E-tickets

Discussion in 'Fares Advice & Policy' started by 404250, 6 Dec 2018.

  1. 404250

    404250 Member

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    Won't these result in more fare dodging? Could someone depart from a non barrier station that does has ticket machines and then only buy an e-ticket if a guard is checking tickets?
     
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  3. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    SBB (Switzerland) say an M- or E-ticket is not valid if it was purchased after the train departed from your boarding station. The UK TOCs seem not to do this - I have heard a LNR guard actually telling people to buy one on board "as the inspectors were getting on soon" and he didn't have a ticket machine.
     
  4. Marton

    Marton Member

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    The Northern App wont sell after the train has departed, or supposed to have in some cases even if it hasn't

    More of a concern to me is how open tickets are being restricted - the ticket is irretrievable the next day but may be valid for up to 1 month.
     
  5. OxtedSignaller

    OxtedSignaller Member

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    GTR seem to be introducing them shortly, however they will only be available at gated major stations (at least at first) which will have barcode scanners. Personally I do not seem the point in them but then I suppose it will cut down on open ticket fraud as they will be scanned and validated however on train staff will presumably need to be issued scanners to check them and prevent people using screenshots.
     
  6. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    The point in them is (a) to reduce the number of station staff/TVMs required and (b) to reduce the number of complaints from people about excessive queues at said station ticket offices/TVMs.
     
  7. Wallsendmag

    Wallsendmag Established Member

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    Or to simplify fulfilment options, removing Self Print and M-Ticket and replacing them with a one size fits all option.
     
  8. trevmonk

    trevmonk Member

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    Yes, they have been installing the scanners on the St Pancras Thameslink barriers overnight for the last two nights. With a choice of paper tickets, Oyster, The Key and soon barcodes it's going to be confusing for some people!
     
  9. Killingworth

    Killingworth Member

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    Fairly early days but a lot of regular travellers seem to be using them now. Every time I travel there seem to be more who are familiar with procedures, but barriers do seem to cause delays.

    I was using the Hope Valley stopping service yesterday. The guard/conductors were diligent in working the train in both directions - not always the case. My E-ticket was glanced at and with bar code trained eyes accepted with a smile, my railcard must have been mind read as it wasn't yet visible. I wish my eyes were that good. Other E-ticket holders received the same quick scan and cheerful smile.

    It certainly meant more tickets were checked and sold. The only station on that route with barriers is Piccadilly. Clever stuff.
     
    Last edited: 5 Jan 2019
  10. Adam Williams

    Adam Williams Member

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    I don't see how this is supposed to work. If you're buying an anytime or off-peak ticket, who cares which particular time is selected in the app? It seems straightforward enough to just buy the ticket for the next service and present it for the one you're on, unless it's an Advance.
     
  11. aformeruser

    aformeruser Veteran Member

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    They could argue if you buy on board using the mobile app you were trying to avoid paying and only did so because you saw a member of staff starting to do a ticket inspection. Obviously if you're travelling on a route with a frequent Northern service e.g. Bolton to Salford Crescent you easily could buy a ticket for the next available train only to find an earlier departure hasn't yet left.
     
  12. sprunt

    sprunt Member

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    Sorry, can you expand on this? Do you mean you have to retrieve the ticket the same day that you buy it, or that it isn't retrievable until after the next day?
     
  13. A Challenge

    A Challenge Established Member

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    I think (from what I've read elsewhere) even if the ticket is valid on multiple days (for example overnight break of journey) it disappears after the first day, even though it may have further validity.
     
  14. aformeruser

    aformeruser Veteran Member

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    After you download your ticket you have to activate it which gives it a time and date stamp (similar to ticket validation in Europe), a number of hours after you activate the return section the ticket moves from the active tickets section of the app to the expired tickets section.
     
  15. Wallsendmag

    Wallsendmag Established Member

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    That’s either bad implementation,bad training or both
     
  16. 1e10

    1e10 Member

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    I’m using the XC app which is similar to others. Off peak return tickets remain under the active tab until the full month of validity has passed. The ticket can still be opened but reads “ticket used”.

    Tickets have to be activated prior to departure for them to be valid. In my opinion they are more secure than paper tickets. Once a ticket os activated it cannot be unactivated. Whereas if my paper ticket disn’t get checked or go through any barriers there is nothing to say it has been used.
     
  17. LivingBelowYM

    LivingBelowYM Member

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    Can I clarify this?

    Suppose I want to get a train from Bolton to Salford Crescent at 1000. At 0955, the app won't sell me a ticket for the 1000, but it will for, say, the 1300. Am I allowed to buy an Off-Peak single from Bolton to Salford Crecent for the 1300, activate it straight away and use it on the 1000?
     
