e tickets and m tickets

[jrh2254]

Using the cross country app on my mobile phone I bought a return ticket for a journey wholly on a cross-country route/train. I made sure that it was an e-ticket. The e-ticket arrived in my email account and I downloaded this. A few days later I came to use the ticket and could not immediately find it in my email account so I went into the cross country app on my phone, and under 'my tickets' I could see the tickets, so I clicked on these and it asked me if I wanted to download them which I did. It then asked to 'activate them' as an m ticket?
So now I had an e-ticket and an m-ticket for the same journey/same transaction? Is this correct?
It also got me thinking that if the train manager came along and I did this when they asked for my ticket, could they say I had not activated before boarding the train? This despite having a valid e-ticket, but I chose to use the m-ticket when asked?

 

[JBuchananGB]

So the ticket was available in two formats, e-ticket and m-ticket. You mislaid your e-ticket, and opted to use the m-ticket. That is only valid when “activated” before boarding the train.

When the train manager comes along, you must show him/her a valid ticket. If you have found the ‘lost’ e-ticket, you can show it, but if not, you must show the “activated” m-ticket. If you cannot show one or the other then you will be in trouble.

Activating the m-ticket does not invalidate the e-ticket.

 

[Wallsendmag]

Interesting to say the least.

 

[Bletchleyite]

It's the same on LNR. You can use it as an e-ticket from the PDF, or you can "convert" it to an M-ticket which requires activation. Doing so does not prevent use of the PDF e-ticket.

It's a bit of a kludge that avoids the cost of rewriting the app to do it properly (like e.g. the Trainline app does).

 

[Wallsendmag]

That's not an e-Ticket then.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's not an e-Ticket then.

It's both. You get an e-ticket as a PDF by e-mail, but you can "convert" it to an m-ticket as mentioned, if you do the e-ticket still works.

 

[Wallsendmag]

That's some weird hybrid e-Tickets can be shown on a phone or printed , they cannot be activated.

 

[mawallace]

Same with Greater Anglia. Often you get a ticket emailed, and then it shows up on the app some time later.

I've never worked out the timing! As an example, purchased a ticket Peterborough to Leicester via the Greater Anglia app - the emailed ticket arrvied within minutes. It was not in the app until a couple of weeks before travel.

 

[Bletchleyite]

That's some weird hybrid e-Tickets can be shown on a phone or printed , they cannot be activated.

It is a bit weird. I can only conclude it was a cheap way to integrate it into their app without paying more to have it rewritten.

 

[TPO]

Apologies to resurrect this, but I wanted to thank to the people on here who explained what is a very odd set up!

I have just bought Advance tickets for a journey on East Midlands Railway from my home PC, I selected the "e-ticket" option and then downloaded the pdfs from the email (and printed them- they said on their website the e-ticket was valid both on phone and as print out- and print-out means that if my phone dies just before I am due to travel, I won't lose my tickets).

After that, I decided to get the EMR app as the EMR Website said that e-tickets could be "stored on the app" and I thought maybe easier to find than my phone downloads folder.

Once I had installed the app and signed in (using the same account details I created when I bought the tickets), it automatically downloaded the tickets to the ticket wallet as what (from the explanations on here) I presume is an "M-ticket" which requires activating before use.

It was indeed rather weird so I am grateful for the explanations on here, maybe it's an Abelio peculiarity?

Maybe next time I will just collect tickets from the machine like in the past!

TPO

 

[yorkie]

You can either use the m ticket or the e ticket

E tickets don't need activating

 

[AY1975]

Grand Central and Great Western offer so-called e-tickets, but you have to download their app to use them, so I presume this means that their "e-tickets" are actually m-tickets?

I expect a lot of ordinary lay passengers don't know the difference between an e-ticket and an m-ticket, though.

 

[dmncf]

If the op presents to the train manager their mobile phone showing the un-activated m-ticket they could face a penalty fare or prosecution, but if they flicked over to viewing the e-ticket email they would have a valid ticket?

Am I understanding this correctly, because the stringent requirement to activate the m-ticket sounds a bit pointless?

 

[Wallsendmag]

e-tickets and m-tickets shouldn’t be interchangeable , that’s a really bad implementation.

 

[yorkie]

Grand Central and Great Western offer so-called e-tickets, but you have to download their app to use them, so I presume this means that their "e-tickets" are actually m-tickets?

If they do not issue you with a barcode that can be shown on any device (or printed) then it's not an e-ticket.

If it can only be shown in an app and has to be activated then it's an m-ticket.

I expect a lot of ordinary lay passengers don't know the difference between an e-ticket and an m-ticket, though.

Not all staff do either.

On a recent Virgin Trains service I caught, the Guard told people they had to activate e-tickets.

 

[Joe Paxton]

Apologies to resurrect this, but I wanted to thank to the people on here who explained what is a very odd set up!

