBE tag. At least the poor sods have the choice about going to uni which must be better than the 4% ( including Timmy nice but dim chaps through the odd boy network )in my day.
 

rf_ioliver

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Plenty of people do it on the Baltic sea. While it won't solve the problem, it might help. Combined with an increased environmental awareness (as can be seen in the expansion of Nightjet) some routes, maybe Esbjerg-Harwich, might return. Even if it is a small chance.

It is little more than an incentive here - there are some good deals however, but I'm fairly sure the duty free is more of a loss leader than anything. I can remember Viking Line (I think) offering free tickets for Helsinki-Stockholm if you spent 100eur. On those long routes though the money is made in the restaurants and bars (18 hours of partying there and 18 hours back). For the routes to Tallinn it is more about the price differential between Sweden, Finland and Estonia.
 

JonasB

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Freight keeps the Baltic routes going.

It'll be a nice little earner on certain routes (I'm thinking the Newcastle-Amsterdam DFDS Party Boat) but I'd be astounded if it changes much. Even with Scandinavians as desperate to save money on alcohol duties as Brits, I doubt it'd be enough to bring the Norway and Denmark ferries back.

Some routes on the Baltic are dependent on freight, others on duty free, others on on board restaurants/bars, and others on a combination. But for many routes the amount of freight is negligible as the car deck is mostly filled with private cars.

It's a while ago now, but the Baltic ferries (Viking and Silja) diverted their non-stop Stockholm-Helsinki ferries to call in the Åland Islands to retain their duty free status after Finland and Sweden joined the EU.
Åland, despite being part of Finland, is guaranteed that status by historic treaty.
So duty free must have mattered enough to them to extend journey times and make a dead-of-night call.

When Finland and Sweden joined the EU an exception for Åland was negotiated. The fear was that the loss of duty free sales on the ferries would cause the Baltic ferry industry to collapse, leaving Åland with a lot less connections to the rest of the world. And when Estonia joined the EU the Stockholm-Tallinn ferries added a stop on Åland in the middle of the night to be able to continue selling tax free alcohol.
 

paul1609

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Let’s be honest : who, apart from a few people who live near Dover, is going to get to Dover, get to the ferry terminal, and pay for a ferry ticket, just to save about £40 on 200 fags?
Given that Dover is only 1 hr 4 mins from St Pancras on HS1, quite a lot of people live near to Dover. I can forsee a desperate Southeastern with it revenue devastated by WFH running special booze trains to the ferry port. I'm not a Calais fan but theres an awful lot of attractive towns to take the misses to for lunch not far from the other side; Bologne, Le Touquet, Baie de la Somme etc
 

Starmill

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Given that Dover is only 1 hr 4 mins from St Pancras on HS1, quite a lot of people live near to Dover.
At enormous travel cost for the potential savings on offer. Even if they charged a flat £10 return, is it really going to appeal?
 

Bald Rick

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Given that Dover is only 1 hr 4 mins from St Pancras on HS1, quite a lot of people live near to Dover. I can forsee a desperate Southeastern with it revenue devastated by WFH running special booze trains to the ferry port. I'm not a Calais fan but theres an awful lot of attractive towns to take the misses to for lunch not far from the other side; Bologne, Le Touquet, Baie de la Somme etc

As a foot passenger on the ferry, how are you going to get from Calais port to Le Touquet?

And I’ll repeat, it’s going to cost you to get to Dover from London. Seems a lot of hassle to save a few quid on some fags.
 

Philip Phlopp

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As a foot passenger on the ferry, how are you going to get from Calais port to Le Touquet?

And I’ll repeat, it’s going to cost you to get to Dover from London. Seems a lot of hassle to save a few quid on some fags.

And that's before the 4 hour queue at French immigration, at the end of which you'll be expected to hand over €20 for a French day visitor visa waiver permit.
 

Starmill

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As a foot passenger on the ferry, how are you going to get from Calais port to Le Touquet?
I guess after the first long walk from Dover Priory to the terminal and the second long walk from the terminal to Calais Ville, a third long walk from Etaples - Le Touquet to the beach isn't too much!
 

Bald Rick

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I guess after the first long walk from Dover Priory to the terminal and the second long walk from the terminal to Calais Ville, a third long walk from Etaples - Le Touquet to the beach isn't too much!

Won’t be doing that on a day return...
 

BayPaul

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Given that Dover is only 1 hr 4 mins from St Pancras on HS1, quite a lot of people live near to Dover. I can forsee a desperate Southeastern with it revenue devastated by WFH running special booze trains to the ferry port. I'm not a Calais fan but theres an awful lot of attractive towns to take the misses to for lunch not far from the other side; Bologne, Le Touquet, Baie de la Somme etc
The trains also wouldn't be to the ferry port. A bus would be needed from Dover Priory to Eastern docks.
 

najaB

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Does it not depend on what type of deal there will (not) be? If there is a deal with free trade and potentially a customs union, duty free is not possible. So maybe this announcement is already a prediction of how far-reaching the deal will be.
There is zero chance of being in the customs union, it would require the U-turn to end all U-turns given the stance taken by the UK in the "negotiation" thus far.

