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E-scooters could be legalised and extra funding for cycling

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Mojo

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Not sure if this is better in another forum or even an existing thread in this forum, but today’s Times reports that the legalisation of e-scooters may be rushed through as part of government plans to avoid traffic chaos as and when the economy gets going again but social distancing puts limitations on how many customers can be conveyed by public transport.

In addition, £250 Million extra to be made available for cycling facilities. Not sure how much this will get you given the £47 Million price tag of the East <> West route in London.

Electric scooter trials will be fast-tracked as part of a bid to get people back to work using alternatives to public transport after the lockdown.

The government will bring forward trials of e-scooters to next month. Grant Shapps, the transport secretary, will also announce plans to invest £250 million in cycle lanes...
 
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muz379

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Im not sure about e scooters , I mean I certainly would not want to use one on a potholed road the wheels are too small , and I think some of them are too fast and dont have suitable braking systems to be used on pavements .

But more money for cycling provisions can only be seen as a good thing . Even before this situation we really did need to invest in better cycling provision . The more traffic free cycling infastructure the better because it seems unlikely we are going to be able to shift the tide on drivers opinons towards cyclists and the perspective out there among people considering cycling is that it is dangerous . Most of my current cycle route to work is on segregated cycle paths , and I am hopefully moving house soon and much of my prospective route when I move is also off road which is one of the reasons why I will cycle to work as much as possible . Coupled with the fact that I can get a tax free bike on the bike to work scheme .
 

Bletchleyite

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I certainly think e-scooters are ideal for the MK Redways and would love to see them allowed here, even though I'd probably prefer to stick with the humble bicycle myself.
 

Non Multi

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I hope that specific guidance for their own safety will be given in the Highway Code for users of e-scooters, if they are made legal.
 

Bletchleyite

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I hope that specific guidance for their own safety will be given in the Highway Code for users of e-scooters, if they are made legal.

They are basically the same in risk terms as bicycles.

Perhaps mandatory cycle-type helmets (due to them being powered) and not to be ridden on pavements (i.e. only ridden where bicycles are permitted) but other than that what do you suggest?
 

Non Multi

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They are basically the same in risk terms as bicycles.

Perhaps mandatory cycle-type helmets (due to them being powered) and not to be ridden on pavements (i.e. only ridden where bicycles are permitted) but other than that what do you suggest?
For example, they brake at a slightly slower rate than bikes, so a rider needs to be more alert to the road or path ahead, e.g. at a busy junction. Novice users should ideally familiarise themselves with the acceleration and braking characteristics away from the public highway, mainly for their own safety.
 

Mojo

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I’ve been on a few of the e-scooter hire schemes in the USA. Their small wheels probably make them more vulnerable to bumps and damage in the roads; in the USA where the pavements are made up of large slabs and have a dip between the sections you really feel it when going over these.
 

Bletchleyite

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For example, they brake at a slightly slower rate than bikes, so a rider needs to be more alert to the road or path ahead, e.g. at a busy junction. Novice users should ideally familiarise themselves with the acceleration and braking characteristics away from the public highway, mainly for their own safety.

Do they? It's easy to jump off and near enough stop dead if you need to, unlike a bicycle. Road bikes have notoriously poor brakes, one reason why I've never understood why they seem to be "de rigeur" in London rather than practical, well-equipped Dutch style hybrids.
 

Trackman

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I read about this months ago pre Covid 19.
I can see it working but as things stand I can't see them rushing through legalisation as there is so much involved.
 

Bletchleyite

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I read about this months ago pre Covid 19.
I can see it working but as things stand I can't see them rushing through legalisation as there is so much involved.

Listening to it now, and that seems to be exactly what they're doing. This is a tremendous opportunity, and it's heartwarming to hear it. I hope it does all work.
 

muz379

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Do they? It's easy to jump off and near enough stop dead if you need to, unlike a bicycle. Road bikes have notoriously poor brakes, one reason why I've never understood why they seem to be "de rigeur" in London rather than practical, well-equipped Dutch style hybrids.
Im not sure about jumping off and stopping dead from 15mph which is around the top speed of some of these electric scooters .