I have just bought Advance tickets for a journey on East Midlands Railway from my home PC, I selected the "e-ticket" option and then downloaded the pdfs from the email (and printed them [...] )

After that, I decided to get the EMR app as the EMR Website said that e-tickets could be "stored on the app" and I thought maybe easier to find than my phone downloads folder.

Once I had installed the app and signed in (using the same account details I created when I bought the tickets), it automatically downloaded the tickets to the ticket wallet as what (from the explanations on here) I presume is an "M-ticket" which requires activating before use.
...

That, as you state, is your presumption - what features in the app's ticket wallet might actually be an e-ticket.

If you go into the EMR app's ticket wallet, is there actually any apparent requirement to activate the ticket?

e-tickets and m-tickets shouldn’t be interchangeable , that’s a really bad implementation.

If that is indeed how things have been implemented - the above was based on the poster's presumption, rather than solid evidence.

[Edit - typo]

 

[yorkie]

There is no evidence of presumption by the original poster. Furthermore, I'm sure I've heard this from other people too.

 

[AY1975]

If they do not issue you with a barcode that can be shown on any device (or printed) then it's not an e-ticket.

If it can only be shown in an app and has to be activated then it's an m-ticket.

On Friday I travelled from Sheffield to London King's Cross via Doncaster, using the 14.51 Bradford-King's Cross Grand Central train from Doncaster. I used a so-called e-ticket (which is actually an m-ticket) downloaded to the GC app, but I couldn't for the life of me work out how to activate the ticket on the day of travel. The GC website at www.grandcentralrail.com/tickets/ticket-types/e-tickets/ shows you how to activate your ticket, but the app on my phone didn't appear to have an "activate", "enable" or "release" button even when I tried to access it on the day of travel.

I am guessing that this could be because my phone has an older version of Android than 6.0. I've recently got a new phone, but I think it's a now discontinued model that was already being phased out when I got it. The GC website says you need to have iOS version 9.0+ or Android version 6.0+, so maybe if you have an older version you can still download the app but not all of its capabilities, including m-tickets, will work properly.

So I simply showed the e-ticket notification on the app to the guard on my Northern train from Sheffield to Doncaster, who luckily accepted it without question even though it was an earlier train than the CrossCountry train on which I was booked (which would only have given me about a 10-minute connection at Doncaster).

There was no ticket check on the Grand Central train, but the ticket gates at King's Cross were in use. Had I been able to download my m-ticket, I might have been able to open the gates by swiping the barcode on the reader, but as it was I had to ask to be let through manually. If there had been a ticket check on the train, I could potentially have been treated as not having a valid ticket.

In future I had probably better stick to print-at-home or traditional paper tickets when travelling with GC, unless any other operators' websites, such as LNER or East Midlands Railway, that offer proper e-tickets will sell me one for GC.

In fact, it would appear that you can book e-tickets for GC using the LNER site. See also the thread on e-tickets on LNER at https://www.railforums.co.uk/thread...ailable-fixed-e-tickets-now-available.192080/

I have also just noticed that the Grand Central website actually says previous versions of Grand Central e-tickets were provided as PDFs which could be printed or shown on your phone. So it would appear that GC has actually switched from offering proper e-tickets to offering m-tickets or print-at-home-tickets, which is the opposite of what many other operators have done.

It would appear that CrossCountry offers e-tickets if you book via their website or m-tickets if you book via their app.

 

[WelshBluebird]

If they do not issue you with a barcode that can be shown on any device (or printed) then it's not an e-ticket.

If it can only be shown in an app and has to be activated then it's an m-ticket.

And if it can only be shown in an app but doesn't have to be activated? As that is what the GWR ones do. I would call them m-tickets still, but it depends on your definition I guess!

 

[Bletchleyite]

And if it can only be shown in an app but doesn't have to be activated? As that is what the GWR ones do. I would call them m-tickets still, but it depends on your definition I guess!

The GWR ones are e-tickets (no activation required), but for some reason inexplicable to man they don't send it to you by e-mail as well as having it in the app as every other TOC does.

 

[Joe Paxton]

...
It would appear that CrossCountry offers e-tickets if you book via their website or m-tickets if you book via their app.

That's incorrect - if you book via the CrossCountry app then you are offered e-tickets, if available for that flow, and definitely not m-tickets.

(Indeed if e-tickets are available for a flow, the app doesn't give the option of TOD collection - the website does though.)

 

[paddington]

Does the GWR app try to prevent screenshots?

 

[AY1975]

That's incorrect - if you book via the CrossCountry app then you are offered e-tickets, if available for that flow, and definitely not m-tickets.

(Indeed if e-tickets are available for a flow, the app doesn't give the option of TOD collection - the website does though.)

That is odd - the CrossCountry website refers to e-tickets, but it also still refers to m-tickets under mobile app, so I presume their website hasn't been fully updated yet.

The first posting in this thread also seems to suggest that XC offers a choice of e-tickets or m-tickets, unless they have withdrawn m-tickets since August.

It would also appear that Virgin offers you e-tickets if you use their website or m-tickets if you use their app, but their website seems to suggest that for some journeys both these options are available, for some e-tickets but not m-tickets and for some the other way round.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Does the GWR app try to prevent screenshots?