  18. alistairlees

    alistairlees Member

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    This would be fine. The only requirement is to have activated the m-ticket before commencing your journey. By activating it you indicate your intention to travel.
    Apps / websites should allow fulfilment of these tickets up to the moment the train is scheduled to go (or, if it is delayed, up to the time it is delayed to). They are intended to be used as turn up and go retail channels.
     
  19. Wallsendmag

    Wallsendmag Established Member

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    Most of these examples are m-Tickets rather than e-Tickets
     
  20. alistairlees

    alistairlees Member

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    It might be worth summarising the different types of barcode ticket too (I am sure I have done this on another thread also):

    Note that all barcode tickets have the same barcode (which is Aztec, not QR) containing the same data, and which can be read by the same gates / hand held devices and query the same network of validation databases - it is just the fulfilment form and retail channels that vary

    1. eTicket - can be bought via website or app; delivered as both a pkpass and PDF attachment (though some TOCs / TIS are only doing one or the other); and does not require activation before travel (the customer can show the barcode on paper, in their Apple Wallet, or just in the email confirmation)

    2. m-ticket - can only be bought via an app; delivered within the app; requires activation before travel

    3. Self Print - can be bought via website or app; delivered as PDF and must be printed before travel (though commonly accepted on smartphones)

    4. Paper Roll Ticket - can only be bought from TOCs, usually on train, using hand held devices

    As Wallsendmag has said, Self Print should be phased out in favour of eTicket. m-ticket should be too really.

    Orange magstripe tickets ("Credit Card Sized Tickets" - "CCST") can also have barcode on them, though these tend to be visually scanned as with any other magstripe ticket.
     
  21. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    To me e-ticket should replace ALL other forms of fulfilment long-term, even those issued from TVMs etc.
     
  22. Wallsendmag

    Wallsendmag Established Member

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    Apart from TVM issued CCST that’s our plan
     
  23. Bletchleyite

    Bletchleyite Veteran Member

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    It needs to allow you to buy a ticket for the 1000 at 0955 if they want people to switch from ticket office/TVM/Paytrain to M-ticket. That's a big gap that significantly damages one of their intended use-cases - and the one that stands to save the railway most money.
     
  24. Wallsendmag

    Wallsendmag Established Member

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    Sorry your m-Ticket info is incorrect you can only buy LNER m-Tickets via our website .
     
  25. LivingBelowYM

    LivingBelowYM Member

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    And if you are allowed to get the ticket for a later train and use it immediately, what's the point in stopping you buying a ticket for next train?
     
  26. alistairlees

    alistairlees Member

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    I forgot that you guys do it differently. This is one of the problems: different TOCs have done different implementations.
     
  27. Killingworth

    Killingworth Member

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    That is indeed a problem at present. In 5-10 years time it should have all bedded in and paper tickets will be unusual. Hopefully the multiplicity of discount schemes, split tickets and the like will have been rationalised too.
     
  28. bunnahabhain

    bunnahabhain Established Member

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    Yes, they could, and they do. For example a colleague had a recent encounter which went something like, "Sorry I cannot apply your railcard discount as you should have purchased your ticket before boarding the train as you joined at a station with an open booking office", "Oh, I'll just buy it on my app then".

    E-Tickets are regularly not activated prior to travel. Personally I'd like to see barcodes dotted around at all stations that say "Scan this to activate your E-Ticket". If you've not activated/validated your E-Ticket BEFORE you travel it becomes impossible to do it onboard.

    You cannot normalise an irregularity anymore if E-Tickets provide a shortcut to people intent on avoiding paying the correct fare due in circumstances they have put themselves.
     
  29. PeterC

    PeterC Established Member

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    I agree, although it will make split ticketing difficult when you have to jump off the train and find a scanning point. On the other hand I think that it is time for a root and branch reform of fares anyway.
     
  30. jon0844

    jon0844 Veteran Member

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    I think people will initially be confused about where to present their ticket/card/barcode (I've seen people rubbing paper tickets on the smartcard reader!) but it won't take long for people to learn.. as long as all gatelines are consistent. But that would require RDG to have set a standard for design, so whoever makes the gate the positions would still be recognisable.

    The fact barcodes have been used to get into venues for many years, as well as when flying etc should at least mean that most users are already familiar with the idea even when they buy their first digital ticket.
     
  31. LivingBelowYM

    LivingBelowYM Member

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    Single use smartcards are often issued on paper in other countries, as is the TfL One Day Bus & Tram pass, so some people may be used to tapping into smartcard readers with paper tickets.
     

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