Early connection and Advance

[neonison]

Hypothetically - though there are strong elements of fact - if I buy an Advance ticket covering a change of trains and the incoming is early and an onward service, earlier than the one I was due to catch is there but running late, do I have to wait for my booked train (also running late) or am I valid on the one that's at platform?

Sorry if this has been done to death before!

 

[Chapeltom]

Hypothetically - though there are strong elements of fact - if I buy an Advance ticket covering a change of trains and the incoming is early and an onward service, earlier than the one I was due to catch is there but running late, do I have to wait for my booked train (also running late) or am I valid on the one that's at platform?

Sorry if this has been done to death before!

You have to catch the booked train (ones you have a reservation for), if you board the other service then you don't have a valid ticket.

You can of course ask the guard nicely, but they have the right to refuse and you won't have a reserved seat that you would on your booked service anyway.

 

[neonison]

So, even if I get home an hour later and make a claim for compensation when I could have got back on time?

 

[najaB]

So, even if I get home an hour later and make a claim for compensation when I could have got back on time?

Yes. That said, if you are able to speak with an authorised person (in practice this would likely be the Guard/Train Manager), they may give you permission to travel on the earlier train.

 

[krus_aragon]

Some years ago I'd often be travelling from Cardiff to North Wales on a Sunday morning, which generally requires a change at Crewe. The coast train was due to leave ~7 minutes after the ex-Cardiff service: an easy connection on a Sunday, but less than the 10 minute minimum. As a result, I'd be given a 53 minute wait on my advance ticket.

On one occasion I asked the guard of the unofficial connection if she'd permit me to travel. She declined, and asked me to wait for my booked service (as she was perfectly entitled to).

On the next (and last) occasion I decided to feign ignorance and boarded the unofficial connection. (I was prepared to disembark at Chester and wait for the booked service if asked, or face the music otherwise). As it turned out, the guard on this service made no note of the fact that my reservation showed 11xx instead of 10xx, and I got home an hour early.

Moral of the story: ask and you may receive, but be ready to accept the consequences of refusal. Corolary: Forgiveness may be easier after the fact, depending on how strict/particular your train's staff are.

 

[Bletchleyite]

Corolary: Forgiveness may be easier after the fact, depending on how strict/particular your train's staff are.

The problem is that there is quite a wide range of levels of forgiveness - from actual forgiveness, through charging the cheapest walk-up, via charging the Anytime Single, stopping off at a PF then heading all the way to prosecution. All of those are valid actions (subject to being in a PF area) for doing that.

Best, IMO, to ask first, then you know which it will be.

 

[duffield]

The obvious solution if you're happy with the short connection is to buy two separate tickets for the two journey legs.
However, while split-ticketing can save money on some journeys it does appear that at present on this route it would cost a few pounds more (the example I looked at cost £46 rather than £42 for one ticket).

 

[greatkingrat]

The obvious solution if you're happy with the short connection is to buy two separate tickets for the two journey legs.
However, while split-ticketing can save money on some journeys it does appear that at present on this route it would cost a few pounds more (the example I looked at cost £46 rather than £42 for one ticket).

But that would mean that if you miss the second train, your second ticket is worthless as you have not allowed the minimum connection time.

 

[Smidster]

Some years ago I'd often be travelling from Cardiff to North Wales on a Sunday morning, which generally requires a change at Crewe. The coast train was due to leave ~7 minutes after the ex-Cardiff service: an easy connection on a Sunday, but less than the 10 minute minimum. As a result, I'd be given a 53 minute wait on my advance ticket.

On one occasion I asked the guard of the unofficial connection if she'd permit me to travel. She declined, and asked me to wait for my booked service (as she was perfectly entitled to).

On the next (and last) occasion I decided to feign ignorance and boarded the unofficial connection. (I was prepared to disembark at Chester and wait for the booked service if asked, or face the music otherwise). As it turned out, the guard on this service made no note of the fact that my reservation showed 11xx instead of 10xx, and I got home an hour early.