It doesn't appear to, though I don't have a ticket on there to try that specifically.

 

[AY1975]

Chiltern and Hull Trains also offer so-called e-tickets that are actually m-tickets.

The West Midlands Railway website seems to offer either e-tickets or m-tickets depending what journey you book, and there doesn't seem to be any rhyme nor reason as to which it offers. For example, if you try Birmingham-Hereford it offers you e-tickets, but if you try Birmingham-Llandudno using the WMR site it offers you m-tickets even though Transport for Wales only appears to offer e-tickets for its own Advance fares.

 

[AY1975]

The GWR ones are e-tickets (no activation required), but for some reason inexplicable to man they don't send it to you by e-mail as well as having it in the app as every other TOC does.

This also appears to apply to Heathrow Express and TransPennine Express.

 

[maxbarnish]

This also appears to apply to Heathrow Express and TransPennine Express.

I got one on Heathrow Express and it was emailed to me, just like a plane ticket

 

[AY1975]

Chiltern and Hull Trains also offer so-called e-tickets that are actually m-tickets.

I have just tried to book a ticket from Sheffield to London King's Cross via Doncaster using the Chiltern site. I used the Chiltern site rather than the LNER site because I have a Quidco account, and Quidco offers you 3.5% cashback if you book via Chiltern.

However, the Chiltern site only offered me a so-called e-ticket (which is actually an m-ticket) - it didn't offer me the option of a paper ticket. I went for it, and it then told me that I would need to download the Chiltern app, which I've done, but I can't for the life of me work out how to retrieve the said ticket. It says I will need to activate the ticket on the day of travel - just head to the tickets section to activate, but I can't work out how to find the tickets section.

I'm guessing that it could be that my phone is an obsolete model so the app doesn't work properly on it and some features won't work. If that's the case, then I could try contacting Chiltern to see if they can change it to a paper ticket and give me a collection reference number. Failing that, I guess I will just have to grit my teeth and accept that I've wasted £21 just to try to get a few pence cashback and put it down to experience.

I had a similar experience a few months back with the Grand Central app (which is in a similar format to the Chiltern app - see my comment number 18 above). Fortunately on that occasion there was no ticket check on the Grand Central train. The ticket gates at King's Cross were in operation, but when I showed my booking confirmation on the GC app to the gateline staff they let me through without question.

I could just chance it, but there's no guarantee that the LNER guard (if they bother to come round to check tickets) will accept it if I just show the booking confirmation on the Chiltern app.

PS: Since I posted this comment, I have discovered that if you click on the "quick buy" button on the Chiltern site it only offers you a so-called e-ticket, but if you click on the normal booking button next to it, it also offers you a paper ticket (or a self-print ticket or having your ticket posted to you - which is free unlike with most other train operators).

So be warned if you have an obsolescent make of smartphone - don't choose an e-ticket (actually an m-ticket) if booking using the Chiltern or Grand Central site.

 

[_toommm_]

I have just tried to book a ticket from Sheffield to London King's Cross via Doncaster using the Chiltern site. I used the Chiltern site rather than the LNER site because I have a Quidco account, and Quidco offers you 3.5% cashback if you book via Chiltern.

However, the Chiltern site only offered me a so-called e-ticket (which is actually an m-ticket) - it didn't offer me the option of a paper ticket. I went for it, and it then told me that I would need to download the Chiltern app, which I've done, but I can't for the life of me work out how to retrieve the said ticket. It says I will need to activate the ticket on the day of travel - just head to the tickets section to activate, but I can't work out how to find the tickets section.

I'm guessing that it could be that my phone is an obsolete model so the app doesn't work properly on it and some features won't work. If that's the case, then I could try contacting Chiltern to see if they can change it to a paper ticket and give me a collection reference number. Failing that, I guess I will just have to grit my teeth and accept that I've wasted £21 just to try to get a few pence cashback and put it down to experience.

I had a similar experience a few months back with the Grand Central app (which is in a similar format to the Chiltern app - see my comment number 18 above). Fortunately on that occasion there was no ticket check on the Grand Central train. The ticket gates at King's Cross were in operation, but when I showed my booking confirmation on the GC app to the gateline staff they let me through without question.

I could just chance it, but there's no guarantee that the LNER guard (if they bother to come round to check tickets) will accept it if I just show the booking confirmation on the Chiltern app.

So be warned if you have an obsolescent make of smartphone!

From what i can see with the Chiltern app, you'll need to log into your account, and click on the 'Bookings' tab on the tip right of the screen. I've attached a screenshot from the App Store below:

 

[AY1975]

From what i can see with the Chiltern app, you'll need to log into your account, and click on the 'Bookings' tab on the tip right of the screen. I've attached a screenshot from the App Store below:

I tried doing that, but I'm still none the wiser. It takes me to a list of my bookings, including the one I mentioned above where I'm having difficulty accessing the ticket, but I still can't work out how to access the tickets section.