As others have said, this is a drawback being dressed up as a benefit as the potential savings are pretty minimal: limited amount duty-free from France Vs as much as you can manage duty-paid from Romania.
 
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furnessvale

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Duty free is a con. Even before we joined the EEC it was a con. After initially buying into the con I realised what was going on and stopped buying the stuff. The savings were minimal and not worth the hassle.

As for any talk of making a special trip just to buy duty free.............. A minimum wage job will pay more handsomely when time and fares are taken into account.
 

EAD

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The elephant in the room on this is the UK set duty/tax rates on alcohol being high compared to most other European countries (plus the VAT on top). In fact, the Government's own press release on this inadvertently demonstrates this when it shows what you could save over UK high street prices e.g. "<£2.23 cheaper for a 75cl bottle of wine." Quite an interesting set of analysis/comparisons on this here
 

Robertj21a

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Given that Dover is only 1 hr 4 mins from St Pancras on HS1, quite a lot of people live near to Dover. I can forsee a desperate Southeastern with it revenue devastated by WFH running special booze trains to the ferry port. I'm not a Calais fan but theres an awful lot of attractive towns to take the misses to for lunch not far from the other side; Bologne, Le Touquet, Baie de la Somme etc

Really ? - that all sounds massively unlikely to me.
 

Gloster

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Duty free was really a case of: “Having a day out? Travel on one of our ships and you’ll be able to buy some cheap booze and cigarettes. You can’t do that anywhere else.”
 

paul1609

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Presumably you mean three taxi rides as per #46? Or, indeed, six rides.
Personally I would walk Dover 1.3 miles, Calais 1.8 miles and get the 513 bus from Etaples that meets virtually every train. Etaples to Le Touquet could however be walked in just over an hour its only 3 miles.
If you're not that adventurous Boulogne station is right in the town centre.
 

BayPaul

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Its 1.3 miles I walk it in under 30 minutes. A taxi wouldn't exactly break the bank.
But your suggestion was for Southeastern to market duty free special trains. I think that a 30 minute walk wouldn't really work in that context, especially on the way back with a full duty free allowance. If they want people to just get a taxi, then they would probably need to just market it as a special train to Dover, rather than an integrated offer.
 

furnessvale

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The elephant in the room on this is the UK set duty/tax rates on alcohol being high compared to most other European countries (plus the VAT on top). In fact, the Government's own press release on this inadvertently demonstrates this when it shows what you could save over UK high street prices e.g. "<£2.23 cheaper for a 75cl bottle of wine." Quite an interesting set of analysis/comparisons on this here
The even bigger elephant in the room is the question, " do retailers of duty free actually charge a duty free price (plus a reasonable profit) or do they load the price to make a mssive profit?"

My experience was always the latter, hence my comment "con".
 

Starmill

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£2.23 per bottle of wine seems like an entirely fair level of taxation to me to be honest. It only makes the very bottom of the wine market seem like bad value for money. And if I feel that I really don't want to pay it, I can manage to live without wine (although this year makes me question the latter!).
 

Bald Rick

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£2.23 per bottle of wine seems like an entirely fair level of taxation to me to be honest. It only makes the very bottom of the wine market seem like bad value for money. And if I feel that I really don't want to pay it, I can manage to live without wine (although this year makes me question the latter!).

The French do have excise duty on wine, it’s just not very much - about 3p a litre compared to our nearly £3. They do however charge VAT at 20% as we do.

In my experience, though, what makes the difference in wine prices is the buying power of the supermarkets. French supermarkets do have wine at £3-£4 a bottle, but not much, and you wouldn’t want to drink it. However they have plenty of lower mid range wine for £5-£8 which you would be paying more than double for over here. At the top end, prices are comparable. Conversely, non-French wine is typically cheaper in U.K. supermarkets than France, principally because the French sell so little of it they don’t have the buying power Our supermarkets do.

The duty free shops on Ferries and Eurotunnel are not going to have the buying power to match the supermarkets, and therefore the lack of duty will simply be offset. For wine it will be as now - ie broadly cheaper in Tesco and Sainsbury’s than duty free. Same for beer.

Spirits and tobacco will be different. But quantities are sufficiently limited that it won’t be worth anyone’s while to make a trip specifically for it.

A thought has come to mind, and apologies if this has been mentioned up thread. This will put a big dent in Eurotunnel day trip traffic. When you are spending £50 return + petrol to bring back a couple of hundred bottles of wine it made sense. Not now you can only bring back 24.
 
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