Moral of the story: ask and you may receive, but be ready to accept the consequences of refusal. Corolary: Forgiveness may be easier after the fact, depending on how strict/particular your train's staff are.

Personally I would strongly advise against getting the earlier service and pleading ignorance - You might get lucky (as in this case) but the times when you are going to have a bad journey will far outnumber those small "victories" (not least as, at least I, would spend the whole trip worrying about it)

If there were a situation where your actual train was going to be delayed, and it was known at the time, then I would hope a guard would let you travel but you should be pro-active in seeking permission before boarding.

 

[455driver]

So, even if I get home an hour later and make a claim for compensation when I could have got back on time?

There are some on here that would ask and catch the earlier train and still claim delay repay for the train they should have been on!
You know who you are!

 

[Clip]

There are some on here that would ask and catch the earlier train and still claim delay repay for the train they should have been on!
You know who you are!

Steady on or youll get them upset.

OP - always ask but you dont have a right to do so as outlined by others above.

 

[Hophead]

Does this not depend upon the nature of the connecting service? I thought that there were '...and connections' tickets on (mainly suburban) operations, where the service shown is merely a 'suggestion'?

 

[trainophile]

The obvious solution if you're happy with the short connection is to buy two separate tickets for the two journey legs.
However, while split-ticketing can save money on some journeys it does appear that at present on this route it would cost a few pounds more (the example I looked at cost £46 rather than £42 for one ticket).

That's what I do now, to avoid a half hour wait at Crewe while watching a Liverpool train depart five minutes after I have got there. Mind you in my case the second ticket is an Anytime Day Single, so worst case scenario I can still get the one I would have been scheduled on. Costs me an extra £1.85 (with railcard) but worth it to avoid the hanging around.

 

[krus_aragon]

Personally I would strongly advise against getting the earlier service and pleading ignorance - You might get lucky (as in this case) but the times when you are going to have a bad journey will far outnumber those small "victories" (not least as, at least I, would spend the whole trip worrying about it)

In the general case, yes. I couldn't really advocate it as a default policy to anyone, but felt it was worth mentioning my experiences (and rationale).

If there were a situation where your actual train was going to be delayed, and it was known at the time, then I would hope a guard would let you travel but you should be pro-active in seeking permission before boarding.

I stress that in my case I was looking to make an unofficial 8-minute connection instead of the 68-minute connection I was booked for. There was no delay, just a reluctance to spend over an hour sat at Crewe. (Eight minutes to get from Platform 6 to Platform 9 at Crewe on a Sunday morning is ample, but officially the booking engines have to allow 10.)

On the first occasion I made the above journey, I only noticed the hour-long wait as I was pulling in to Crewe. Otherwise I may have looked-up next Holyhead departure on the boards (found the departure time matched on the minutes) and boarded quite unknowingly. This probably encouraged my approach on the third journey (after I asked and was refused on the second occasion).
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The problem is that there is quite a wide range of levels of forgiveness - from actual forgiveness, through charging the cheapest walk-up, via charging the Anytime Single, stopping off at a PF then heading all the way to prosecution. All of those are valid actions (subject to being in a PF area) for doing that.

Best, IMO, to ask first, then you know which it will be.

They are indeed, and I did what I did in full knowledge that there was a chance of being asked to disembark, or pay for a new ticket. If I were in a Penalty Fare Zone, I wouldn't have considered doing it at all.

 

[Bletchleyite]

There are some on here that would ask and catch the earlier train and still claim delay repay for the train they should have been on!
You know who you are!

I did precisely that (well, sort-of) in relation to a journey from MKC to EDI via the West Coast, as I was *forced* to travel earlier, I did not want to, and in fact it made a mess of my Sunday but was the only feasible option. I was totally up front that I did this with VT, and they paid in full (and it wasn't a £45 fob-off, it was the correct amount).

There was still a delay to my journey that wasted my time, it just occurred at the start, not at the end.

 

[455driver]

How can you claim there was a 'delay' if you started your journey earlier?