Yeah I never got the thing about road bikes being so popular for commuting either , I have a road bike and a hybrid, the seating position alone on the hybrid is far better for commuting even if both had the same braking characteristics but the hybrid also benefits from discs so stops pretty good . That being said you can get mid range road bikes with discs now .
 

Non Multi

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Do they? It's easy to jump off and near enough stop dead if you need to, unlike a bicycle. Road bikes have notoriously poor brakes, one reason why I've never understood why they seem to be "de rigeur" in London rather than practical, well-equipped Dutch style hybrids.
Road bike manufacturers have been keen to promote disc brakes on new models in recent years. Road bikes are faster, so are better for mixing with urban traffic speeds. The cycle hire bikes are somewhat similar to Dutch bikes, there's no shortage of them in the capital.
 

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If the schemes are run more effectively than what I've seen in major cities throughout the US and continental Europe then great. Usually e-scooter schemes leave a trail of unused / unclaimed rentals lying around city centres, empty of charge and usually sitting on pavements or in gutters. Worse when competition is added into the mix.
 

HLE

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Do they? It's easy to jump off and near enough stop dead if you need to, unlike a bicycle. Road bikes have notoriously poor brakes, one reason why I've never understood why they seem to be "de rigeur" in London rather than practical, well-equipped Dutch style hybrids.

I'd agree with that. My brakes on the road bike feel like butter.

Best braking system that I've used is the cantilever brakes on my 1990's hardtail mountain bike.

A right pain to get set up correctly compared to v brakes which is partly why they didn't survive long. But when set up properly even hydraulic disks don't stop as quick in an emergency. They used to use them on tandems instead of V brakes for this reason.

I'm all for E scooters being legalised, but it won't stop the ignorance displayed by the minority of other road users. That's the biggest danger.
 

Qwerty133

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If the government want to pay for me to obtain a bike I'll start cycling. Otherwise I have no intentions of spending a few hundred quid on something that would probably either be nicked or left at the back of the garage within a few months.
 

westv

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It's probably just me but I always think there is something slightly comical about a fully grown adult riding a scooter.
 

HLE

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If the government want to pay for me to obtain a bike I'll start cycling. Otherwise I have no intentions of spending a few hundred quid on something that would probably either be nicked or left at the back of the garage within a few months.

To be honest, there's plenty of good 2nd hand bikes to be had for a fraction of their original purchase price. They're quite simple to maintain albeit some specialist tools will be needed for some jobs. Definitely better than spending a couple of hundred on a bargain bike from Halfords/decathlon etc. which almost certainly won't have been put together correctly.
 

Qwerty133

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To be honest, there's plenty of good 2nd hand bikes to be had for a fraction of their original purchase price. They're quite simple to maintain albeit some specialist tools will be needed for some jobs. Definitely better than spending a couple of hundred on a bargain bike from Halfords/decathlon etc. which almost certainly won't have been put together correctly.
I'm sure there's usually plenty of used bikes available if you know where to look, but to buy second hand privately you need some level of knowledge as to what to look for.
 

geoffk

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If the schemes are run more effectively than what I've seen in major cities throughout the US and continental Europe then great. Usually e-scooter schemes leave a trail of unused / unclaimed rentals lying around city centres, empty of charge and usually sitting on pavements or in gutters. Worse when competition is added into the mix.
Not just e-scooters but also segways. The law relating to both of these has not kept pace with technological change. Many countries allow segways on footpaths. They are no more dangerous than mobility scooters.
 

HLE

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I'm sure there's usually plenty of used bikes available if you know where to look, but to buy second hand privately you need some level of knowledge as to what to look for.

Oh indeed - same with cars.
 

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It's probably just me but I always think there is something slightly comical about a fully grown adult riding a scooter.

The Swiss ride the kids' style ones - in a suit with a laptop clipped to the front. It looks ridiculous but is very practical - scoot downhill to work in the valley, fold it up and store under your desk, carry it onto the bus home up the hill.
 

Bletchleyite

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To be honest, there's plenty of good 2nd hand bikes to be had for a fraction of their original purchase price. They're quite simple to maintain albeit some specialist tools will be needed for some jobs. Definitely better than spending a couple of hundred on a bargain bike from Halfords/decathlon etc. which almost certainly won't have been put together correctly.

I wouldn't put Halfords and Decathlon in the same bracket there - the Hoprider range of hybrid bikes (I've got a 100 at the moment) are decent enough kit for the price and equipped with dynamo lights, mudguards, rack, chainguard etc which make cycling as a mode of transport so much more sensible. The Europeans are good at mid-priced hybrids, they're bread and butter over there, they're nothing like "bike shaped objects" i.e. 30kg £50 "full suspension mountain bikes".
 

Non Multi

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This is probably the worst time to be buying a new bike anyway, as demand is unsurprisingly high, so discounts are almost nowhere to be seen.

Whilst these Govt. schemes are welcome, without secure parking provision, bikes are very vulnerable to theft, especially in urban areas. Locking up a bike properly is a skill in itself.
 

HLE

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I wouldn't put Halfords and Decathlon in the same bracket there - the Hoprider range of hybrid bikes (I've got a 100 at the moment) are decent enough kit for the price and equipped with dynamo lights, mudguards, rack, chainguard etc which make cycling as a mode of transport so much more sensible. The Europeans are good at mid-priced hybrids, they're bread and butter over there, they're nothing like "bike shaped objects" i.e. 30kg £50 "full suspension mountain bikes".

To be honest, I wouldn't until I opened up the rear hub bearings on my triban road bike the other month. For a bike that's only done a few hundred miles the bearings had definitely not seen much in the way of grease when it was assembled.
 

HLE

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The best utility bike is one that is less attractive to thieves than the one parked next to it.

BikeRegister stickers also help.

Yes, a carrier bag on the seat is a great trick to make your bike look shoddy whilst locked up.

And I have to say Kryptonite locks. The New York & Evolution series 4 are worth more than my bike which they protect....

Well worth the investment. I bought 2 new and then 2 off gumtree for around the house - a bit of cleaning and tlc and good as new.
 

muz379

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To be honest, there's plenty of good 2nd hand bikes to be had for a fraction of their original purchase price. They're quite simple to maintain albeit some specialist tools will be needed for some jobs. Definitely better than spending a couple of hundred on a bargain bike from Halfords/decathlon etc. which almost certainly won't have been put together correctly.
I tend to agree , in terms of tools you can build up a collection over time ,its not like you will need them all from the very start . And most big cities are likely to have community schemes which teach basic cycle maintenance have workshops you can use . I know where I grew up there is such a scheme and the array of tools is impressive . Ive managed to build up a collection over time and have friends I can loan some stuff off . But if I had not already done so I would certainly make use .
 

Bletchleyite

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In Cardiff a bike is no substitute for a train for most journeys. No one is going to cycle 12 miles from Newport every day.

There are people who might, at least a few days a week.

One example of things needing solving is this. Buckingham (where a friend lives) is about that distance away from MK. But there is no way to get there from MK or vice versa (other than a really roundabout (!) route much longer) without cycling along the A421 or A422, a terrifying experience in rush hour and still not nice at other times. A decent cycleway (Dutch standard) along the length of both of those would be an excellent investment, and while you're not going to get everyone switching to bike, you would get some.

FWIW, having grown up in West Lancs, which is in many ways a bit like the Netherlands in being as flat as a pancake other than the hill on which Aughton sits, the A59 dual carriageway has Dutch style cycle provision, with a cycle lane about 2.5m wide plus a separate pavement (though somewhat overgrown in places now) on each side. The same is in place for a fair length of the main road to Southport whose number I forget. Growing up I thought this was the norm and was quite surprised when I found it wasn't. Why isn't it? It should be.
 

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In reality, over half of car trips are under 8km. If even only a section of these transferred to cycling or walking, then this would make a huge difference to traffic congestion. There is research that also states that people tend to significantly over-estimate the time taken to walk and cycle a journey.

The biggest barrier to me of cycling, is the utterly reckless behaviour of a significant proportion of motorised road vehicle operators. If safe and secure cycle routes were provided then this would not be so much of an issue.
 

westv

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Cycling also requires sufficent storage at destination and the ability to shower if needed.
 
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